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Author Topic: 10th 40KOnline UK Tournament - OFFICIAL Tournament Thread!  (Read 29822 times)

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Offline 666_Mutley_666

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Re: 10th 40KOnline UK Tournament - OFFICIAL Tournament Thread!
« Reply #140 on: July 20, 2011, 09:03:25 AM »
I don't see any problem with the badab rules being used, although i think that if some one is going to use special characters from that book, they shouldn't use special characters from other books (the ones set in 41st millennium) as it wouldn't seem right fluff wise
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Offline Tarrin the Space Marine

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Re: 10th 40KOnline UK Tournament - OFFICIAL Tournament Thread!
« Reply #141 on: July 20, 2011, 10:19:06 AM »
Are they asking about using the specific army lists in the badab books or are they after specific characters/vehicles etc?

If it is the latter i would say fine. Nearly all of the chaarcters are balanced, and the vehicles (cestus assualt ram and LR achilles aside) are fair.

I don't think the army lists in the books should not be used.
One list allows the mixing of IG and SM which i think should not be an option, purely because it can lead to cherry picking units easier (marine troops, backed up by Russ, hellhounds and basilisks for example).  The second list is really nasty, power wise, when compared to other SM lists (and this is listed in the designer notes) and the extra objective is not a fair balance for either player. It means that the people playing this game are not doing the same game as everyone else in a round.

So in short:
Characters - Yes
Vehicles - Yes
Army Lists - No
However, everything about Tarrin is unfair and should be sanctioned with extreme prejudice.

The Globals have issued a 2:1 ruling that yes, yes everything about Tarrin is indeed unfair. We have also been sullied merely by contemplating this.

Offline popsical

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Re: 10th 40KOnline UK Tournament - OFFICIAL Tournament Thread!
« Reply #142 on: July 20, 2011, 11:28:11 AM »
The whole 2 books are fine with me.
The lists are not particularly powerful.
I used to run the IG/SM mix as pre heresy, its not a cherry pick list at all.
The units available are different (in the case of the SM) and the guard units are different to IG too.
Its a fun list that certainly isn't uber, but allows a very fluffy army to take the field.
Mutley is right tho, the characters should not be mixed in with the codex characters as it will create truly sick consequences.
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Offline Unleash Mayhem

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Re: 10th 40KOnline UK Tournament - OFFICIAL Tournament Thread!
« Reply #143 on: July 21, 2011, 09:26:52 AM »
Why would it be bad to include both? In the Seige Assault Vanguard you can field both, so it seems intended. However I agree that the extra objective would be unfair on everyone so I don't think that list should be allowed.

Offline Shas'Oink

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Re: 10th 40KOnline UK Tournament - OFFICIAL Tournament Thread!
« Reply #144 on: July 21, 2011, 09:42:26 AM »
I think the idea is that the characters in the current codex represent personas from the current time line, whilst those in the Badab War book represent personas from THAT era.

The Siege Assault Vanguard list is a very different beast, and lists in general will often allow you to do things differently than individual units because they have been worked out in a particular way... For instance, an obvious example is the forge world armoured company list, which uses units within different FoC to normal.

Similarly though, I'll have to double check the actual wording in the Badab War book to see what the RAW says about inserting Badab units into standard armies etc...

Offline Zilverscale

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Re: 10th 40KOnline UK Tournament - OFFICIAL Tournament Thread!
« Reply #145 on: July 21, 2011, 12:01:14 PM »
I don't think the army lists in the books should not be used.
One list allows the mixing of IG and SM which i think should not be an option, purely because it can lead to cherry picking units easier (marine troops, backed up by Russ, hellhounds and basilisks for example).  The second list is really nasty, power wise, when compared to other SM lists (and this is listed in the designer notes) and the extra objective is not a fair balance for either player. It means that the people playing this game are not doing the same game as everyone else in a round.

So in short:
Characters - Yes
Vehicles - Yes
Army Lists - No

Would like to comment on this..even though I'm not attending. (Seeing as I was going to bring a Tyrants Legion list if I could make it ;) )

The Tyrants Legion list is balanced. Why?
- You don't get to use the nice rules from the IG in this list.
- You need to take SM troops to unlock some SM units.
- You are obligated to field a Legion Venturion from a certain points limit (crappy IC I've found out)
- You're also obligated to take at least 1 Auxilia unit as troops.

