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The Armies of 40k => Necrons => Topic started by: Gutstikk on November 1, 2011, 06:31:52 PM

Title: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
Post by: Gutstikk on November 1, 2011, 06:31:52 PM
Heavy Support Discussion

This thread is reserved for discussion of the 2011 Necron Codex Heavy Support units. Please discuss other Force Organization entries in their appropriate threads. Discussion of dedicated transports can be placed either alongside the unit (where appropriate) or in the Necron Vehicle Discussion thread.
Title: Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
Post by: headfirst on November 5, 2011, 11:34:21 PM
The Canoptek Spyders are very interesting. The way they actually add scarabs to a different squad means essentially you get a free base on your swarms. Also, the statline lets them have more babies!
Title: Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
Post by: WisdomLS on November 6, 2011, 04:52:03 AM
I also really like the spyders and think we'll be seeing lots of them, great stat line for the points and scarabs are also great. The anti-psyker thing is a little short ranged but could have it's uses.

I think the doomsday ark and Doom Scythe are a little expensive but I think alot of people will be taking annihilation barge as it seems a great allrounder for not many points.

I'm unsure on the monolith, I knew it would lose the immunity to melta and it is cheaper but I still think it is just melta food, unlike landraiders it's never gonna get a cover save.
It's portal is really good but I wish it had a rule that allowed it to fire the particle whip along with the guass arcs.
Title: Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
Post by: PhoenixLord1989 on November 6, 2011, 05:58:49 AM
Seeing as you kinda have to get close to use most of your shooting, I like the monolith. Because I find it a better means of transportation then the dedicated transports are.
Title: Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
Post by: Gutstikk on November 6, 2011, 09:05:10 AM
I never had much use for the physical model of the Monolith, so I'm looking forward to some of the other options in the Heavy Support section. Spyders seem like they're still going to be my favorite but having access to a wider variety of options is always a good thing in my opinion, and I'm a fan of the new models. I'm hoping those who fielded the multiple monolith armies of old don't feel the nerf hit them too hard as things progress - benefits to the rest of the army will hopefully make up some of the shortfalls in the new Monolith rules.
Title: Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
Post by: Dark_Zadok on November 6, 2011, 01:51:48 PM
I had a game today, first time with new codex.

the Heavy's I took, were: Doomsday Ark, Monolith & 3x Spyders.
I basically used the monolith to slow approach some camping long fangs, and give them a good whip, whilst using the portal to teleport my warriors away before they got assaulted in the next turn.
I really like how you can teleport any non-vehicle unit now - don't like how mono is prey to meltas though!

My doomsday ark, sat back and unleashed - its a big gun and doesn't disappoint!

Finally the Spyders, I left them sat between the Ark & Mono, why? I expect the blasters to be targeted and wanted my spyders to be there to repair any damages, this lead to 2 questions:

1) Do spyders have to be placed together? - previously you could take 3 and let them roam seperately. I'm assuming they can't as there is no rule to say they can.

2) If all 3 have the special repairing claw, does that mean i can roll 3 dice for repairs on a vehicle? would i also be able to roll to repair the ark, and then the mono, in the same turn? ie: one spyder repairs ark, and one repairs the mono in that one turn. (thankfully this did not come up in the game)

I have heard good things about the annihilator barge, and since my command barge wasn't much of a success, i'm thinking of converting into an annilhilator barge.
Title: Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
Post by: Don on November 6, 2011, 02:39:42 PM
I'm really curious to hear what experiences ppl have with their Doomsday Barges, especially against more seasoned players. The gun is nice but they seem to be very limited by not being able to move and fire their stronger shot.

T
Title: Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
Post by: Galef on November 6, 2011, 03:01:10 PM
When you have the range of a long table edge, you don't really need to move.

I am still unsure about the Monolith.  One might be worth it, but they lost so much.

What they lost: Immunity to melta/lance
Immunity to Deep Strike Mishap*
-1 str on the Flux Arc & Particle whip
Ability to teleport units out of CC.

What they gained: Decrease in points
Ability to fire Particle Whip & Teleport a unit
Unlimited range to teleport any non-vehicle unit
Abiltiy to teleport a unit that is in Reserve (possibly even on turn 1)

There are a few smaller changes, but these are the most important (IMO).  The -1 str of the flux arc is fine when you consider that you can now fire the Particle whip every turn.  The unlimited range to teleport any non-vehicle unit makes up for not being able to teleport out of CC.

