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Author Topic: Theology, Philosophy and Religion  (Read 24346 times)

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Offline Erand

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Re:Theology, Philosophy and Religion
« Reply #20 on: October 1, 2003, 01:59:51 PM »
wow! you guys move fast!

so let me get a chance too catch up....

fisrt up, everyone has their own view, so respect them, no one elsses veiw is any less valid than your own, rgardless... so against argue the view, not the person presenting it. thanks and i hope if we can stick to that we can all get along good.......

anyway, moving on to some of the isues that you have raised:

Quote
The Afterlife: Bulll or Truth?

We really can't know, so why not assume something and live our lives? Concerning ourselves with an afterlife has no good purpose, as every theory out there for it is simply made up. There is no possible way for a living person to figure out wether their is an afterlife

but does this mean that we should ignor it compleatly? i juat happened to have spent all of my philosophy lesson today arguing this point with my teacher... so just because we can't prove something does that mean we should not try to? well i think that part of the knowlage comes from the question, the answer holds no meaning if you don't know what you are asking, and so part of the whole reason that we debate things is to try and figure out what the questions really are. we will never get a final answer until the day we die, or can we? to those who truly belive, they have the answer, to have faith without doubt is one of the most powerful things in the world, a man who has no doubt is a force that can never be broken, however we cannot choose to ignor doubt, we can choose belife but we can't choose compleat belife. try to imagin what it would be like to wake up and know what is the right thing to do and just do it, we have all had these moments on a small sacle, weather it be playing sport, in an exam or at work or with a girl. those rare moments are the best thing that can ever happen to you, you can't expain it but its true....

Erriond

Offline Tuisich-Anastari

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Re:Theology, Philosophy and Religion
« Reply #21 on: October 1, 2003, 06:19:13 PM »
Personally, I think Heaven and Hell was dreamed up by the Church to keep people in shape, doing what they want them to do.

Fortunately, scripture was written well before the Catholic church dominated European society in the middle ages, or any other age, and the theory is thus bunk--historically impossible.  The early church had 0 power, politically.  Early Christians were severely persecuted, as many are across the world today.

T-A
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Offline Surface

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Re:Theology, Philosophy and Religion
« Reply #22 on: October 1, 2003, 06:20:25 PM »
Two of my favourite quotes.

On truth:

Trust those who claim to seek truth.  Trust not those who claim to have found it.

(Cant remember the author, anyone?)

On blasphemy:

"All great truths begin as blasphemies."

George Bernard Shaw
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Offline Tuisich-Anastari

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Re:Theology, Philosophy and Religion
« Reply #23 on: October 1, 2003, 06:20:42 PM »
There is no possible way for a living person to figure out wether their is an afterlife.

Unless, of course, God came to earth and revealed the truth of the matter to us...
"A careful study of the Bible would convince many people that it is a very different
book than they assume it to be." --Loraine Boettner, The Reformed Doctrine Of Predestination

This post is dedicated to all those who never have a post dedicated to them.

Offline Yentz

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Re:Theology, Philosophy and Religion
« Reply #24 on: October 1, 2003, 08:54:59 PM »
There is no possible way for a living person to figure out wether their is an afterlife.

Unless, of course, God came to earth and revealed the truth of the matter to us...

Which is not happening any time soon(and don't say Jesus, as after all, not everybody believes he is God)

Offline laun mo R

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Re:Theology, Philosophy and Religion
« Reply #25 on: October 1, 2003, 11:56:12 PM »
Any one who come back would still be considered crazy by the masses.  Normal is a concesus.

Seeing that it is October, anyone Know of Harry Houdini?





Riiiight... Your Christian rants are going against my religion, so according to your logic, you're stupid, rude and are a power freak.

Ah, I see. It's only blaspheming if it's against Christianity...

I believe that when you die, you rot... Y'know? We are just organs (brains) and I don't believe in any spirit stuff... It's jsut there to make people feel better about dying...

