Topic: 1750 RTT Report

[Lazarus]

Here is the list that I used for yesterday's 1750 RTT. I was trying not to use special characters or harlies and this was my test run. I'm eventually going to drop one of the heavy skimmers as soon as the rest of my shining spears are painted.

1750 list

(188) Farseer on jetbike w/ sining spear, runes of warding, runes of witnessing, spirit stones, doom & fortune

(125) Autarch w/ jump generator, power weapon, mandiblasters & fusion gun.

(76) 3 guardian jetbikes w/ cannon upgrade

(76) 3 guardian jetbikes w/ cannon upgrade

(152) 10 Dire avengers - exarch w/ dual catapults & blade storm.
(130) 1 Wave serpent w/ spirt stones, vectored engines & TL shuriken cannon.

(113) 6 fire dragons - exarch w/ dragon's breath & crack shot.

(123) 6 banshees - exarch w/ executioner & war shout.

(152) 5 Warp spiders - exarch w/ dual spinners, surprise assault & withdraw.

(190) Fire prism w/ shuriken cannon, holo field, spirt stones & vectored engines.

(205) Falcon w/ Scatter laser, shuriken cannon, holo field, spirt stones, vectored engines

(220) Falcon w/ Scatter laser, shuriken cannon, holo field, spirt stones, vectored engines & star engines


2 HQ
3 TROOP
2 ELITE
1 FAST
3 HEAVY

39 models
9 scoring units



Game 1 is a loot mission vs. Imperial guard.

His list best from memory:
Command squad
50-60 guardsmen - assorted special weapons & all carapace armour
2 heavy weapon teams (autocannons & las cannons)
1 bassie
2 leman russ
1 chimera
10 storm trooopers (plasma)
10 storm troopers w/ melta (drop troops)


 I win table edge choosing my own side (terrain pretty light on both sides). I win initiative with a 2' (lol) and elect to go first. My fireprism was abkle to kill around 10 guardsman with it's alt fire mode - that was cool. Sporadic fire and I manage to put 5 wounds on the lascannon heavy weapon teams as well as the autocannon teams. Most of my army moves into posistion to strike. He immobilizes a falcon and shakes the prism not much else. Next turn I assault a guardsman unit with my spiders that I also doomed and managed to kill 5 guys.....not soo impressive. I blow up his bassie with my falcon and things are looking good. My avengers get out of the serpent and elect to forgo shooting and assault the guardsman in cover (on objective). That mills around for quite a bit before I finally lose the avengers. Start of the 3rd turn my seer blows himself up from a perils of the warp attack (just as predicted lol). My spiders finished their work and jump to assault his next unit. I need to roll a 3' on one of the dice but roll double 2's instead stranding them in the open. I lose all but the Autarch who manages to run around and kill 6 more guardsman before dying to the imperial officer's power weapon. I mainly kept my bikes hidden and used them to capture objectives at the end sealing the game 2-1 on loot counters.
My opponent was fairly young and had "movement issues" - his 6" move was usually around 9" or 10" especially with his leman russ etc. He would often roll without announcing what it was for until afterwards. He tried to move through his own models despite their being no room. A trying game for me and I likely had my sportsmanship docked (he's done so to other players) becasue of our rules issues. Funny how you get docked for playing by the rules. (lol)

Game 2 was a recon mission vs. a demon hunter army. A great guy to play against although his name escapes me at the moment. His list best from memory:

Inquisitor & retinue (plasma cannon psy cannon + bunch of guys lol)
3 squads of 5 grey knights (2 units w/ psy cannons & 1 unit w/ dual flamers)
HQ in terminator armour (don't even know what he had lol)
3 dreads (2 las + CC / 1 w/ Las +ML)
2 Chimera
2 5 man storm trooper units w/ plasma
1 calidus assassin