*The only change that hurt is having no immunity to DS mishap.  At least give it the same immunity as a Drop pod, its almost 3x as big for crying out loud!.

At the end of the day, though, it is the only AV14 vehicle we have and adds a good deal of firepower and mobility to the army.
Title: Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
Post by: NightMoor on November 6, 2011, 08:52:43 PM
The main thing people seem to have completely missed about the Monolith is how its Dimensional Portal actually ignores Reserve rolls. You can even bring in a unit from reserves on TURN 1. Third sentence under "Dimensional corridor". Potentially extremely useful.

The fact that it has 4 flux arcs which all fire completely independently makes it a little more useful than expected, though hardly a machine of lead-dealing death by any stretch. It'll make a nice way to hold the centre of the board while plinking down weakened units.

Title: Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
Post by: Kaiju Senso on November 6, 2011, 09:52:58 PM
In my game last night I ran 2 units of 3 Spyders (no upgrades) and a Monolith. I was to afraid to deepstrike the monolith so I placed it as close as possible and moved it towards the enemy objective, hoping to bring in one of my 3 troop choices through the protal to grab it. Now having 4 Flux Arcs is cool and all but I was never able to get to shoot more then 3. Two are easy enough to fire but you have to get the best possible angle to try and get 3. Unless you're lucky enough to deepstrike into the middle of the enemy where they will be on all sides of course. I never used the particle whip because I was trying to stunlock vehicles with the Gauss rule. In the end (turn 3 or 4) it was downed by a Chaos Dreadnought close combat weapon so even without anti-2D6, it would have died the same with either codex. I did realize during the game that I could bring in a unit from Reserves without rolling and it made me wish I planned my reserves better to try it out. Overall I don't expect the Monolith to surive long enough to get in range of objectives to bring units to them. It might be better to stay in the back field but under 24 inches away from the enemy and pull troops choices back to your home objective near the end of the game.

The Spyders were very useful. They added scarabs to my two units and held off some Chaos Dreadnoughts and Demon Princes but still died pretty easily to these units. Having more wounds and higher WS/BS is amazing! Especially since they are even cheaper points wise. Being forced to combine them into a squad is both good and bad in some instances. Sometimes I like having multiple units for the enemy to worry about but less kill points and a stronger squad overall is still nice. I feel Spyders are cheap enough to throw at the enemy but they still can't ignore a Monstrous Creature bearing down on them.
Title: Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
Post by: Tomb Spyder on November 6, 2011, 10:35:04 PM
With all the mech in the game, it seems it would be hard not to field 3 Doomsday Arcs.  They even have side guns for protection!  Position them tactically so 2 of the 3 can always have line of sight to anything across the table and You are set.  The big problem I see here is Drop Pods/Deep Striking Units with Melta-guns.  How do you protect these things from that?  To me, the game has turned into who has the bigger guns, and who can blow up armor faster.  Melta-guns seem to be in abundance in everyone's army.  Maybe a 5 man squad of Warriors could hold off a 10 man Drop Pod squad until help arrives?

As for the rest of the heavies?  Ill pass.  Perhaps a Monolith here and there, but once again....with everyone having meltas now, you have to give it some protection.
Title: Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
Post by: Galef on November 6, 2011, 10:47:27 PM
I plan on fielding 2 Doomsday Arks and a unit of 2-3 Spyders in my army.  On occasion I might drop the Spyders for a Monolith.
Title: Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
Post by: Shas'Oink on November 7, 2011, 05:37:34 AM
I've been reading in places that the Monolith has been nuked now... but having been reading through the codex I think that they are still pretty useful.

yea, okay, they lost immunity to melta, but really that is the only real thing that has hit them... I can see a bunch of ways for them to be useful. With all the other nice hcoices, I doubt you will see a massive horde of monoliths any more but they are still useful. They still form the only AV14 vehicle the Necrons have... and none of the others have melta immunity, so it is definately not worse off compared to them!

The unlimited range unit teleport is probably the most beneficial thing... AND, lets not forget that it ALWAYS counts as stationary for shooting. What I read from this is that I can deep strike a monolith, pull a unit through the portal AND fire all its weapons all in one go! That is a lot of activity!

