News: No news is good news...

Login  |  Register

Author Topic: Weapons for Wraithguard in 8th  (Read 6610 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline papagumdrop

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Country: us
  • Even in Death we Fight
  • Armies: Eldar, Tyranids
Weapons for Wraithguard in 8th
« on: June 25, 2017, 11:46:33 AM »
Greetings all,

I am currently building an Iyanden Wraith Army for eighth and am looking for a good weapon option for them. Obviously the best answer is magnetize them, but my hands are super shaky and I suck at it. I have 3 units of five in my 2k pts army. Are the axes and forceshields worth it or should I keep them all ranged? If all ranged what mix of wraithcannons and D-Scythes? All 3 squads will be riding in Wave Serpents.

Thanks for the advice.

Offline flatworldsedge

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 59
  • Country: gb
  • Corners conceal treasures
    • flatworldsedge photography
  • Armies: Eldar
Re: Weapons for Wraithguard in 8th
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2017, 04:28:49 PM »
Hey!  I was initially determined to go with one set of axe/shield and one set of scythes.  However, I've done a complete about turn.

In terms of axe/shield vs. swords, it was the difference in cost that swung it.  Axes at three times as much is painful. I was a huge fan of the save from the shields, but figured the penalty to hit and fewer attacks couldn't be mitigated as easily as the save (e.g. by putting them in a Wave Serpent as you're doing!).

In terms of scythes vs. cannon, I will be building the models with scythes as they look much cooler to my eye.  However, I'll be playing them with wraithcannon.  (I play in a very liberal environment, will be painting up Witch Elves to count as Striking Scorpions, Kabalite Warriors as Fire Dragons, etc.).  I can't bring myself to pay more points for the scythes when they're shorter range.

Offline papagumdrop

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Country: us
  • Even in Death we Fight
  • Armies: Eldar, Tyranids
Re: Weapons for Wraithguard in 8th
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2017, 04:48:23 PM »
Thanks for the reply. I had similar thoughts on the axes. They look so damn cool and would actually benefit from the Spirit Mark of the seer. I wish the bubble just gave plus one to hit for wraith within six inches of them. That would be way more usable.

I assembled one unit today with cannons, definitely going to do one unit of Scythes, maybe two. I just need to look at the rest of my army and see how much more anti tank, big thing weapons I have and if I would miss the extra punch of more cannons.

Cheers

Offline Partninja

  • Warlock
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2731
Re: Weapons for Wraithguard in 8th
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2017, 05:39:07 PM »
Axe/Shield is just not worth it.

A unit of 5 with ghostswords is a really nice assault unit when combined with a spirit seer to cast enhance on them. Plenty of attacks, that will hit more often than not.

Scythes vs Cannons depends. Scythes are a shorter range, sure, but don't forget you can advance and fire it, and still auto hit. Scythes will net a lot more hits than cannons. Depends what you're shooting at as they're meant for different things.

Offline magenb

  • Aspect Warrior
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2162
  • Country: au
  • I *LOVE* 40k Online!
Re: Weapons for Wraithguard in 8th
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2017, 05:50:31 PM »
Really doesn't matter, most people are very aware at how expensive this hobby is and if they have been in it long enough, know that every edition the weapon option change as far as which is the optimal loadout. Just as long as you let your opponent know what the load out is, then you should be fine.

Having 1 unit of ranged and 1 of CC is nice to have and makes life a little simpler and lets face it looks cool on the shelf :)

Magnets on very small things like Eldar infantry are a right pain and frankly tend not to be worth it, however their heavy weapons are not too bad and are handy. Windriders are really easy to do.



Offline Partninja

  • Warlock
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2731
Re: Weapons for Wraithguard in 8th
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2017, 08:41:53 PM »
They're not bad to magnetize since you have two flat surfaces to drill your holes for. 3mm ones should work pretty well.

Offline Galadhar

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 499
Re: Weapons for Wraithguard in 8th
« Reply #6 on: July 7, 2017, 05:14:08 PM »
Thinking about this myself as I'm putting together some wraithguard.

The Sythes look really good. Espically for auto-hitting with overwatch and their ability to fall back from combat and shoot. The extra range on the cannons is nice and the d6 damage makes them look pretty good takling for vehicles and monsterous creatures. Do you think the points are about fair for them?

