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Offline forgotten hero

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Craftworld Daefaroth 1500pt List
« on: October 28, 2008, 07:26:08 AM »
Craftworld Daefaroth

Background:

Lurking on the outreaches of the universe a little and largely unknown craftworld lurks in the dark and murky shadows, this craftworld is unknown by many of its kin, many have only heard myths, legends and tails of this once majestic craftworld.

It has now fallen from the light and now lurks in the shadows, a fraction of the size when it was at its peak. The fall happened quickly and suddenly, without warning. The shockwave of the Slaanesh emerging for the warp killed all but a few unlucky survivors.

This craftworld is now more like a ghostship, lurking, wondering aimlessly in the dark reaches of the universe, it has turned down all help from other Craftworlds, only a few have been allowed the enter its space.

Many of its leaders now dabble in the powers, seen and felt by the tear in the warp, they seek to harness this strange and wonderful power felt by the tear. But they have not fallen into darkness or sold their soul to Slaanesh, they are still not finished with yet.

This Craftworld is becoming more active, this craftworld is on its way back to where it belongs, with renewed vigour and revenge in its blood, Craftworld Daefaroth will be back to take its seat with pride again at Eldar councils, safe in the knowledge they can use the power given to them as a gift from Slaanesh.

Craftworld Daefaroth (da-far-oth)

This craftworld has access to very few Aspect warriors, but, attracts many who have fallen from the path and some who are familiar with the warp. So relies on Harlequins, Guardians and Pathfinders, who make up the bulk of each army.

The craftworld with many fallen also pay homage to their past by waking Wraithbone constructs full of rage, perfect for battle!

But the craftworlds master piece is the alliance of Muagan Ra, and his craftworld Altansar. Muagan Ra has been seen on many battlefields with a few of his warriors from Altansar along side Daefaroths forces and has even lead many of Daefaroths strike forces into the abyss without question without remorse for fallen.








My list (Updated after UKGT Heat 1):
 
Daefaroth – Strike force 1500pts

HQ:

Muagan Ra – 195pts


Elites: 

7 Harlequins – 190
Shadowseer, Death Jester, 6x Kisses


Troops:

3 Jetbikes – 76
Shuriken cannon

10 Guardians  – 125
Scatter lasers, Warlock – embolden

10 Avengers  – 172
Exarch – defend, bladestorm, power weapon and shimmersheild
Wave Serpent  – 125
Scatter laser, shuriken cannon

8 Pathfinders  – 192


Heavy Support:

Wraithlord  – 155
Bright lance, missile launcher 2x flamers

Wraithlord  – 155
Bright lance, missile launcher 2x flamers 

Fire Prism  – 115

Total points = 1500

Infantry: 41
Vehicles: 2
-
The basic premise of this army is to hang back in a gun line, with the counter assaulters Muagan Ra and the Harlequins.

Muagan Ra will join any number of units; Pathfinders, for added support in combat and similar shooting capabilities. Harlequins to support shooting and he will remain invisible to the enemy at range. Guardians for similar roles as the others and last but not least, on his lonesome, cannot be instant killed, but would be a pain in the ass to shift, 2+ save. Would take some serious fire power to kill and unit shooting couldn’t shoot/assault anything else for the rest of the turn.

Harlequins- will hang back next to the Guardians and or Wraithlords for Wriathsight, and will be my main counter assault unit. Deathjester will be shooting away to make the unit look more deadly than it is at range anyways, plus he can take out light tanks, rhinos, raiders etc.

Jetbikes – cheep objective grabbing unit, I will keep these out of site until the later turns of the battle, using the Jump-Shoot-Jump tactic where possible, but in general avoid enemy contact where possible, and will probably try sneaking up one flank, IF the enemy has no out flankers. 

Guardians – cheep objective holding unit, with the added embolden on the Warlock to keep em in the battle, the scatter laser can chip away at enemy units until they close in, where in conjunction with the harlequins/wraithlords etc, pounce on the enemy, so can act as bait as well, if needed, a versatile unit.