I think that this is a case where people get dissapointed because their mega unit is no longer as hard... forgetting that they also have a host of other mega units to choose from!
Title: Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
Post by: Lord of Winter and War on November 7, 2011, 06:14:20 AM
I am liking the option for the spyders which gives the army (finally) some measure of anti-psyker defense. I always used them in my army before and I'll do so again. The fact that heavy destroyers are no longer heavy support means I now have more wiggle room for heavy support units. The Doomsday barge looks almost a little too enticing.

The Monolith teleportation shenanigans just got better, the lack of immunity to double-rolls is going to be annoying, but the positive changes outweigh the negatives. The plane with the DeathRay looks utterly amazing however.
Title: Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
Post by: g00gle5 on November 7, 2011, 06:41:50 AM
To my memory (I'm at work), my favourite buff for the Monolith is that it can teleport any non-vehicle Necron unit. Thinking about it now, what's the list of things the Monolith can/can't teleport? Scarabs are the first ones that came to mind for me but I'm starting to wonder about C'tan Shards and Spyders?

Are those allowed or not?

The Doom Scythe is brilliant but, along with the Monolith, I worry about its size and if Deep Striking it into a good location could be an issue.

I was thinking earlier that a lot of Spyders, with small units of Scarabs to boost under the advance of the Stormlord or a Monolith wall could be a really nasty proposition...



 
Title: Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
Post by: PhoenixLord1989 on November 7, 2011, 08:37:28 AM
The unlimited range unit teleport is probably the most beneficial thing... AND, lets not forget that it ALWAYS counts as stationary for shooting. What I read from this is that I can deep strike a monolith, pull a unit through the portal AND fire all its weapons all in one go! That is a lot of activity!

This is what I thought as well but my friend who I played against said since you have to use the portal at the start of the movement phase you wouldn't be able to use the portal the turn in which it deep strikes since both are at the start of the movement phase.

To my memory (I'm at work), my favourite buff for the Monolith is that it can teleport any non-vehicle Necron unit. Thinking about it now, what's the list of things the Monolith can/can't teleport? Scarabs are the first ones that came to mind for me but I'm starting to wonder about C'tan Shards and Spyders?

Are those allowed or not?

Any friendly non-vehicle Necron unit that is not in combat can get teleported. So basically everything in our codex that in not in assault or have an AV, even your team mates units as long as they are Necrons.

One tactic that would be useful is to take 3 spyders and 2 monoliths and give all the spyders fabricator claw arrays and just teleport the spyders every time you need them to repair your monoliths lol. Since the portal is in the movement and the repair is in the shooting it will work quite well... in theory.
Title: Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
Post by: Shas'Oink on November 7, 2011, 09:32:08 AM
The unlimited range unit teleport is probably the most beneficial thing... AND, lets not forget that it ALWAYS counts as stationary for shooting. What I read from this is that I can deep strike a monolith, pull a unit through the portal AND fire all its weapons all in one go! That is a lot of activity!

This is what I thought as well but my friend who I played against said since you have to use the portal at the start of the movement phase you wouldn't be able to use the portal the turn in which it deep strikes since both are at the start of the movement phase.

It was my understanding that reserves were done at the start of the turn.  :-\ This would be before the movement phase. 
Even if this was not the case I would still maintain that it IS possible to do both things... If the argument is semantic (being that you have done somehting so it is no longer the start), then I would have to ask how it is possible for an eldar farseer to cast more than one psychic power at "the start of the turn"  ???
Title: Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
Post by: Kaiju Senso on November 7, 2011, 11:02:45 AM
Don't forget O:nk that the Monolith is also huge thus deepstriking without any means of reducing scatter or the old rule of pushing enemy infantry out from under it makes it dangerous most of the time.

The unlimited range unit teleport is probably the most beneficial thing... AND, lets not forget that it ALWAYS counts as stationary for shooting. What I read from this is that I can deep strike a monolith, pull a unit through the portal AND fire all its weapons all in one go! That is a lot of activity!