The Siege Assault Vanguard list is a powerful one true.
But it is totally balanced due to the Siege Objective. Why?
- Your opponent gets to place the objective!
- No matter the mission victory rules, if you have NOT claimed the objective (contested is not enough) or wiped out your opponent then you can never get better then a draw.
Plus is has some interresting options left out (no drop podding siege army ;) )


I don't see any problem with the badab rules being used, although i think that if some one is going to use special characters from that book, they shouldn't use special characters from other books (the ones set in 41st millennium) as it wouldn't seem right fluff wise

As to the time line thing. True they represent characters from that time era. Most of who are still around.
As to fluff wise....I've seen people put lists down with Vulkan and ultramarine special characters....how is that fluffwise correct?
As a tip...never put to much stock in fluff.
Tyrants legion is easy, it doesn't allow additional special characters (except Huron and the free downloadable one on FW site)
As to the Siege Assault list, it's not a time based list. It's more a strategic list.

But as far as going for or against FW lists...if you are going to exclude certain content then I'd advice you to also take a look at the  IA8 list. Which is also a horrendously powerfull list. (see the problem with trying to exclude certain lists, you always get pointed to another IA book etc ;) ) Or the Armoured Company list that O:nk already mentioned...some would claim that it's also an over the top powergame list.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2011, 12:05:37 PM by Zilverscale »

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Offline popsical

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Re: 10th 40KOnline UK Tournament - OFFICIAL Tournament Thread!
« Reply #146 on: July 21, 2011, 01:22:06 PM »
I have to agree with almost all Zilv has just said.
If you start banning IA lists it becomes problematic, im sure quite a few people object to many of the IA lists, so where do you stop?
The krieg artillery list can be truly horrific if spammed, the ability to lay down 9 st10 ordinance templates per turn for cheap points or the ability to use up to 6 Hades breaching drills also cheaply points wise, is very very powerful.

But i think if you state special characters must only be used in conjunction with the book they are in if it has a list in it, it should prevent odd ball situations.
These are my thoughts and opinions.
I am no more right or wrong than you or any other.
I reserve the right to agree/disagree with anything i please, as do you.
Forums are an arena to exchange ideas, not brow beat and shout down others.
Miss-interpretation of posts is common.

Offline Zilverscale

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Re: 10th 40KOnline UK Tournament - OFFICIAL Tournament Thread!
« Reply #147 on: July 21, 2011, 02:00:09 PM »
But i think if you state special characters must only be used in conjunction with the book they are in if it has a list in it, it should prevent odd ball situations.

Nice idea except it doesn't quite work that way.
Lughft is in the Tyrants Legion list.
But if someone wants to field an Astral Claws army they'd need to use the SM coedex. And according to your idea you couldn't include him in that list then....

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Offline popsical

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Re: 10th 40KOnline UK Tournament - OFFICIAL Tournament Thread!
« Reply #148 on: July 21, 2011, 02:53:01 PM »
Drat!  lol
His special rules allow him in a SM army and the legion tho. Vulcans doesnt etc.
It could still work, with better wording   ;D
These are my thoughts and opinions.
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Offline Zilverscale

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Re: 10th 40KOnline UK Tournament - OFFICIAL Tournament Thread!
« Reply #149 on: July 21, 2011, 04:20:36 PM »
I've put IA 9&10 special chars bsides the special chars in the SM codex.

So far I haven't found any powerhouse combo's.
Or better said powerhouse combo's that are better then the current mixes you can make.

Plus there is already a safeguard in the IA books.
All the chapter masters you can take disallow you to take any other chapter master named or otherwise.
So that'd rule out (from top of head) Vulkan, Marneus and Khan from the SM codex.
You also can't mix chapter masters from the IA books.

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Offline Unleash Mayhem

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Re: 10th 40KOnline UK Tournament - OFFICIAL Tournament Thread!
« Reply #150 on: July 21, 2011, 04:28:16 PM »
Vulkan isn't a Chapter Master, neither is Khan. Actually rules out Pedro and Calgar.

EDIT: All I want to be able to do is take a hero from IA that says it is an HQ choice in CSM army. Seems fair that I can take other special characters too. All I will say is I think it's a fluffy combo.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2011, 04:31:04 PM by Unleash Mayhem »

Offline Shas'Oink

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Re: 10th 40KOnline UK Tournament - OFFICIAL Tournament Thread!
« Reply #151 on: July 21, 2011, 05:53:01 PM »
Reading through the character rules I think its pretty clear that they can be used within Space Marine Armies. They clearly say the FoC they belong to wihtin Space Marine Codex Armies, and sometimes impose other restricitons (such as no other chapter masters, named or otherwise)... I'll certainly have no issue.

I've not made an opinion on the army lists... htough I would like to express my annoyance at people for re-igniting my desire to start a lamenters army...

Offline Zilverscale

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Re: 10th 40KOnline UK Tournament - OFFICIAL Tournament Thread!
« Reply #152 on: July 21, 2011, 06:36:39 PM »
Vulkan isn't a Chapter Master, neither is Khan. Actually rules out Pedro and Calgar.

lol did say top of my head ;)

htough I would like to express my annoyance at people for re-igniting my desire to start a lamenters army...