My Apologies, thought I was clairifing and sharing.
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Offline Tuisich-Anastari

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Re:Theology, Philosophy and Religion
« Reply #26 on: October 2, 2003, 09:41:49 AM »
There is no possible way for a living person to figure out wether their is an afterlife.

Unless, of course, God came to earth and revealed the truth of the matter to us...

Which is not happening any time soon(and don't say Jesus, as after all, not everybody believes he is God)

Hmm, I didn't realize that truth was determined by unanimous consensus...

By the way, you're right--it's not happening any time soon (do you have some special knowledge of the future, btw?); it already happened roughly 2000 years ago.

T-A
« Last Edit: October 2, 2003, 09:43:41 AM by Tuisich-Anastari »
"A careful study of the Bible would convince many people that it is a very different
book than they assume it to be." --Loraine Boettner, The Reformed Doctrine Of Predestination

This post is dedicated to all those who never have a post dedicated to them.

Offline HarlequinSolitaire

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Re:Theology, Philosophy and Religion
« Reply #27 on: October 2, 2003, 01:47:54 PM »
OK!

Eeeeevilution!

If we didn't evolve, then what are fossils?

Dinosaurs?

Genes that are half-a-strain away from a chimp (What a coincidence!)
'An eye for an eye, and soon the world is blind'

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Offline Erand

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Re:Theology, Philosophy and Religion
« Reply #28 on: October 2, 2003, 02:18:07 PM »
well for the those of you who like me have a comic out look on philosophy, that is to say you have to laugh at it all for if you don't it will one day drive you insane..... i recomend reading hitch hikers guide to the galaxy, i have just finished it and i have to say that Dougles Adams weather he intended it or not is most likly one of the most sucessful philosophers of all time. why?  well because he knows that everything he writes is fictisious, nothing is real, and this alows him to explore realms of theology that we in our closed minds can't. in order to try and understand we must suspend our disbelife, however if we are already reading what we know to be fiction then we don't have to make that effort and all of those ideals cann simply flow into our minds... a much recomended read!

Erriond

Offline Caligua t3h Liffguard

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Re:Theology, Philosophy and Religion
« Reply #29 on: October 2, 2003, 02:24:11 PM »
Agreed, read the Hitchhiker's guide. Forget the answer (42), look for the question.
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Offline Erand

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Re:Theology, Philosophy and Religion
« Reply #30 on: October 2, 2003, 02:30:53 PM »
when reading the Guide always keep an open mind, those who belive sometimes forget that there are new horisons, i belive in God, i am jewish, but i also belive that there are more important things than my religion,  my friends, the people i love, and my happiness, not in a selfish way, but in a way that mean i can be the best person, religion is not an answer in my veiw, it is a means to help us find that answer.

Erriond

Offline Tuisich-Anastari

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Re:Theology, Philosophy and Religion
« Reply #31 on: October 2, 2003, 03:52:47 PM »
OK!

Eeeeevilution!

If we didn't evolve, then what are fossils?

Dinosaurs?

Genes that are half-a-strain away from a chimp (What a coincidence!)

Um, they're fossils.  And dinosaurs.  

And the similarities between chimp and human DNA only 'demonstrate' evolution if you assume it to begin with.  It could just as well support their having been designed by the same Creator, and indeed further is only to be expected, as chimps and humans are greatly similar morphologically.  Were it to be found that the two were vastly different biochemically, would it not raise doubts as to whether DNA really does what we think it does?

T-A
"A careful study of the Bible would convince many people that it is a very different
book than they assume it to be." --Loraine Boettner, The Reformed Doctrine Of Predestination

This post is dedicated to all those who never have a post dedicated to them.

Offline Erand

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Re:Theology, Philosophy and Religion
« Reply #32 on: October 2, 2003, 03:55:26 PM »
but we can map and alter DNA and it does different things when we do... i think you underestimate the amount we know about DNA.

Erriond

Offline HarlequinSolitaire

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Re:Theology, Philosophy and Religion
« Reply #33 on: October 2, 2003, 04:59:02 PM »
"Um, they're fossils.  And dinosaurs.  "

Clap... clap... clap...

That doesn't really answer the question that well, now does it?