I think that this is a case where people get dissapointed because their mega unit is no longer as hard... forgetting that they also have a host of other mega units to choose from!
Title: Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
Post by: Blood Hawk on November 7, 2011, 12:25:29 PM
On Saturday I was looking over the the necron codex and the monolith rules for reserves.  If you are playing a mission with DOW deployment does that mean your monoliths HAVE to deep strike?
Title: Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
Post by: Shas'Oink on November 7, 2011, 12:29:49 PM
On Saturday I was looking over the the necron codex and the monolith rules for reserves.  If you are playing a mission with DOW deployment does that mean your monoliths HAVE to deep strike?

That would probably only be the case if the Monolith is wider than 6". I can't recall off the top of my head... though if it is (and something tells me it will be coming close!) then Kaiju Sensos comment above needs also to be taken into account... deep strikign somethign that big could be potentially dangerous!
Title: Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
Post by: Galef on November 7, 2011, 12:57:17 PM
Has anyone else noticed that since Spyders are no longer a "unit that always consists of 1 model", that IC's can now join them?
Title: Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
Post by: Changeyname on November 7, 2011, 12:59:03 PM
I think the confusion here is in the Dow rules
Remember that the units which are not deployed and arrive on turn 1 are NOT reserves, they only enter reserves if you declare they're going to during deployment

Hence the Monolith's rule about only being able to Deepstrike if kept in reserve doesn't come into play unless you CHOOSE to let it by specifically placing the Monolith into reserve

Oh and the thing is EXACTLY 6" wide/deep/long whatever so it'll be able to move onto the board unless the entire table edge is blocked horrendously
Title: Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
Post by: Kaiju Senso on November 7, 2011, 05:24:42 PM
Has anyone else noticed that since Spyders are no longer a "unit that always consists of 1 model", that IC's can now join them?

Ya know, I did notice this in my first game but couldn't think of what type of HQ to add that would really benefit from the squad (or the other way around). I guess if you just wanted a big bad ass body guard unit then it would be great with a close combat set up. Perhaps with a Destroyer Lord you could use the Spyders as a temporary meatshield unit until you got close enough to strike, but honestly I feel Wraiths with Whip Coils would be a better unit. The Overlord will probably just get picked out in combat because it's a bit easier to kill with a lower toughness.

Then again you could equip the Spyders with Particle Beamers and then use a Lord to add a touch more shooty? Or attach Obyron and teleport around the battlefield, shooting up the enemy with the blast weapon and going for the assault next turn?
Title: Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
Post by: sephiroa on November 8, 2011, 02:29:00 PM
i like every heavy choice, i'm cool with the nerf from the mono, but for a mono to get a mishap because he hits a models?? imho, that squad should take a dangerous terrain test for every model under it, on a 1, it was not fast enough to evade it and died. i mean c'mon, a big heavy tank like that, to get a mishap?
Title: Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
Post by: Zilverscale on November 9, 2011, 09:47:29 AM
Am at work so this will go from top of head.

I dislike the monolith now...and am glad I did not buy 1 2 months ago.
The pro's it has now just simply do not weigh up against the cons....I mean DS mishaps and no more extra damage dice protection.
It's just to big a drawback for it's points.

The deathray (forgot name of vehicle)...do not like it, the ray is extremely short range and it does not have quantum shielding (if memory serves me right)
For it's price tag it should have gotten the shielding.

Spyders...will have to try them out ;)
Title: Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
Post by: Kaiju Senso on November 9, 2011, 10:01:53 AM
The death ray isn't that short of range. You add a random number of  inches to your standard pistol range. It could be crap but could also be huge!

I see the monoliths weakness as just standard land raider now but cheaper and can bring units to it from anywhere! Even off the table! But ya havin such short range means its probably dead quickly if you don't prepare to take out those melta weapons
Title: Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
Post by: Zilverscale on November 9, 2011, 10:21:39 AM
The death ray isn't that short of range. You add a random number of  inches to your standard pistol range. It could be crap but could also be huge!

I see the monoliths weakness as just standard land raider now but cheaper and can bring units to it from anywhere! Even off the table! But ya havin such short range means its probably dead quickly if you don't prepare to take out those melta weapons

Ok so you, on average, add +/- 10 inch to your shot tha will only work if the enemy is nice and lines up his units.

The best way to use it is to make a ----- line instead of a straigth ongoing line.
(if I read it correctly you can so this with the weapon)
Here it suffers from the range drawback
Title: Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
Post by: Kaiju Senso on November 9, 2011, 11:00:50 AM
The best way to use it is to make a ----- line instead of a straigth ongoing line.
(if I read it correctly you can so this with the weapon)
Here it suffers from the range drawback

Not sure I understand what you mean here. You pick one point within the base range of the weapon, then another point a rolled number of inches away and make a straight line between the two?