It's always good to get some stimulance for a project not started/abandoned ;)

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Offline 666_Mutley_666

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Re: 10th 40KOnline UK Tournament - OFFICIAL Tournament Thread!
« Reply #153 on: July 21, 2011, 06:50:03 PM »
I don't see any problem with the badab rules being used, although i think that if some one is going to use special characters from that book, they shouldn't use special characters from other books (the ones set in 41st millennium) as it wouldn't seem right fluff wise

As to the time line thing. True they represent characters from that time era. Most of who are still around.
As to fluff wise....I've seen people put lists down with Vulkan and ultramarine special characters....how is that fluffwise correct?
As a tip...never put to much stock in fluff.

well i suppose everybody has a different opinion, i just don't think its right to run a character from the 31st millennium in the same list as one from the 41st millennium, but thats just my opinion
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Offline Zilverscale

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Re: 10th 40KOnline UK Tournament - OFFICIAL Tournament Thread!
« Reply #154 on: July 21, 2011, 07:15:27 PM »
I don't see any problem with the badab rules being used, although i think that if some one is going to use special characters from that book, they shouldn't use special characters from other books (the ones set in 41st millennium) as it wouldn't seem right fluff wise

As to the time line thing. True they represent characters from that time era. Most of who are still around.
As to fluff wise....I've seen people put lists down with Vulkan and ultramarine special characters....how is that fluffwise correct?
As a tip...never put to much stock in fluff.

well i suppose everybody has a different opinion, i just don't think its right to run a character from the 31st millennium in the same list as one from the 41st millennium, but thats just my opinion

Actually the Badab war is M41 according to the FW books ;)

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Offline Shas'Oink

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Re: 10th 40KOnline UK Tournament - OFFICIAL Tournament Thread!
« Reply #155 on: July 22, 2011, 05:09:25 AM »
I'm not sure how we would handle the Siege Vanguard Army list. It has already been said that such an army would essentially be playing a separate game to everyone else... and this may be unduly unfair (either to the vanguard army, or their opponents). Like Zilverscale has mentioned though, I am loath to start saying that you should NOT be allowed to use this list - as we shouldn't cherry pick what to allow and what not to allow (otherwise we could just as easily ban Mephiston... or Blood Angels as a whole for whatever reasons we can think of!?)


Offline Tarrin the Space Marine

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Re: 10th 40KOnline UK Tournament - OFFICIAL Tournament Thread!
« Reply #156 on: July 22, 2011, 06:52:12 AM »
We could quite simply say that only forgeworld units can be used, not special characters or army lists.  A simple blanket decision, but ensure a fair playing field for everyone.

Of course i am sure there will be some people who will rage at this idea, but it either that or just accept anything goes and put up with the wierd, OTT and plain silly.

However, when it comes down to it, the rules as stated on the front page of this thread are clear. If its a print army then its allowed.   


However, everything about Tarrin is unfair and should be sanctioned with extreme prejudice.

The Globals have issued a 2:1 ruling that yes, yes everything about Tarrin is indeed unfair. We have also been sullied merely by contemplating this.

Offline popsical

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Re: 10th 40KOnline UK Tournament - OFFICIAL Tournament Thread!
« Reply #157 on: July 22, 2011, 08:06:10 AM »
I come to this event to have fun, and use/fight against a variable group of army lists.
The appeal of this tournie is, for many, the chance to use units and lists that most other tournies don't allow.
I think this theme should continue, and the uniqueness of the event will be preserved.
My two pence.
These are my thoughts and opinions.
I am no more right or wrong than you or any other.
I reserve the right to agree/disagree with anything i please, as do you.
Forums are an arena to exchange ideas, not brow beat and shout down others.
Miss-interpretation of posts is common.

Offline Shas'Oink

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Re: 10th 40KOnline UK Tournament - OFFICIAL Tournament Thread!
« Reply #158 on: July 22, 2011, 09:43:28 AM »
I come to this event to have fun, and use/fight against a variable group of army lists.
The appeal of this tournie is, for many, the chance to use units and lists that most other tournies don't allow.
I think this theme should continue, and the uniqueness of the event will be preserved.
My two pence.

Very well put.

In other matters, you guys who have yet to buy your ticket have about ONE WEEK left to purchase tickets at the £12 price. After this time, tickets will cost £15, and you will also be contending with tickets being available to people outside of the forum.

Don't delay...

Offline 666_Mutley_666

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Re: 10th 40KOnline UK Tournament - OFFICIAL Tournament Thread!
« Reply #159 on: July 22, 2011, 11:57:45 AM »
i agree with popsical. the badab lists might be nasty but are they any worse than the discusting leaf blower list that won last year?
« Last Edit: July 22, 2011, 03:21:33 PM by 666_Mutley_666 »
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