He wins deployment taking the side w/ better cover. He uses the tarrot to get +1 on initiative and wins that roll as well electing to go first. He had used his "word in you ear" to pull one of my falcons directly into the open. None of my tanks were really hidden anyways so I need some luck here. I got it. He eithwr missed or hit but failed to glance/pen with all of his shooting except the falcon in the open where he glanced it and blew off the pulse laser. I mainly stay back on my first round as I'm waiting for his deepstrikers to arrive without showing him my rear armour. I stun a dread and kill a chimera - nothing much. He drops in losing one of his knight squads trying to get the rear of my serpent. He tries again and lands on target. He drops the other unit behind my spiders with the two flamers. His assain appears next to my seer (who was w/ a unit of bikes) - only his HQ didn't show up. He blows up my serpent wounding 7 avengers - I fail all 7 saves. He immobiles a falcon and shakes the rest of the tanks. Seer gets a wound from the assassin and I knoe he's a goner next round most likely. The spiders lose 4 models leaving only the exarch & Autarch who pass their morlae. They retaliate killing one model and charging in to kill two more. I eventually win the combat. The dragons got out of the immobilzed falcon and shot the dread immobilizing it. They later locked up w/ another dread in CC. The banshees got out of the falcon that had been next to the serpent and killed 4 of 5 of the knights only losing one of theirs. They moped up there and then killed his commander that had just deepstruck in. By the end of the game I had killed all save for a damaged dread and the remnants of his inquisitor unit. The last 3 avengers and litterally avenged themselves by blowing up a chimera (blade stormed in the rear) - later charged the stormtroopers from the transport (killed those 4) and then later still blade stormed the inquisitor's retinue killing 4 of them.

I had 3 scoring units to none and another win.


Game 3 was the one I was really fearing. Armoured company on a basiaclly open table.

His list best from memory:

Vanquisher tank
Demolisher
2 Exterminators
Hell hound
Chimera
Salamander
2 Bassies
Leman russ tank
3 sentinels (2 las / 1 multilaser)
Storm trooper unit w/ plasma)

He had a doctrine thgat allowed re-rollig of 1's in the shooting and could affect his scatter die rolls as well.

The mission was cleanse with VP's. I win deployment but the sides matter little as there isn't really any terrain. I lose initiative. He blows up the serpent and kills two avengers. He shakes the falcon. He destroys a bike unit. He misses / fails to pen with the rest.
I boost my fortuned seer to hide in the quarter next to him behind a small building - litterally the only place on the entire board big enough to hide a tank and only from that angle...lol All of my shooting only nets me an immobilized result on one sentinel. He promptly destroys my other buike unit as I had nowhere to hide them. He immobilzes the prism and kills all but one dire avenger w. artillery. My spiders show up dropping down next to his sentinels and managed to blow them up. I manage to shake a tank or two - it's not looking too good. I boosted the two falcons over to his sidec accross the river. He blows up the wounded fire prism. My two skimmers play rotating peekaboo with the only piece of terrain so I'd get some shooting in. Fire dragons killed a leman russ and the seer killed the salamander with his spear. Spiders lived somehow and shoot and extreminator before dying. Autarch dies from a multilaser (instant death). Dragons go down and it's not looking to good. All I have left on turn 4 is my two falcons, my seer and the useless banshee unit. He still has 1 bassie, 2 exterminators, 1 chimera w/ strom troopers, 1 hell hound and 1 demolisher. My falcon drops the banshees behind the building while it's shaken. My seer soaks up nearly the entire firepower of his amry making all but one save taking a wound. (makes up for my 14 consecuative failed saves earlier lol). I zoom the one falcon over to block his demolisher from gaining further access into the quarter. 6 turn and he fails to kill anything of mine. The seer has now soaked up 2 straight turns of extreminator fire as well as a direct bassie hit...lol
I try to pop the side armour of the demolisher with my falcon but it doesn't happen - quarter is contested. My last chance comes with the seer coming up behind the hellhound which was contesting the quarter that the banshees were controlling - throws the separ and blows it up swining a draw to a minor win.


3-0 and I win the best overall.


I sorely missed the harlies and Eldrad. I did not like the evengers much at all. Serpents are simply not as durable as you would think - especially for me. Not enough terrain to hide behind either. The seer dying in game 1 was awfull - game 2 he did nothing but die either - but then he practically won the game in the 3rd round - I only imagine what a small bike council would have done. (lol)
The Autarch was just "ok" - died in all games but one - much better off with a bike autarch or perferably Yriel....