Now lets say you rolled a solid 12 inches and can place it up to pistol range away from the gun, those 12 inches can hit an entire row of artillery for example. If you're playing against a heavy mech opponent (rhino rush or something similar) then they will probably be forced to deploy most of their vehicles close together at the start of the game so the quicker you can get the shot off the better. But to save the vehicle from getting kit early before it can shoot, deepstrike is the obvious option.
Title: Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
Post by: Benis on November 9, 2011, 11:04:32 AM
The best way to use it is to make a ----- line instead of a straigth ongoing line.

What do you suggest by this? The line is a straight line between two points so how could you not make it a "straight ongoing line"?
Title: Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
Post by: Zilverscale on November 9, 2011, 11:08:21 AM
The best way to use it is to make a ----- line instead of a straigth ongoing line.

What do you suggest by this? The line is a straight line between two points so how could you not make it a "straight ongoing line"?

What I mean is that I interpeted it as that it works like the Hellhound flame cannon,
You have X standard range, within that range first point goes.
You roll XdX to get the range you can put your second point.

So with a battlefield units are usually lined up besides eachother and not behind echother.
So putting the point to left or right of initial point would be best.
Title: Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
Post by: Kaiju Senso on November 9, 2011, 11:12:15 AM
What I mean is that I interpeted it as that it works like the Hellhound flame cannon,
You have X standard range, within that range first point goes.
You roll XdX to get the range you can put your second point.

So with a battlefield units are usually lined up besides eachother and not behind echother.
So putting the point to left or right of initial point would be best.

Correct, it does work like the Inferno Cannon but doesn't have the limit of the large end must be further from the tank then the small end (template) so you could shoot the Death Ray forward X inches and then drawn the line perpendicular to that if you really wanted.

I see the Doom Scythe as trying to flank and shoot at the enemy's side in which case you would probably aim the line straight out from the vehicle.
Title: Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
Post by: Benis on November 9, 2011, 11:24:07 AM
What I mean is that I interpeted it as that it works like the Hellhound flame cannon,

Well that is a lot clearer than the previous sentence. Basically make the damage line perpendicular to the range line. I thought you suggested something with gaps or some sort of strange thing. ;)
Title: Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
Post by: Zilverscale on November 9, 2011, 11:35:41 AM
What I mean is that I interpeted it as that it works like the Hellhound flame cannon,

Well that is a lot clearer than the previous sentence. Basically make the damage line perpendicular to the range line. I thought you suggested something with gaps or some sort of strange thing. ;)

lol

Well if you field 3 and they move up as a front ;) then you can make some nifty math equations :P -X etc etc ;)
Title: Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
Post by: Idaho on November 12, 2011, 12:43:58 PM
Necrons are an army which can get their Doom Scythes firing with some consistency.

Solar Pulse is cheap and can (should) be in every army. It creates a situation a model can move forward and hopefully be out of range from a whole bunch of enemy fire and then in the 2nd turn unleash it's fire with a healthy  move and  range.

Plus you can bet your opponents will want to fire their anti-light vehicle firepower at 10 Scarabs about to charge their vehicles, to cause instant death on them quickly. That means a Doom Scythe might just get into range to fire...

Or deep strike it?