And yes; We know morea about genes than you think. How do you think GM came about? And cloning? We must be having an awful lot of coincidences... Maybe God helped out...
'An eye for an eye, and soon the world is blind'

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Offline Tuisich-Anastari

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Re:Theology, Philosophy and Religion
« Reply #34 on: October 2, 2003, 05:41:37 PM »
You both missed the point of my post.  I was not in the least minimizing what we know about the human genome (though in light of what there is to know, we know almost nothing).  All I was saying is that the claim that the similarity between chimp and human DNA demonstrates evolution is a bogus, illogical conclusion.  The statement about casting doubt upon DNA doing what we think it does was not intended to actually cast such doubt, but to reinforce the claim that the similarity between the two is exactly what we should expect from looking at chimps and humans outwardly, theory of evolution or no.  And I think my response answers the questions about fossils and dinosaurs perfectly, unless you want to flesh out more of what you meant by them.  Do you suggest that creatures couldn't have died, gotten buried and become fossilized, and that creatures also couldn't have become extinct, apart from evolution?

By the way, what does General Motors have to do with biochemistry?   ;D

T-A
« Last Edit: October 2, 2003, 05:46:43 PM by Tuisich-Anastari »
"A careful study of the Bible would convince many people that it is a very different
book than they assume it to be." --Loraine Boettner, The Reformed Doctrine Of Predestination

This post is dedicated to all those who never have a post dedicated to them.

Offline Farseer Ernham 17

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Re:Theology, Philosophy and Religion
« Reply #35 on: October 2, 2003, 07:09:56 PM »
Religious Freedom
   The United States constitution states that everyone who is a citizen of the United States is allowed religious freedom. But do we? Why do we try to convince other people that our religion is the only way? How many non-Christian politicians have we had? Is social standing in work and schools influenced by religion? Or doses the constitution really grants the American people the freedom of their own religion?
   Our constitution stares in its first amendment that; “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.” This statement means on one can persecute any one due to religious difference if and only if they are a citizen of the United States of America. This conflicts with some religions like Christianity.
In the bible: The book of Acts chapter 26 verse 18 says, “You are to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.” The Qu’ran says is chapter 29 verse 4, “He may punish hypocritical men and women as well as associating men and women who conjecture such evil about God; on them will fall an evil turn of fortune. God has become angry with them, and has cursed them and prepared Hell for them. How evil is such a goal!” Both of these readings encourage/tell their followers to convert others to their religion. This by law violates the first amendment to the constitution.
   Religion in politics is not supposed to be an issue, but it is. How many non-Christian politicians do we have in our government, congress, the House of Representatives, or the judicial system? Not many, in fact we did have any until the last 70 odd years even then we have had less that 50. It wasn’t until our 32 president that we had one that wasn’t Protestant. That was JFK he was Roman Catholic and we have had none since then. Do you see many Jewish, Muslim, or Buddhist people running for political offices? No you don’t. President Ronald Reagan said, “you might be interested to know that the scriptures are on our side on this” when defending his arms build up program.  One senator stated “why cant they just lay down there differences and settle this like good Christians” when asked about the fighting of Jews and Muslims. It wasn’t until a few years ago that the Supreme Court got rid the law that when a person testifies they have to put their hand on a bible and swear “to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help me God.” The bible not the Qu’ran not the Talmud but the bible this disagrees with our constitution. Even though Christians settled this country doesn’t mean others shouldn’t get the same say in how things are done.
   In school a few years ago students would say things were “Jewish” in a mocking manner. This upset many of my Jewish friends very much. Luckily that phases ended rather quickly, but it is not always this way. After September 11 many people were rather scared of Muslims and their religion. This thought has not been lifted out of the American people’s minds. Many people can not get a job from prejudice employers, or they get low paying and dirty jobs. When people deface or destroy religious property and are not persecuted is this religious freedom? No. Our rights don’t allow religious discrimination. But the American people still have a social standing influenced by religion.
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Offline WhiteCross

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Re:Theology, Philosophy and Religion
« Reply #36 on: October 2, 2003, 09:45:46 PM »
Attempted conversions to Islam or Christianity are not unconstitutional. The 1st Admendment simply states that Congress will not make official or unofficial religions. People are free to believe what they want. If a person decides that he wants to convert to Christianity, then the the man that converted him isn't a felon.