Pathfinders – in missions like Seize Ground, it will be imperative I get good cover for these guys to hold my objective, while the rest of my army tries to defend them, then hoping the mobile elements of the list are still around, try to contest or even claim the enemy objective.  

Dire Avengers – my most versatile unit, more than handy at shooting, but will also act as a major obstacle in Combat, these will be the spear head of assault on the enemy objective(s). These has served me well in the past and I hope the future too.

Avenger Serpent – Will play a part in the Gun line Early/Mid battle, hence the upgraded Catapults, then scoot off objective grabbing contesting late game, the reason for no Spirit stones is simple, its not imperative anymore to have them, Skimmers are now better than normal tanks and with the downgrading of how bad an immobilised result us for us now, I no longer feel the need for em (plus there are only 2 results that require them, which is a lot less than compared to the last damage tables)

Wraithlords (2x) – My anti tank, plain and simple, I’ve taken them over more prisms because they are more consistent and over falcons because they are cheaper, plus they cannot be stunned and will act as back up in combats. Against hordes they have flamers and have even killed marines with a dual flamer burst.

Fire prism – I’ve taken a naked prism over everything else because it can dish out pain on the large scale to hordes, one thing I feel I must have is one of everything in a list (1 combat unit, 1 shooty unit, 1 sacrificial unit and 1 large blast – minimum) and this fills the last criteria nicely, its really cheep as well- bonus, It will hang back, really far back and shoot, trying to keep a low profile and keeping in cover, as I’m aware of how vulnerable it will be- plus I’m not expecting miracles from this baby, blast is way to random for my liking now, but I will persevere with it until I take the leap and take something else.   

I feel the list has all the elements to be a successful list,

1) Anti Infantry shooting; Avengers, Pathfinders, Fire Prism, Muagan Ra
2) Anti tank shooting ; Wraithlords, Fire prism(Secondary), Rending (Secondary)
3) Anti MC shooting: Pathfinders, Harlequins, Wraithlords, Fire Prism
4) Combat; Harlequins, Muagan Ra, Wraithlords, Avengers (Secondary)(Secondary)
5) Dual role; Dire Avengers, Muagan Ra, Wraithlords 
6) Super fast; Jetbikes, Avenger Wave, Fire Prism(Secondary to shooting)
7) Sacrificial; Jetbikes, Guardians, Wraithlords (Thrown into combat to slow enemy advancement on my Objectives)

I don’t feel it’s an overly competitive list at first glance, but with unit cooperation and solid tactics I can see it doing well. You may of noted I’ve added Muagan Ra into list of the Unit roles, as I class him as a unit all to his self really, 5 shots, 5 attacks on the charge insane!

So their you have it, my list in all its beauty- I’m quite happy with the list and will only really consider minor changers (Fire prism for example), but if you want to comment on how good/bad it is, feel welcome to do so!

Forgotten Hero   ;)

EDIT:

In light of the fact I would like my army reveiwed I'm going to add a few things below:

Army Weaknesses
1. I feel I lack a little anti-tank, late game especially, with only the Wraithlords providing any consistant fire. and I don't have lots of back up either with a Fire Prism (primary roll anti-infantry) rending at a push, but I do have lots of that, Pathfinders, Muagan and Death Jester.

2. A lucky scatter could ruin my day, Harlequins are fairly invulnerable, but a lucky scatter could lang on them killing many, so its something I have to think about, so I spread the unit, risking it being seen or do I keep it compact, risking a scatter that could hit all of them?

3. Only two tanks - my army only comes to the table with two tanks, so both will have to soak up more shots than if I had taken three or more, which is something I used to do.

4. With missions in mind- I only have two units that can theoritcally claim my opponents objective in the mission Seize Ground, one is the Jetbikes, the other Dire Avengers, although I have desgined a list to hold my own and contest the opponents (giving me the win).

5. Lack of units, I'm only taking 10, I don't give the opponents lots of targets, which is something I've tried to do in the past. But this does bode well for missions like Annihilation (Kill points).   
 
