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Author Topic: Seriously Games Workshop? What's in a Name?  (Read 9615 times)

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Offline Chuckles, The Space Marine Clown

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Re: Seriously Games Workshop? What's in a Name?
« Reply #40 on: February 11, 2013, 08:48:05 AM »
Publish a story with the term 'space marine' and have GW legal interfere with your lawful commercial enterprise.  Don't hate the player, hate the game.

Wear a short dress and get raped.  Don't hate the player, hate the game.

Couldn't have put it better myself
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Offline Arquarian

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Re: Seriously Games Workshop? What's in a Name?
« Reply #41 on: February 11, 2013, 09:05:44 AM »
I thought this might happen.


I'm not trying to dismiss the outcry nor am i trying to justify GW's actions. All I am saying is that GW are behaving exactly as you would expect them to behave.  This doesn't make it right and I'm not suggestion it does but legally speaking GW has done nothing wrong.  The perceived morality of the situation is a completely different story.


Amazon may well have reacted to the outcry and reinstated the ebook for purchase but I bet your a shed load of money they sought council before doing so.


It is of course right that we, the little people continue to keep tabs on this sort of behavior and vent as best we can through the interweb and other media.  However I maintain that this is a storm in a tea cup.


Underhand. I 'm not sure I agree with nor appreciate your crass and quite disturbing analogy. The two situations are poles apart.

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Re: Seriously Games Workshop? What's in a Name?
« Reply #42 on: February 11, 2013, 09:36:02 AM »
I don't think anyone here is disagreeing that this sort of thing is par for course with GW, but as you yourself happily accept, that doesn't make it right. "We didn't break the law" is a common defence among large corporations when dealing with these sorts of allegations, and while I can't speak for anybody else, as far as I'm concerned I find that "not actually criminal" is kind of a low bar.

I think it's quite likely that Amazon sought counsel before reinstating the book. I think it's equally likely that counsel told them "Games Workshop haven't a leg to stand on".

It may be a storm in a tea cup, but I'd like to think I'm permitted to focus on more than one issue at a time. Was this a life-changing scenario for anyone involved, including the author? No. Was it worth getting het up about? Absolutely.

I guess all in all while I can't disagree with your assessment, I don't really understand why you felt the need to state it.

As for the analogy, I don't see how the situations are poles apart. The underpinning argument in both cases is pretty similar; "don't be annoyed at the person who screwed you, just be annoyed that the system allowed you to be screwed". And in both cases the appropriate response is "beslubber that noise, I'm absolutely livid with both"
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Offline Arquarian

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Re: Seriously Games Workshop? What's in a Name?
« Reply #43 on: February 11, 2013, 10:00:44 AM »
I completely agree, low bar.  And yes again I agree, amazons lawyers probably had a good chuckle over the whole thing.


Which assessment are your referring to? the superfluous one I mean?




And I do have a problem which equivocating a petty legal spat of little consequence to brutal sexual humiliation.  If anyone really things these two things are similar I think they need to reassess their moral compass.


I'll say no more in this subject.

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Re: Seriously Games Workshop? What's in a Name?
« Reply #44 on: February 11, 2013, 10:10:02 AM »
Perhaps more worrying is that GW obviously acted on the idea that they DID have some grounds. When clearly they did not. you have to wonder what sort of legal advice they are getting!

More interestingly though, is that GW are NOT protecting their trademark items when other (larger) companies are using them in arenas that their trademark DOES fall into. There are a number of big games out there which include terms but clearly GW do not want to flex their muscles against someone who can fight back...

I think this is the key point.


Also, GW released a comment on their Facebook page. Tellingly it did NOT include an apology for the eroneous action... instead it was a basic legal jargon response not admitting any fault. It also went on about ensuring that they keep their share holders happy.

Not sure how happy their shareholders would be knowing that GW are embarrasing and incompetent and seemingly care little for their hobbyists... you know, the people who they need to buy their stuff and thus please the shareholders!