Lazarus.

[Draza]

Well done, congratulations on the win . It's good to see you challenge yourself and come out on top.

I sorely missed the harlies and Eldrad. I did not like the evengers much at all. Serpents are simply not as durable as you would think - especially for me. Not enough terrain to hide behind either. The seer dying in game 1 was awfull - game 2 he did nothing but die either - but then he practically won the game in the 3rd round - I only imagine what a small bike council would have done. (lol)
The Autarch was just "ok" - died in all games but one - much better off with a bike autarch or perferably Yriel....

*The only thing that can save a Farseer is a re-worked on the perils rules (for no more instant kill). The ghosthelm only helps a little bit, basically making the Farseer a risk to take. It was inevitable that Eldrad would have to take up the slack, for the toughness 4 alone.

*Wave serpents are hit and miss when it comes to survivability. I guess they do a good job if you keep them cheap. My old WS will defintly have to change, it's TL-Bright lance is way too expensive

*What do you think of the new Prisms. I'm considering using two Prisms in a 1500pt list. Have you done that before?, is it effective?


Congrats on the win

*Going to be adding a very similiar Auturch to my list, either to hang around with spiders, hawks or avengers. They don't seem anything special, but they seem like a cheap HQ that benefits an army that relies on it's squads more than anything.

*Nice work against the tank company. That Seer must've been like a child loose in a candy factory with all that side armour to slice into. It surviving a Earthshaker round is also pretty funny

[Lazarus]

Posted by: Draza

Well done, congratulations on the win . It's good to see you challenge yourself and come out on top.

Thanks. There were mahy who still said it wasn't a challenge since I still used 3 heavy skimmers - my stuff wasn't painted yet so I didn't have much choice.

The other thing I missed was my second unit of dragons....sure would have come in handy vs. the armoured company.

*The only thing that can save a Farseer is a re-worked on the perils rules (for no more instant kill). The ghosthelm only helps a little bit, basically making the Farseer a risk to take. It was inevitable that Eldrad would have to take up the slack, for the toughness 4 alone.

Yep, he almost blew himself up in game 3 but the helm saved him - he was scary to use...

*Wave serpents are hit and miss when it comes to survivability. I guess they do a good job if you keep them cheap. My old WS will defintly have to change, it's TL-Bright lance is way too expensive

Yes, I used to use 2 serpents w/ TL lances in my old mech list but no more - most of the time the serpent doesn't even make the list....

*What do you think of the new Prisms. I'm considering using two Prisms in a 1500pt list. Have you done that before?, is it effective?

I won't use 2 prisms - spend too much time being shaken so it's only likely that you are going to link that shot once or twice in a game (assuming you weapon isn't blown off right away like mine are all the time.)

Lazarus.

[srintuar]

The tables dont sound very fun: no LOS blocking terrain or movement impedeing obstacles does not make for much strategy.

Your list seems much softer than usual this game.

Yes, a bike-council could have done amazing things i bet.



About wave serpents, yes they seem preternaturally fragile.

I lost 3 of them on one round in a recent game.
two plasma guns and one missile launcher accounting for all of them.
(apparently the best possible outcome from his POV)
Very disheartening.

[Lazarus]

Posted by: srintuar

The tables dont sound very fun: no LOS blocking terrain or movement impedeing obstacles does not make for much strategy.

Yeah, I'm not sure why there wasn't more terrain as the store had plenty of it - pretty sure it was intentional for some reason... 

Your list seems much softer than usual this game.

That was the intent. I originally was going to replace one of the heavy skimmers (likely the prism) with my shining spear unit but they weren't finished in tim - besides, I'm still building the bike Autarch anyways...

Yes, a bike-council could have done amazing things i bet.

Yep, in my list is some warlocks that I need for the bike units anyways. I'll give it a go but they are horribly expensive.

Lazarus.

[Perihelion]

Your farseer had perfect timing to only fail a save against a weapon in that AC list that didn't insta-gib him.
And your army isn't more powerful than another army simply because it has 3 heavy skimmers. A monkey could push a skimmer across the table, but it takes a general to keep them alive and kill things.

