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Author Topic: Matt Ward. I gotta figure this out.  (Read 15403 times)

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Offline lich

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Matt Ward. I gotta figure this out.
« on: March 31, 2010, 10:24:36 AM »
I've noticed a pattern on the Internets. I've seem to not be able to figure it out yet. It seems to me that people seem to despise Matt Ward. Being still new to 40k I don't seem to understand why. Someone enlighten me?
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So a friend of got the new blood angels codex, he says its so overpowered that it give all friends in real life furious charge and feel no pain

Offline Colonel_Kex

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Re: Matt Ward. I gotta figure this out.
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2010, 11:33:40 AM »
it could be because of his silly sideburns... no seriously, people always find someone to blam for making their army "worse" or an apponents army "better".. gosh.. i remember hating Gav Thorpe for giving executioners light armour in WHFB. Still don't like the guy but you can't hate people for their ideas (unless they are really really reall stupid)

Offline MagicJuggler

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Re: Matt Ward. I gotta figure this out.
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2010, 11:38:48 AM »
This is not the real reason. The reason people hate Matt Ward is for his cavalier attitude, and his blatant ascended fanboy status. ("Ultramarines are the best Space Marine chapter out there. No really! They have to work harder than everyone else too.") It's a running joke on a certain imageboard that sooner or later everyone (even the Xenos) will adopt Robute Gulliman as their spiritual liege.

Offline Benis

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Re: Matt Ward. I gotta figure this out.
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2010, 11:45:56 AM »
I think the main problem actually comes from the WHFB Daemons of Chaos, which simply have some too powerful elements that it can be a bit silly against some foes, and the removal of traits and, as Magicjuggler said, the love for the Ultramarines (which is supported by background but nevermind that ::)).

I actually think he is quite good with the exception of Daemons of Chaos (which isn't bad as a armies book, it is simply badly point balanced). Lizardmen is fine and Space Marines, even if I find the named character system a bit boring, is a fine balanced codex. Not to mention 5th edition 40k which is great too.

I have other designers/writers that I find far more unforgivable than Matt Ward.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2010, 11:48:28 AM by Benis »

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Re: Matt Ward. I gotta figure this out.
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2010, 11:47:47 AM »
I don't get people being annoyed at him over the Space Marines Codex. GW's position has always been that the Ultramarines are the top dogs amongst the Space Marines. He was just writing according to his design brief, which he can hardly be blamed for, as that's his job.

The Warhammer Daemons Army Book is perhaps less excusable, but there we are
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Offline Moonsinger

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Re: Matt Ward. I gotta figure this out.
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2010, 12:20:32 PM »
I don't get people being annoyed at him over the Space Marines Codex. GW's position has always been that the Ultramarines are the top dogs amongst the Space Marines. He was just writing according to his design brief, which he can hardly be blamed for, as that's his job.

The Warhammer Daemons Army Book is perhaps less excusable, but there we are
Wasn't as much "OMFG ULTRAMARINES!" before.
"for this is the tale of the Ultramarines, and all those who follow their example." 
"These aberrant" (Blood Angels, Space Wolves) "Chapters were always few in number and their presence diminishes further with each passing decade, for their gene-seed is no longer the source of fresh Chapters." saaays whooo?
"this group also includes several Chapters of the First Founding - notably the Imperial Fists, White Scars and Raven Guard. These Chapters can never be Ultramarines, for their gene-seed is not that of Roboute Guilliman." page 24 SM codex. (Fair Use)

NEVER BE ULTRAMARINES! It just make the whole silly. Specialy when it coems to the first foundings... I am VERY sure that if a Chapter got their own Primarch, they wouldn't be "FAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPF AP" about Ultramarines. Sure give them honour to their primarch restructuring of the Space Marines, but not fapfap.

""Surround yourself with the greatest warriors at your command, or cower in the deepest and darkest hole you can find. It matters not. I shall take your head for the Great Khan and for the Emperor.' ~ Kor'sarro Khan... I see no and I hear no "ROBURATE GUILLIMAN!!!"
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Offline lich

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Re: Matt Ward. I gotta figure this out.
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2010, 12:29:39 PM »
Oh ok. I can now see why people would rage. Are all the 40k authors alright or are their any other "hated" authors?
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So a friend of got the new blood angels codex, he says its so overpowered that it give all friends in real life furious charge and feel no pain

Offline Benis

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Re: Matt Ward. I gotta figure this out.
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2010, 12:33:34 PM »
I think it is quite a fair stand point for Codex Space Marines to have. The silly varied First Founding lists of 3rd edition or the traits list of 4th really wasn't representative of Space Marines. They are all followers of the Codex with some aberrant chapters such as Blood Angels and Dark Angels, but they still follow the codex as a general guideline. Space Wolves is the only chapter that makes no reference to the Codex in their organisation. The new Codex makes a good show at how varied the Codex Chapter can be and how its organisation holds many different types of armies.