Offline Chuckles, The Space Marine Clown

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Re: Seriously Games Workshop? What's in a Name?
« Reply #45 on: February 11, 2013, 10:11:06 AM »
I think I'd have to take exception to the phrase "petty legal spat", to be honest. The effect of GW's actions were to try to deprive a private citizen of her income on entirely spurious grounds. That the effect they had was minimal is evidence of just how enormously they were overreaching in this instance, but I don't think "bullying individuals for no reason by hiding behind your enormous cash reserves and legal department" is particularly trivial, even if it isn't of international consequence.

By "your assessment" I meant the general theme of what you were saying, to whit: the whole thing was trivial, GW are bastards, dog bites man (originally wrote god there but that would be a little different), yawn, move on.

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Offline Guildmage Aech

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Re: Seriously Games Workshop? What's in a Name?
« Reply #46 on: February 11, 2013, 10:44:26 AM »
Publish a story with the term 'space marine' and have GW legal interfere with your lawful commercial enterprise.  Don't hate the player, hate the game.

Wear a short dress and get raped.  Don't hate the player, hate the game.

Couldn't have put it better myself

Nope. Cleavage is not consent.

And "don't hate the player, hate the game" is a term used by anti-social Powergamers to try to pretend its not their responsibility they turned up with a tiresome cut and paste netlist.

You're simply looking for excuses for poor behaviour. In the orginal topic and in both phrases used to defend it.

Three wrongs to make a right? No chance.
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Offline Chuckles, The Space Marine Clown

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Re: Seriously Games Workshop? What's in a Name?
« Reply #47 on: February 11, 2013, 11:20:11 AM »
I think you may have misconstrued Underhand's post. I could be wrong, but I have a pretty strong feeling he was expressing sarcasm, not justifying rape
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Re: Seriously Games Workshop? What's in a Name?
« Reply #48 on: February 11, 2013, 01:04:11 PM »
I fully retract my previous post due to totally missing Underhands point.
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Offline enlg

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Re: Seriously Games Workshop? What's in a Name?
« Reply #49 on: February 12, 2013, 10:29:55 AM »
For clarity (even though you too now understand the point) his sarcasm is referencing how some political groups (generally conservative, that is) in America blame rape victims for wearing revealing clothing, while ignoring the fact that its an abnormal and horrific act to commit rape.

The idea is that people shouldn't blame the author for games workshop suing her. It isn't her fault that games workshop feels the need to attack authors who are vulnerable to law suits simply because games workshop is financially more powerful than them and is worried about its IP.

I hope that clears it up. Correct me I'm wrong Underhands.

Offline Chuckles, The Space Marine Clown

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Re: Seriously Games Workshop? What's in a Name?
« Reply #50 on: February 12, 2013, 10:59:32 AM »
Small reference pools. What makes you think Underhand was referencing something in America? Anyway, I think there's now been enough people posting on Underhand's behalf that we should perhaps ease off speaking for him. One man one voice or something.

Moving on- so Games Workshop have climbed down on this one. Anybody think that means a change in policy? Anyone?

They got their hand caught in the cookie jar but they still want them some delicious cookies. It is interesting however that this appears to be the first time someone actually spread a hue and cry at their tactics (that I'm aware of) among the general fandom. Damnatus doesn't count here I'm afraid- come back when you make national news. I'm gently encouraged by this incident in some ways; GW legal did what Arq pointed out is fairly standard for them, a huge outcry was raised, and they backed off.
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Offline Boss Ard'Ragger

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Re: Seriously Games Workshop? What's in a Name?
« Reply #51 on: February 12, 2013, 12:15:14 PM »
No, I think they will try it again probably with a larger focus and try for a precidence.  We havnt heard the last of this by any means.  The fact they backed off, for now, for public outcry is considerate.  But as far as GW is concerned they lost a customer over this, I will not fund this coporate bullying in any means.  I will continue my hobby without any GW influence. >:(
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Offline Nemo vas Varya

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Re: Seriously Games Workshop? What's in a Name?
« Reply #52 on: February 12, 2013, 12:22:14 PM »
This is bloody routine, just most of the time, someone doesn't go to the internet and yell "Injustice." The result, this whole issue was blown out of proportion, was resolved, then for some unknown reason, the author brought it up again.