We don't need the weapon stats. We know what it can do
Title: Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
Post by: SeriousCallersOnly on November 12, 2011, 02:33:10 PM
Anyone else played with the Annihilation Barge yet? wondering which secondary weapon to go for.
Title: Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
Post by: PhoenixLord1989 on November 12, 2011, 10:16:08 PM
I think I am set with taking 3 squads of 3 spyders and give 2 of them the 2 different abilities for wound allocation along with 3 squads of 10 scarabs. That way i'm pumping out 9 scarabs a turn is just nasty.... Though I don't know where i'm going to get the money for this idea since the new spyders are going to be a pretty penny not to mention the scarabs lol.
Title: Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
Post by: Kaiju Senso on November 12, 2011, 10:31:15 PM
9 Spyders is a little much... especially with one of each upgrade in the squad. I tried 2 squads of 3, basic, and they did ok but I found my list a little better if I traded some Spyders for a little more ranged support. Plus if you use up all your Heavy slots on Spyders, you lose a lot of your best firepower. If the Spyders could make new units like the Tervigon, it would be a little more viable in my book. You can only have 3 units of Scarabs on the table, mind you they might be freaking huge XD
Title: Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
Post by: Gutstikk on November 12, 2011, 11:15:15 PM
With the new codex even a close combat oriented army needn't rely solely on tomb spyders. You can still do some nasty steamrolling with them though. And they synergise with scarab swarms much better now since they can put a small squad over its original quantity; you really shouldn't feel like you have to pump points into a big scarab unit anymore so long as you've got spyders in the list.
Title: Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
Post by: syth773 on November 14, 2011, 05:07:37 AM
yea, the way I see it, if you are taking spyders in your list and are taking scarabs, plan out how many scarabs you want, then take 1 less scarab for each spyder as you'll be fielding.  essentially a big discount on your spyders.

The reason I personally think spyders are so awesome is that they are only 10 more points than a lychguard or pretorian.  with +1T, +1S, +2 wounds, MC status and the ability to pop out scarabs they are a steal.  sure their WS and BS are a little lower but I don't plan to take their particle beamer as it is so expensive, and they will still hit anything less than 7WS on a 4+.

10 lychguard is the same cost as 8 spyders (the spyders are actually cheaper than them if you factor in at least 1 free scarab), the only reason I don't buy tons of these things is that they are in probably the most competative army slot, heavy, competing with the monolith, annihalation barge, doomsday ark and death scythe, all of which I consider excellent vehicles.

I think I'll probably be getting 3 more spyders to add to my current 3 at some point, they will be very good in low point games, letting my focus on infantry and having them provide my close combat power.
Title: Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
Post by: WilliamT on November 29, 2011, 10:50:16 AM
Just finished reading the codex.  Thoughts on Heavy Supports: Doom Scythes look great on paper!

IMHO, the Doom Scythe appears to shine the brightest.  It is begging to be fielded in triplets in a game that is over 1500 points.  The other Heavy Support choices to me are red herrings.

I have not used these yet (because no models offered), but would like the opinions of seasoned players who have played them using proxied models.  What is your battle experience?

a) Do they work Deep Striking?  Given the melta-meta, it would appear they may just get 1 shot off.
b) What about using Solar Pulse as cover?
Title: Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
Post by: WilliamT on November 29, 2011, 10:54:36 AM
Doomsday Arks just does not seem practicable under 5th edition meta.  In my club, over 45% of the board is covered with terrain pieces.  Therefore, it would be hard for the Ark to shoot after 1 turn remaining stationary because it would need to get into position.

This reminds me of Tau Broadside suits without Advanced Stabilization Systems: if they move, they can't shoot.  (That's why I buy ASS for them).  Of course the Ark can move and then fire, but it would do so at a significant disadvantage.

Any seasoned players who have used the Ark here can comment??
Title: Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
Post by: Gutstikk on November 29, 2011, 06:26:16 PM
The Doomsday Ark shouldn't need to move, generally speaking. That overcomes one of its biggest problems. Park it in the back with some scarabs to push deepstrikers further away, and use solar pulses judiciously.

The Doom Scythe... I can see it messing up vehicles pretty badly, especially if you roll high on the 3d6 roll. But it's range is unreliable and this means you've got a decent chance of not being able to reach your desired target from reserves, which is the best way to guarantee you get to fire that gun at least once. It's actually a transport buster in my opinion and best suited to transports of any type short of a landraider or vehicle squadrons, which tend to be lighter in armor and open-topped (and also will get you 3 vehicles close together!). Not rolling to hit with the main gun is excellent and the secondary gun is so accurate you might as well not be rolling. It's also good for targets that dislike instant death.
Title: Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
Post by: Azonalanthious on November 29, 2011, 06:32:12 PM
I believe his point was lack of clear line of sight to his targets, meaning he has no option to use the longer range, but instead must move in order to get a shot.  Its an issue I run into as well -- 72" of range sounds great, but in practice on the tables I play on its rare you can shoot something 48" away, or sometimes even 36".  On the other hand, that also means you can generally get away with shorter range fire power like necrons without being over concerned about a gunline hammering you from a distance, so its not all bad.
Title: Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
Post by: Kaiju Senso on November 29, 2011, 06:39:49 PM
Hmm, I was under the impression that the rule book suggests 25% of the table to be covered with terrain. This is what I try to do with my home made gaming space and we randomize the table between almost every game. At least here there I can see plenty of use just parking a Doomsday Ark on the board edge and getting plenty of static shots. Sure you'll need to move eventually but if you can set up a good firing line and keep it protected, there shouldn't be a problem. Sounds like you guys have more terrain then suggested which favors the close combat armies more then they deserve in my opinion. :P
Title: Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
Post by: Partninja on November 29, 2011, 07:20:12 PM
I had the same issue with my groups tests games with the new book. We use 25% terrain and had to move quite a few turns or not have a good shot on anything. We usually grab terrain pieces off the shelf and pile them up on a table quarter (Think spearhead) until most of that area is covered. Then we spread the pieces out.