« Last Edit: October 29, 2008, 07:26:30 AM by forgotten hero »

Offline 40kfomPodmaster

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Re: Craftworld Daefaroth 1500pt List
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2008, 04:45:07 PM »
The list looks quite good - your reasoning behind "I must have X, Y & Z in my list" seems sound and committed. Above all though, i love the effort you've put into your fluff and background. Far too many Eldar lists are somehwat formulaic (DA in serpents, jetbikes, twin prisms, or the Eldrad / Yriel / Council type) just because the owners have seen other lists like it - far too "copycat". Real effort rather than slamming a list together - all power to you because of that, well done!  ;)

Offline Gutstikk

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Re: Craftworld Daefaroth 1500pt List
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2008, 05:17:35 PM »
I just realized I sent you a PM but I'm posting here too because some people miss the PM system of the forum at first. Mostly just wanted to ensure you got an invite to POC EO for your work developing your own craftworld is all. I think you've done an excellent job and I really enjoy your hq section [1 choice, and a phoenix lord on top of that!].

So yeah, hope you enjoy your stay here at 40ko.

Edited to include review:
Background: 1
This section is exceptionally complete, featuring an in-depth discussion of the history of the army behind the army list, it's intended opposition, the job each unit is to perform, and the environment it will be played in. I can get a clear idea of how this army is intended to be played, almost turn by turn, by reading through the information you've included. Perhaps my only bone of contention is tying Maugan Ra down for an infinite period of time with a particular craftworld; I'd like to see this handled more as representative of a specific period of time in Daefaroth's history. But that minor quibble aside, it's a pretty ace presentation of an army list, and worthy of the 1.0 the background section has obtained.

Composition: .75
The weak point in your list composition IMO is the lack of any fast attack selections in favor of two wraithlords. I can understand the need for it and as it is your only duplication it's not too big a deal, but... I disagree with Wraithlords with EML and BL as being a very good anti-tank option. Neither of these weapons eliminates cover, does much to armor 14, or pounds out enough hits to cripple a tank in a single go, even on penetrating hits. Additionally they are selected for reliable AT yet you have exactly one warlock. I just noticed you are using the shadowseer to deflect wraithsight, which is a novel idea to me. I've come around to your implementation as a result. However, you have still missed an important area of our FOC and are thereby passing up on opportunities which other units may not provide.

However, you have a very good contingent of scoring units and an excellent KP value, and your unit variety and role variety is very good within the limited number of units you are fielding. So, you get a .75 for composition.

Utility: .5
The serpent lacking stones gets in the way of it's ability to perform the objective-contesting role you've assigned to it, and is actually a lack of an essential upgrade rather than wise points-shaving. Also, keeping it in motion makes the second main cannon a bad investment. The jetbikes are not likely to do much of anything without a whole lot of luck, and they are far too easy to scare off - a single shooting wound will do it, meaning an AT gun when your vehicles are still offboard, moving fast, or dead. The shuriken cannon is not essential to a grab and go bike unit and will cause you to expose them unnecessarily at an inopportune time. The harlequins are one under where they ought to be; the loss of the scatter laser on the serpent, or the shuriken cannon from the serpent and the jetbike, should enable you to address this.

Additionally, the jetbikes and the harlequins are not optimized for morale.

The way you describe most of your units roles, I feel that you are not generally expecting too much from them, and they should be able to accomplish their goals in most cases while allowing you to advance your battle plans. I still feel the serpent is feeling conflicted with the added guns and the lack of stones, and additionally, if you read your goals for the jetbikes it seems like you plan on not using them whenever possible - a valid tactic, but not one that necessitates their inclusion. For instance, a few more pathfinders/rangers could potentially drop a monstrous creature in one round. the inclusion of the jetbikes in this list may not be warrented.

Flexibility: .75
Minor comments here. A spear on the guardian warlock makes them quite good at tanks [combined with the scatterlaser]. A good mix on infantry and fast elements by unit, though again, the jetbikes could probably be handled to better effect without the cannon. A good mix of quantity and quality units, with most units having multiple roles at their disposal. However, try to ensure that simple things, such as a 10 man tac squad with a powerfist in a rhino, won't answer for most of your units. I think you've accomplished this for the most part through your variety and unit builds. Your list is a little weak on certain vehicles but should be able to pull through.