The book was back up in December, Games Workshop had done nothing then. Then Author posts her 'update' with a sob story about how these books pay for her daughters school, and the internet is outraged again... except this time NOTHING HAPPENED. Of course, that does not stop the internet Freedom Corp from mindlessly striking out at the big bad evil corporation.

Sometimes the righteous rage of the Internet is warranted. This was not one of those cases. This was routine TM protect that every company, small and big, does to some extent, where one party decided to grossly misunderstand the occurrences. Remember people, we do not know have an 8th of the story. GW is not going to come out and tell us everything they did, and this author seems to like the controversy, because again she brought it up for no reason, nothing was going on, her book was back up. She did it, to do it. That act alone to me makes me question her motives.
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Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: Seriously Games Workshop? What's in a Name?
« Reply #53 on: February 12, 2013, 06:45:50 PM »
New discussion may be found there for a few points clarified as to who did what to whom.

One interesting paragraph:
Quote
From a legal standpoint, Games Workshop claims it is concerned that consumers might be confused about whether or not Hogarth’s book was connected to its own series of Space Marine novels and wanted to use the 1946 Lanham Act to defend its brand on that basis. Although the company hasn’t registered the term “space marines” for use in fiction (print or digital) in the U.S., that wouldn’t necessarily make a difference should the company decide to pursue the matter; under the Lanham Act, “registration is not a prerequisite to federal trademark protection [although] registered marks enjoy significant advantages over unregistered marks.” All Games Workshop would have to do would be to prove that the term had become synonymous with its Warhammer property.
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Re: Seriously Games Workshop? What's in a Name?
« Reply #54 on: February 12, 2013, 10:11:03 PM »
Nemi,
incorrect. From what I read, Although the take down happened in December, Amazon did not put the book back up until this past week.

As I still disagree. I believe that the righteous wrath of the internet WAS completely warranted - directed at both GW and Amazon. (and hence that was the reason that I posted this and took advantage of my position to place a higher priority link on the front page for a day or two.
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Re: Seriously Games Workshop? What's in a Name?
« Reply #55 on: February 13, 2013, 06:18:59 AM »
I found this great little article about how this all went down. If you have missed it, please check it out.

Trademark Bully Thwarted: Spots the Space Marine Back Online | Electronic

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Offline Ollieb

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Re: Seriously Games Workshop? What's in a Name?
« Reply #56 on: February 14, 2013, 09:51:38 AM »
Right or wrong it is a brilliant move on GW's part to go after anyone that uses a term or produces a mini that even remotely resembles something of theirs. 

GW does not advertise, at least not here in the US, and any sort of free publicity even bad is better than none.  I'm betting that there is more than one person out there that hears of this, checks out GW and gets sucked into the hobby than there are those that quit WHFB or 40K over these issues. 
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Re: Seriously Games Workshop? What's in a Name?
« Reply #57 on: February 14, 2013, 10:14:16 PM »
Now Amazon is recommending to me anything with Space Marine in the title and this one seems more likely to have caused a GW awakening that the first one.
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Offline Nemo vas Varya

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Re: Seriously Games Workshop? What's in a Name?
« Reply #58 on: February 14, 2013, 10:58:32 PM »
Now Amazon is recommending to me anything with Space Marine in the title and this one seems more likely to have caused a GW awakening that the first one.

That explains everything! GW used this as bait, because they knew the Internet would Crusade against the big bad evil by purchasing that book in droves, which would then enter the spiders used to search things as a key data point, and then connect all similar data points and bring them to the surface so that they could easily gain intelligence before they began the grand crusade!
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