25% of a standard table would be a 3'x2' section. A LOT of terrain can fit in this space and can easily crowd a table.
Title: Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
Post by: Azonalanthious on November 29, 2011, 07:37:28 PM
huh, that is a darn handy way of determining 25% that I (and apparently no one else locally) had never thought of.  Thanks for the idea!
Title: Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
Post by: syth773 on November 30, 2011, 04:58:49 AM
it also depends on what type of terrain you use, not all terrain blocks LOS.  buildings, trees and large hills will but my game group uses a lot of flat terrain with rocks (difficult with a small cover save) or low hills that don't block LOS for most vehicles, so the board is pretty open to long range weapons.
Title: Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
Post by: Sirdrasco on November 30, 2011, 08:35:38 AM
From my play testing I found the Annihilation Barge to be a solid choice. In the performance it consistently laid 3+ hits down. And the ability in wounding monstrous creatures is reliable.
Only bad thing is the midrange on its weapon. But it has found its way into my arsenal to use.

I beleive it to be a solid choice for a Heavy Support slot.
Title: Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
Post by: Partninja on December 10, 2011, 08:31:38 PM
Even though I do not want to build a mech list (besides stalkers), I gave the A-Barges a try. While the handful of high strength shots are great, I found the mid-range combined with not having the "fast" type made it rather annoying to use them effectively. Having to sit still to fire everything was a pain. Maybe I'm just so used to my BA and Eldar where everything is fast.
Title: Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
Post by: Idaho on December 11, 2011, 04:54:58 AM
Yeah I feel a single A. Barge would be hard to get the full potential from, due to it's limited range and speed mixed with lack of target saturation.

Of course, more AV13 vehicles on the table and the better it does.
Title: Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
Post by: NightMoor on December 11, 2011, 11:51:02 AM
I've been getting great use out of a lone Barge in a foot-based army, I'll be painting up a second one as a result. The secondary gun is not particularly important, it's usually much more useful to move your 6" to line up better shots with the Tesla Destructor. 24" is not bad for both Spearhead and Pitched Battle, in Dawn of War you should generally fly 12" behind some cover, especially since with night fighting you aren't likely to see much anyways. I have missed a few shots that were really close to 24" but that's just because I'm not as used to using a 24" gun, thank god the range on it isn't longer or else it would be one of the most busted guns in 40k.
Title: Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
Post by: Idaho on December 11, 2011, 06:06:29 PM
Interesting. Thought a lone vehicle in an army would be a glutton for punishment? Or am I being too literal?

It surprises me a lone vehicle can work in a list, but in a good way! Maybe Necrons can pull it off because Heavy Destroyers and the like often suck in anti-tank due to range issues and such weapons often have the best range, plus with Wraiths and Scarabs running after people you can't always spare a bit of fire to hit a lone vehicle?
Title: Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
Post by: NightMoor on December 11, 2011, 06:21:54 PM
Between Heavy Destroyers, a C'tan, Spyders, Wraiths going up the middle and Scarabs your opponent has a lot of crucial targets to shoot at in a Necron foot army such that a lone Annihilation Barge is not necessarily the first thing to get fired at ;).
Title: Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
Post by: gangrel767 on December 13, 2011, 12:53:47 PM
I have used both 1 and 2 in separate battles and have found them great. I think you make a great point. The armor 13 becomes incredible when there are only a few guns the opponent has that realistically can pop it from range, and like you said... these guns have other more dangerous (or so perceived) targets.