[Satanic Joker Jester]

very well done, those tables sound pretty harsh...

 and what the.. 3 heavy skimmers in 1750 isn't too much. Considering a lot of the overpowered/powered lists and units other armies have.

 what do you mean second unit of dragons? you used 2 units of 6 dragons in falcons? no harlies? o_O or are you speaking from before? just curious,

 but again, congratulations, i dont think i'll be able to play in the tourny i was planning on due to time constraints...sadly, as i was greatly looking forward to it, but i WILL be testing the list, so should be great fun.

 how did you find the banshees to be..seems you didn't get much use for them, when people found out you had loaded banshees and not harlies, were they relieved? haha i could imagine..

[Lazarus]

Posted by: Satanic Joker Jester

3 heavy skimmers in 1750 isn't too much. Considering a lot of the overpowered/powered lists and units other armies have.

Sadly, it's the only way to keep my theme unless I only use two heavy slots. No other fast options there....

 

what do you mean second unit of dragons? you used 2 units of 6 dragons in falcons? no harlies? o_O or are you speaking from before? just curious,

My "standard" list will often have 2 units of dragons in it. If I use harlies they were on foot (like in my 'Ard boyz list). This list didn't use harlies and of course only one unit of dragons. (banshees replaced them).

how did you find the banshees to be..seems you didn't get much use for them

First game they killed a total of 5 guardsman and then wandered around on the flank with nothing to do (falcon had been shot down).
Second game they dispatched a 5 man grey knight unit followed by their commander on the following turn. This was only made possible as he deepstruck next to the falcon to begin with. The banshees didn't kill the 5 man unit in their turn but needed my opponent's turn to finish the job. Looking at the to hit rolls on the first charge it would have been 4 rends (had I been using harlies) with a good chance of the last guy dying to either the power weapon or even the regular str 4 attacks. No way to compare it - the harlies are just better. I couldn't get doom to work for the banshees at all s the seer was either dead, not close enough to target or the fact there wasn't a suitable target for it.
Last game the banshees had o targets to choose from. They did hold a quarter at the end which won me the game I suppose....lol

when people found out you had loaded banshees and not harlies, were they relieved? haha i could imagine..

My army sits on a display board and my opponent gets a copy of the list before the game. They know full well in advance that there are no harlies.

Lazarus.

[moc065]

Wow, I didn't expect such a Mechanized/fast list form you....I thought Hybrid was more your thing with the Ulthwe roots of Eldrad, and those nasty old Wraithguard... Good to see from your by the way.

Anyway, Congrats on the wins, as I personnally don't liek to face the types of armies you saw.

I will be posting a link to your list (if you don't mind) as I wish to use it for a reference. I will PM you with the details.

CaHG

[Lazarus]

I've been switching up my list alot of late. No reason to play optimal all of the time unless you ned too.

Over the last 3 tourneys In have not used special characters / harlies and in the last I only used 2 heavy support @1,750.

Lazarus.

[moc065]

Here is the list that I used for yesterday's 1750 RTT. I was trying not to use special characters or harlies and this was my test run. I'm eventually going to drop one of the heavy skimmers as soon as the rest of my shining spears are painted.

1750 list

(188) Farseer on jetbike w/ sining spear, runes of warding, runes of witnessing, spirit stones, doom & fortune

(125) Autarch w/ jump generator, power weapon, mandiblasters & fusion gun.

(76) 3 guardian jetbikes w/ cannon upgrade

(76) 3 guardian jetbikes w/ cannon upgrade

(152) 10 Dire avengers - exarch w/ dual catapults & blade storm.
(130) 1 Wave serpent w/ spirt stones, vectored engines & TL shuriken cannon.

(113) 6 fire dragons - exarch w/ dragon's breath & crack shot.

(123) 6 banshees - exarch w/ executioner & war shout.

(152) 5 Warp spiders - exarch w/ dual spinners, surprise assault & withdraw.

(190) Fire prism w/ shuriken cannon, holo field, spirt stones & vectored engines.

