Topic: BFG: The hellebore and Lock on

[Apollyon, THE Black Guardian]

Ok, I've been on a couple of boards and different people have different views on the hellebore.  Some cannot stand it, some place their Prince on it!  I really cannot figure out why one should or should not use it.  Yeah, it's expensive points wish, for one frigate, but it has a lot of firepower, and if used properly, i can see how it could be devastating.  So do you guys hate/loathe it and why?
Thanx in advance
Ah'zae

[Farseer Haman-Kur]

I almost always hear how the Hellebore is bad.  I guess I could kind of see why.  You basically get an expensive Nightshade that has a Lance.  Most people are gue for 5 more points you can get a Nightshade and a Hemlock, a combo with the same amount of weapons in 2 ships. 

I haven't played yet but that is what I hear about Hellebores.  They might be interesting to use one for the Lance and Torpedos, the battery is pretty much useless.

[Wargamer]

Two Hellbores managed to inflict five points of damage on my Overlord Battleship tonight... don't underestimate them.

[Apollyon, THE Black Guardian]

Two Hellbores managed to inflict five points of damage on my Overlord Battleship tonight... don't underestimate them.

That aint bad at all.  Was that in one turn, and was any of it due to critical hits?  They obviously can't be that bad, but why therefore does almost everyone, and a visit to most boards can prove my point, dislike them so strongly.  Is it because they're too expensive, 'cause I know GW would have extensively play tested them for points costing purposes....hmmmm.
Is it because their for the ultimate in connoisseur gamer, more than the average Eldar player, because they have to use the table top to their advantage better than usual?
Thanx
Ah'zae

[Eagle of the Stars]

Two Hellbores managed to inflict five points of damage on my Overlord Battleship tonight... don't underestimate them.

 You are the first person who hasn't spit out death and damnation when someone mentions 'Hellebore'.

Now, I wouldn't put my prince on one by any means (your not allowed to anyway), and they aren't the prettiest thing in the fleet. But lets not ignore the fact that they have a good chance of taking out about two enemy escorts per turn, possibly more hits if the enemy is all bunched up. That's not even mentoning the havoc it creates against a singled out capital ship (as our friend found out the hard way last night).

[Wargamer]

That aint bad at all.  Was that in one turn, and was any of it due to critical hits?

One turn, no crits. It was all down to those bloody Pulsar Lances...

They obviously can't be that bad, but why therefore does almost everyone, and a visit to most boards can prove my point, dislike them so strongly. 

Two reasons spring to mind:

1) Expensive.
For 75pts, they don't look that good (on paper), and most people favour taking Nightshades and Hemlocks (you can get one of each for just 5 points cheaper...). Combined, these two ships have the same firepower as a Hellbore, but are faster, and harder to destroy (you've got two ships to blow up!).

Normally, when I get Hellbores in sight, they go down. Fast. Eldar ships just cannot take a pounding, and due to its impressive armament, the Hellbore is a priority target.

2) Hitting Power.
While the weapons batteries are laughable, the Pulsar Lance is not. Two ships will, on average, score about 3-4 hits. Put them on Lock-On orders, and that goes up. Throw in 2 Torpedoes each, and you've got a heck of a lot of firepower hitting the enemy. Anyone who has been on the receiving end of a Hellbore squadron when they're Locked-On won't forget it in a hurry, and so hate them through fear.

[Farseer Haman-Kur]

I guess its down to personal opinion.  I may try using them in my fleet in the making.

[Apollyon, THE Black Guardian]

On the topic of Lock on, I'm sure this has been asked before, but I won't be able to find it  , can an eldar ship go on lock on and turn in it's ordnance phase?  I looked in the BBlueB and it said under lock on that a ship cannot turn in it's movement phase.  Does this extend further for the Eldar, I did look under the Eldar movement section and I saw no restriction, but it may have been stated in the Annual 2002, one of the BFG mags or in Armada, non of which I have .  If Eldar can turn in the ordnance phase, then that'll make life much easier....if they can't then...I suppose I'll have to live with that and work round it.
Thanx in advance
Prince Ah'zae

[Wargamer]

I think the Eldar are a special case.