Offline Saim-Dann

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 852
  • Country: au
Re: Weapons for Wraithguard in 8th
« Reply #7 on: July 7, 2017, 08:50:21 PM »
G'day Pupagumdrop!
Thank you for asking this question as I'm building my first group of WG myself. Will learn a lot from your thread... Thanks again and be well!

Offline Tweedz

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 234
  • Country: 00
  • Death is only the beginning.
Re: Weapons for Wraithguard in 8th
« Reply #8 on: July 7, 2017, 09:54:37 PM »
Thinking about this myself as I'm putting together some wraithguard.

The Sythes look really good. Espically for auto-hitting with overwatch and their ability to fall back from combat and shoot. The extra range on the cannons is nice and the d6 damage makes them look pretty good takling for vehicles and monsterous creatures. Do you think the points are about fair for them?

I have not yet used cannon's in this addition, but I can say scythes are simply brutal. They are worth every single point.

Offline Partninja

  • Warlock
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2731
Re: Weapons for Wraithguard in 8th
« Reply #9 on: July 7, 2017, 11:37:16 PM »
Cannons, Scythes and ghostsword setups are fairly priced and worth putting on the table.

Axe+shield, not so much..

Offline Cavalier

  • One Archon to Rules Test Them All | High Corsair Prince of Painting | Warlock
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2585
  • Country: us
  • Corsair Prince
  • Armies: Eldar, Dark Angels, World Eaters
Re: Weapons for Wraithguard in 8th
« Reply #10 on: July 8, 2017, 07:25:29 AM »
The Axes and Shields still look really solid to me. Not only do I like them going up against MC's... but against deadly combat characters with high strength, they can take a beating. Those invuln saves are really clutch now that they have multiple wounds.

I'm actually planning on fielding them in combination with Wyches as the ultimate tarpit against deadly characters. Thinking of fast moving characters like Celestine.
Check out my army! Eldar Corsair Army

I'm also on the Splintermind Podcast! http://www.facebook.com/splintermindpodcast/

Offline Tweedz

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 234
  • Country: 00
  • Death is only the beginning.
Re: Weapons for Wraithguard in 8th
« Reply #11 on: July 8, 2017, 02:27:55 PM »
Idk... for less points than the Axe/shield you can kill something like Celestine before she ever gets to combat. My scythe-guard killed her and her two body guards in overwatch and later killed a wounded Roboute.

Axes offer 3 less strength than scythes, so you will be having to roll higher to wound
Axes have a negative to hit, where scythes hit automatically.
Each axe wound then requires a dice to figure out how much damage it did. If you roll poorly on a bunch you are screwed.
You roll once on the number of scythe attacks for the unit allowing for the easy use of a command point to try and make it better.
Scythe AP is better, all but forcing units into using an invul save

So for a staggering uptick in points, you get a moderate invul save. For those points I could take nearly two more scythe-guard or nearly 3 extra wraithblades if i wanted melee.

I really want to like axe/shield, it is what I originally build my 10 blades as, but it just not seem worth the points. At the very least you must take a spiritseer with an axe/shield group to offset negative to hit they take.
« Last Edit: July 8, 2017, 06:13:40 PM by Tweedz »

Offline Partninja

  • Warlock
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2731
Re: Weapons for Wraithguard in 8th
« Reply #12 on: July 8, 2017, 05:03:08 PM »
That's my take exactly. With the lower amount of attacks, combined with the lower WS, I don't see getting much value for the points.

Offline SeekingOne

  • Exarch
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1509
  • Country: ru
  • May Hoeth guide our ways...
  • Armies: Eldar (Saim-Hann), Space Wolves
Re: Weapons for Wraithguard in 8th
« Reply #13 on: July 9, 2017, 03:15:38 AM »
I'm also with Partninja and Tweedz on the question of Wraithaxes.

In fact, there's one biggest issue with them:

On one hand, Wraithaxes are only worth even considering IF they go after multi-wound models exclusively. Against single-wound models Wraithswords will be doing like 1.5 times more damage on average, and for almost 1.5 times less points too!
But on the other hand, we simply have other much more effective tools for killing multi-wound models at close range. Even a unit of 5 Fire Dragons will do more damage to a vehicle or a monster than 5 Wraithaxes. And if you're looking for a durability of a Wraith platform, Wraithguard with cannons will do the same damage as Wraithaxes and still for significantly less points.