(205) Falcon w/ Scatter laser, shuriken cannon, holo field, spirt stones, vectored engines

(220) Falcon w/ Scatter laser, shuriken cannon, holo field, spirt stones, vectored engines & star engines


2 HQ
3 TROOP
2 ELITE
1 FAST
3 HEAVY

39 models
9 scoring units

3-0 and I win the best overall.


I sorely missed the harlies and Eldrad. I did not like the evengers much at all. Serpents are simply not as durable as you would think - especially for me. Not enough terrain to hide behind either. The seer dying in game 1 was awfull - game 2 he did nothing but die either - but then he practically won the game in the 3rd round - I only imagine what a small bike council would have done. (lol)
The Autarch was just "ok" - died in all games but one - much better off with a bike autarch or perferably Yriel....

Lazarus.

OK, just to give the list a Scoring as to its overall potential for success with the folowing in mind.
Anti-tank -- Every unit actually has some some Anti-tank potential and at least 45% of that would be considered viable. -- Above Average (.
Anti-MEQ -- It does have limited AP=3 (FD's, Prism, Falcon) but it also does use mass high strength shooting, Doom, etc. -- Average (.6)
Anti-Horde -- Decent amount of shooting and speed with some really nice combonations. -- Above Average (.
Ranged Firepower -- Few of the really good guns are also long ranged but it does plenty of mid ranged to go with speed to offset this. -- Average (.6)
Assault -- With only 1 dedicated assault squad and few that can have supporting role this is where the list could suffer the most. -- Slightly Below Average (.5)
Scoring Units -- 9 decently sized Scoring units is decent at 1.75K, especially considering the speed and VP Denial potential of those units. -- Good (.9)
Durability -- With some of the army having t=4, and 3+ saves or decent armour I would say that it is durable. -- Good (.9)
Flexability -- Due to the synergy of the different units its strongest points is probably the ability to react to any given situation. Excellent (1)
Mission Capabiliy -- With the use of the two IC's and their powers the entire list becomes much more Mission ready regardless of the scenerio. Good (.9)
Overall Dynamics and Theme -- Very capable of having any unit function on its own, or in combo's, with multiple roles. Excellent (1)

Overall Score -- 8/10 Others may score it differently; but this Mech (almost fully Aspect) army obviously has the potential to do well as it did Win the RTT with Lazarus at its helm.

CaHG

[robdark22]

cant really agure lazarus 3-0 is pertty hard to look up against if you having roster problem that would be a  different problem all together. sometime the problem as being eldar is that what you want to play doesnt always get used because we have to many option in the army to play with.  the only option is that i would try roster control and point conservation because you should really look at in the end.

[Zaeon]

Nice wins Laz, its also nice to see someone else not use special characters. I find pretty much anything but the Avatar for special characters distasteful. Three heavy skimmers is a bit much, but like you said, not much else could be done for theme, at least it wasn't three falcons. That Armored company sounds BRUTAL, nice job with ol' farseer man.

[Lazarus]

Posted by: Zaeon

Nice wins Laz, its also nice to see someone else not use special characters

Thanks. I do use special characters in many tourneys depending on the competition level. I've been trying of late to tone down my lists to make everyone happier.

Three heavy skimmers is a bit much, but like you said, not much else could be done for theme, at least it wasn't three falcons.

It might be a bit much but I knew there was going to be other lists present that I might get matched up against. Armoured company being one of them.

That Armored company sounds BRUTAL, nice job with ol' farseer man.

Especially so when you lose initiative and there isn't enough terrain. (lol)

Lazarus.

[Ailideon]

Everytime I read a RTT tournament report i usually notice there are one to two tables that have almost none/ very little terrain. Is it not required to atleast 25% board terrain? That would have greatly helped your odds in game 3. I find that 25% is perfect.

[Lazarus]

Yes, 25% is supposed to be standard.....

Lazarus.

[Zaeon]

I'm heading to Adepticon this year and everyone I talk to says, "practice with like 2 forests and a building b/c thats all you get". I hope they are wrong but I have a feeling I won't be that lucky.

[Lazarus]

Adepticon had plenty of terrain last year.

Lazarus.