All it is is advertising. Missionaries are "salesmen" of Islam, Christianity, etc.
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Offline laun mo R

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Re:Theology, Philosophy and Religion
« Reply #37 on: October 3, 2003, 04:32:53 AM »
The beyound
 Harry Houdini, escape artist and medium debunker
promised to try to contact a seance every Oct 31.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-===--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=
Fossils and dinosaurs
sure the creator made them.  
The bible and other creation myths were not given to 20th century "us" directly you know.   :D
Try to describe to a preschooler how a car works.
Do you actually describe: transmission gear ratios,
rack and pinion steering, the explosions in the cylinders?
no, you explain the things that can be seen.  If your generous the things they can manipulate.



-=-=--=-==-=-=-==-=-==-=--=-=-=---=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Evolution
Be patient gods not finished with us yet.
      the creator can't use a template??
              I'm not gonna tell 'm that, you tell 'm  :-X

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Religous freedoms
most sentient beings can make up their own minds.

there is a trend to "look out for number 1"
and if you're not no# 1 be on his team.

besides different scares people.  It makes them (Gasp) Think, unless of course someone has done the thinking for them allready.

the truly sad part is the focus on differences.
how many creeds favor murder and theft?
how many creeds say love your neighbor (if not love, support)?

-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-==-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--
HHG
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Offline Sheepz

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Re:Theology, Philosophy and Religion
« Reply #38 on: October 3, 2003, 02:15:30 PM »
HS, you want a Bible based answer for fossils and dinosaurs yea, would you like that?

Dinosaurs

Dinosaurs were created in the creation, and named by Adam, they are found in the book of Job, with two names I am not clever enought to spell, but for those who know of the 3 Tyranid Hivefleets, they share names (not Kraken,but behomoth and leviathan or summat). They also give a good description of what they looked like.

Why are there no more dinosaurs? The larger, and more dangerous ones would not have been able to fit on the Ark when God sent the Flood, and so would have drowned, smaller ones would have probally died out due to climate change and continent shifting, as pre flood it was assumed all the continents formed one giant landmass, (and so people are spread across the world.) Before the flood, there was no rain, the earth was watered by mist, after the flood, the waters were gathered to the north and south and became frozen, while some areas became deserts. Climate change occured, and so Dinosaurs would have died out as a result of colder weather, rain, and lack of food.

Fossils.
Fossils were formed during and immediately after the flood. As the weight of floodwaters pressed down, and the earth's surface became slit and sandy, bones would have been pressed into this mud, and the weight, heat and pressure would have caused the mud to set firm over them and preserve them after the waters receeded. There are miles of uncovered seabed where things could lie, and carbon dating and such are know to be inaccurate, as if you ask four people to record the date of one thing, you will have varying answers.

The Ark today.

The Bible records that the Ark came to rest atop mount Ararat (sp) in Turkey, and was preserved in galcial ice. Members of mountain parties reported seeing such a dark box like shape under the ice, and a monastry at the foot of the mountain was said to have been made from looted boards, however, unfortunately an avalance destroyed the monastry and a nearby village. In the early twenthy century (1915 I think,) the Russians dispatched a party. For days they stood on the mountain, recording things, and taking photos. Some say they found the Ark, others say they didn't. No one knows, when the party made it back to Russia, the Czar (sp) was overthrown in a Revolution and replaced with an atheistic Communist government, and the whole mission was forgotten, and any recordings were destroyed. Present weather conditions make other expaditions unsafe at this time.

Offline HarlequinSolitaire

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Re:Theology, Philosophy and Religion
« Reply #39 on: October 3, 2003, 04:16:13 PM »
This is the same Bible which says that the world was created in 400BC, with these million year old carbon-fossils?
'An eye for an eye, and soon the world is blind'

Ghandi

 


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