Wraithaxes with their current rules could be worth considering if they came at ~200 pts for a unit of 5. To be even remotely viable at their current point cost, they AT LEAST should not have that -1 to hit penalty (although I personally think it still won't be enough). But the way they are... just no.
I fight against Chaos and for Order, because it means fighting for Life against Death. There is no other battle truly worth fighting.

"If it's not for a tournament then play whatever it is that you like. Without the pressure of having to utterly destroy your opponent it opens up alot more opportunity to have fun." - Lazarus

Offline papagumdrop

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Country: us
  • Even in Death we Fight
  • Armies: Eldar, Tyranids
Re: Weapons for Wraithguard in 8th
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2017, 10:40:27 AM »
Thanks for all the feedback folks. I built out two scythe units and one cannon unit. So far I am one and one with a victory over an artillery heavy Imperial Guard force and a narrow loss to Dark Eldar.

The scythes are pretty clutch, especially when dropped off right in the face of a combat unit. You hose them on your turn and they either have to run or charge you, getting hosed again on the charge. My Hemlock has been pretty clutch as well, thinking of cutting my single Wraithlord to juggle some points to get a second. Anyways, the wraith army has been every bit as fun to play as I hoped it would be.

Cheers everyone and thanks for all the feedback.

Offline Partninja

  • Warlock
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2731
Re: Weapons for Wraithguard in 8th
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2017, 07:21:03 PM »
Wraithguard with Scythes or Cannons are no slouches in assault either thanks to their wraith fists. Depending on the unit they're standing in front of, it can be worth while to preemptively assault, even for a scythe unit. Don't forget they can fall back and still shoot in the same turn.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2017, 07:17:02 PM by Partninja »

Offline Rhyleth

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 83
  • Country: us
  • I *LOVE* 40k Online!
Re: Weapons for Wraithguard in 8th
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2017, 06:58:36 PM »
Wraithguard are likely to be among my own next additions (avoided them when I was last playing because the 2nd Ed models were expensive and in my view not very attractive). As an old-schooler I'd favour giving them wraithcannon anyway - they also look best to me that way and I have a love of D-weapons even though they no longer do anything special.

To me the clincher is that D-scythes only deal 1 damage. One third of the time (since you roll number of attacks for the unit), they're just going to be worse than wraithcannon; conversely when it comes to damage wraithcannon will be, at worst, the same as D-scythes and 5 times out of 6 will do more damage.

Since I'm not sure why you want an S10, AP -4 weapon if you're mostly planning on shooting low-wound targets, wraithcannon seem a better option overall, especially with the 5pt point difference in their favour - but I'm willing to be persuaded otherwise, as the correct loadout will be good for me to know when I buy and assemble WG myself.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2017, 07:00:36 PM by Rhyleth »

Offline Blazinghand

  • Warlock | Master of the Ravenwing
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1249
  • Country: us
  • Die for the Emperor or die trying!
  • Armies: Eldar, Orks
Re: Weapons for Wraithguard in 8th
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2017, 07:01:53 PM »
Hmm, I think at times the D-Scythes can be better, though they are more expensive. 1/3rd of the time they are worse than the Wraithcannons, but bear in mind that 1/3rd of the time, the Wraithcannon shot misses (whereas D-Scythe always hits). My guess is that the Wraithcannon is better against big multi-wound targets like vehicles, but the D-Scythe is better against everything else (and probably isn't even that bad against vehicles), especially since effectively they are getting +50% shots since they can't miss. So it may depend on what role you want the Wraithguards to fill.
Quote from: Howard Zinn
There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people.

Offline Tweedz

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 234
  • Country: 00
  • Death is only the beginning.
Re: Weapons for Wraithguard in 8th
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2017, 07:28:21 PM »
My guess is that the Wraithcannon is better against big multi-wound targets like vehicles, but the D-Scythe is better against everything else (and probably isn't even that bad against vehicles)

That has been my experience with them.

Offline Rhyleth

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 83
  • Country: us
  • I *LOVE* 40k Online!
Re: Weapons for Wraithguard in 8th
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2017, 07:33:54 PM »
What targets do people typically deploy Wraithguard against if not vehicles? They seem overkill against typical infantry and likely fairly inefficient for their cost used that way.

 


Powered by EzPortal