Ultramarines are the epitome of Adeptus Astartes, they embody the whole deal, it is only fair to make the codex out of that perspective. Remember that in 2nd edition there were no Codex Space Marines, only a Codex Ultramarines. ;)

Offline Moonsinger

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Re: Matt Ward. I gotta figure this out.
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2010, 12:34:57 PM »
I havn't read most books, but the Horus Heresy novels http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horus_Heresy_(novels) has gotten good review. I got the Fulgrim one and... its a delightfull reading. But usaly it's somekind of stuff in the books that make you go "eh?"
For example, the Firewarrior book got the hero, a tau firewarrior, going into a titan, setting up demolition charges and blow it up. Just taaad cheesy.
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Offline lich

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Re: Matt Ward. I gotta figure this out.
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2010, 12:43:35 PM »
For example, the Firewarrior book got the hero, a tau firewarrior, going into a titan, setting up demolition charges and blow it up. Just taaad cheesy.
Dear gawd, I would be scared to death of Firewarriors if I didnt know the stats going off that novel I would just go "You win" and walk away to find another game.
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So a friend of got the new blood angels codex, he says its so overpowered that it give all friends in real life furious charge and feel no pain

Offline Benis

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Re: Matt Ward. I gotta figure this out.
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2010, 12:47:37 PM »
Oh ok. I can now see why people would rage. Are all the 40k authors alright or are their any other "hated" authors?

Well the Black Library writers generally get a good whipping on the internet, which I think they somewhat deserve. For game designers (people writing the rules) I tend to not to be particularly disappointed with any of them except Phil Kelly who I find bland and juvenile in background and I detest his style of rule writing but that is not the general opinion as far as I have gathered. I tend to like most material published by Alessio Cavatore and the old school writers.

As for the Horus Heresy books, your mileage may vary. I find most of them to be about as bad as regular Black Library books, nothing special really, but if you like warporn they will probably go down fine. The two first (Horus Rising, False Gods) are the ones that I think stand a bit above regular Black Library books.

Offline MagicJuggler

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Re: Matt Ward. I gotta figure this out.
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2010, 01:36:00 PM »
C.S. Goto is another popular subject of hate. For having a raging hard-on for Multilasers, to the point of Space Marines carrying around portable versions of them. Also, Eldar tanks which can be destroyed by kids throwing rocks into the engines, and Eldar-torture gorn. Yep. That's good 'ol Goto.

Offline Raktra (So long, I guess)

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Re: Matt Ward. I gotta figure this out.
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2010, 01:54:49 PM »
Mat Ward also has a fetish for Mephiston it seems, given his new pieces of background where he does such things as kill a Carnifex with his bare hands, and resurrect himself again after being torn up by a sly Trygon, only to have Eldrad ensure his safety.

There's also the piece of background where a Necron Lord decides to ally itself with Dante to fight off 'Nids, then not kill off the weakened Blood Angels once the 'Nids are gone. This is beslubbering weird.


Quote
Phil Kelly who I find bland and juvenile in background
See, I don't mind him so much. Fair enough his background can be a little bland ("Here's the Avatar. It's big."), but otherwise his stuff is pretty good overall. Gav Thorpe I've never been too enthralled with.

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Re: Matt Ward. I gotta figure this out.
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2010, 02:04:55 PM »
Mat Ward also has a fetish for Mephiston it seems, given his new pieces of background where he does such things as kill a Carnifex with his bare hands, and resurrect himself again after being torn up by a sly Trygon, only to have Eldrad ensure his safety. There's also the piece of background where a Necron Lord decides to ally itself with Dante to fight off 'Nids, then not kill off the weakened Blood Angels once the 'Nids are gone. This is beslubbering weird.

Once again, Mr. Ward is not starting anything new here. Mephiston has always been, with the possible exception of Dante himself, ridiculously popular with GW writers since well before Mat's time.
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Offline Benis

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Re: Matt Ward. I gotta figure this out.
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2010, 02:18:03 PM »
Yes the Blood Angels' heroes have always been worshipped at GW, for some reason they were considered to be exceptionally cool (together with Space Wolves') during 2nd edition when all special characters had the run of the mill.

See, I don't mind him so much. Fair enough his background can be a little bland ("Here's the Avatar. It's big."), but otherwise his stuff is pretty good overall. Gav Thorpe I've never been too enthralled with.

Just out of interest (it is after all a pet peeve of mine :)) what things stand out as good to you compared to earlier constructions? As I said before I have realised that most people seem to like him/not dislike him but it still would be interesting.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2010, 02:20:39 PM by Benis »

Offline Aluinn

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Re: Matt Ward. I gotta figure this out.
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2010, 05:06:08 PM »
I think it is quite a fair stand point for Codex Space Marines to have. The silly varied First Founding lists of 3rd edition or the traits list of 4th really wasn't representative of Space Marines. They are all followers of the Codex with some aberrant chapters such as Blood Angels and Dark Angels, but they still follow the codex as a general guideline. Space Wolves is the only chapter that makes no reference to the Codex in their organisation. The new Codex makes a good show at how varied the Codex Chapter can be and how its organisation holds many different types of armies.

Ultramarines are the epitome of Adeptus Astartes, they embody the whole deal, it is only fair to make the codex out of that perspective. Remember that in 2nd edition there were no Codex Space Marines, only a Codex Ultramarines. ;)

We all know there are more Ultramarines successors and more Codex-following chapters than not, that isn't the issue. The issue is that he made it seem as though Imperial Fists, for example, find the Ultramarines way of doing things to be in all ways superior to their own, and venerate Guilliman as much as they do Rogal Dorn, and that is stupid.

Obviously any chapter would be way more into their own Primarch than Roboute Guilliman, but Matt Ward suggests otherwise, and if, say, Raven Guard thought the Ultramarines were just all that in every way, why would they use such distinct tactics?

Also some of the rules in Codex: BA are a bit daft. Let's take Mephiston. I'm not complaining about him being overpowered, as he is rather expensive and has no invulnerable save, but he is still a Space Marine-sized Space Marine, and yet somehow he has the physical stats of a freaking Carnifex. I know he conquered the Black Rage and all this, but did that make him ENORMOUS somehow?

He also apparently feels that 3+ invulnerable saves are okay to hand out regularly, which has not been the case since the advent of the invulnerable save.

Offline Lorizael

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Re: Matt Ward. I gotta figure this out.
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2010, 05:08:06 PM »
but he is still a Space Marine-sized Space Marine, and yet somehow he has the physical stats of a freaking Carnifex. I know he conquered the Black Rage and all this, but did that make him ENORMOUS somehow?

Since when do stats and size have any correlation?

Offline Raktra (So long, I guess)

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Re: Matt Ward. I gotta figure this out.
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2010, 05:20:35 PM »
Mat Ward also has a fetish for Mephiston it seems, given his new pieces of background where he does such things as kill a Carnifex with his bare hands, and resurrect himself again after being torn up by a sly Trygon, only to have Eldrad ensure his safety. There's also the piece of background where a Necron Lord decides to ally itself with Dante to fight off 'Nids, then not kill off the weakened Blood Angels once the 'Nids are gone. This is beslubbering weird.

Once again, Mr. Ward is not starting anything new here. Mephiston has always been, with the possible exception of Dante himself, ridiculously popular with GW writers since well before Mat's time.
I know, just I've not seen him represented to this insane degree before, and I've got the older Blood Angel books.

Just out of interest (it is after all a pet peeve of mine :)) what things stand out as good to you compared to earlier constructions? As I said before I have realised that most people seem to like him/not dislike him but it still would be interesting.

I liked his stuff in the Ork Codex. A lot of it was fun, and felt very Orky to me. Some of the things in the Space Wolves book were daft (read: Canis' background).

Offline Gornon

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Re: Matt Ward. I gotta figure this out.
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2010, 05:24:17 PM »
From a White Dwarf interview:

Quote
The Ultramarines are undoubtedly the best Space Marines ever.  Yes, really!....With a few fringe exceptions who have severe mutations (Blood Angels) or stolid stubbornness (Space Wolves and Dark Angels) all Space Marine Chapters want to be like the Ultramarines and recognize Marneus Calgar as their spiritual liege.

That is why I hate Matt Ward.  It's just so stupid.  He's saying that Raven Guard, Imperial Fists, Salamanders, ect, all basically want to be Ultramarines.  This is in complete disregard to the fact that as First Founding Chapters they would have their own heroes and Primarchs to venerate and traditional fighting styles to uphold.  Ascended fan boy is the correct term, IMO.

The Codices Ward makes are not bad from a game perspective, but his background is just terrible.  The Space Marines and characters are even more over the top awesome than normal.  Not one, but two Bloodthirsters get beat down in his Codex, for instance.  Overall, I find him to be a poor writer even worse than the normal GW standard.

To put it simply, he's the reason why I like GW's policy of "Everything printed is canon.  It's up to the viewer to decide what parts are real and not".  Aka, pick what background you wish to believe. 
« Last Edit: March 31, 2010, 05:26:03 PM by Gornon »
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Offline Raktra (So long, I guess)

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Re: Matt Ward. I gotta figure this out.
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2010, 05:27:38 PM »
There's also a lot of hatred for the Avatar in some of his books it seems. I kind of feel sorry for it, in the past couple of books it's been horrifically be-atch-slapped all over the place. It's a demi-god for crying out loud.

 


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