Ingenuity: .75
I really like what you've done with lots of areas, the inclusion of a general plan of battle in an overall strategy, the consideration of some of your weakpoints and the shadowseer for wraithsight, which may not be new to others but II've never considered it before. Where this section could use improvement is specifics dealing with handling vehicles, which you see as one of your biggest threats. Especially those that can get 4+ cover with ease as they approach and don't need to survive to do their damage [think rhinos with smoke launchers and a nasty cargo]. If you can see a weakpoint so can your opponent, and turning it into a strength somehow would be a good move, as it is likely to be an opening the opponent will seek to exploit.

Final score: 3.75
You've got a very well-planned army with many competent selections, and provided you can control the flow of battle you should be able to achieve success with this army list. A great job for what is, as far as I'm aware, your first list posted on this forum.
« Last Edit: November 6, 2008, 11:33:39 AM by Gutstikk »

Offline forgotten hero

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Re: Craftworld Daefaroth 1500pt List
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2008, 05:42:28 AM »
The list looks quite good - your reasoning behind "I must have X, Y & Z in my list" seems sound and committed. Above all though, i love the effort you've put into your fluff and background. Far too many Eldar lists are somehwat formulaic (DA in serpents, jetbikes, twin prisms, or the Eldrad / Yriel / Council type) just because the owners have seen other lists like it - far too "copycat". Real effort rather than slamming a list together - all power to you because of that, well done!  ;)

Thanks for the comments Relentless,
 
Yeah I saw (is that the right one?) many 'copy cat' lists at the GT, not so many Eldar ones but dual lash 6 oblits was very popular.
 
I just wanted a unique list (well almost..) with some interesting fluff to back it up, I hope I suceeded in that respect. I've taken all the units I enjoy playing with, the fire prism can be fustrating (large blast scattering 8" into no-mans land for example  >:( ) but that in the end makes the list more fun and challanging.
 
I've also been playing way too long to play copy cat with lists, I know what works for me (unit wise),  have taken Dire Avengers in Serpent, Jetbikes and fire prism, but I've also taken some none common units in a competitive enviroment (Guardians, Maugan Ra, a large unit of Pathfinders + only one Fire prism).
 
But again, thanks for the kind comments!  ;D
 
Quote from: Gutstikk
  
I just realized I sent you a PM but I'm posting here too because some people miss the PM system of the forum at first. Mostly just wanted to ensure you got an invite to POC EO for your work developing your own craftworld is all. I think you've done an excellent job and I really enjoy your hq section [1 choice, and a phoenix lord on top of that!].

So yeah, hope you enjoy your stay here at 40ko.

 
Yeah I received the PM- lol looking forward slap on the wrists.
 
Thanks and I will enjoy my stay!  :)
« Last Edit: October 29, 2008, 05:44:08 AM by forgotten hero »

Offline moc065

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Re: Craftworld Daefaroth 1500pt List
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2008, 09:51:48 AM »
Daefaroth – Strike force 1500pts

HQ:
Muagan Ra – 195pts

Elites: 
7 Harlequins – 190
Shadowseer, Death Jester, 6x Kisses

Troops:
3 Jetbikes – 76
Shuriken cannon
10 Guardians  – 125
Scatter lasers, Warlock – embolden
10 Avengers  – 172
Exarch – defend, bladestorm, power weapon and shimmersheild
Wave Serpent  – 125
Scatter laser, shuriken cannon
8 Pathfinders  – 192

Heavy Support:
Wraithlord  – 155
Bright lance, missile launcher 2x flamers
Wraithlord  – 155
Bright lance, missile launcher 2x flamers 
Fire Prism  – 115

Total points = 1500

Infantry: 41
Vehicles: 2
-

moc-score

1.. Anti-tank potential: well I see a good mix of long, mid, and short ranged anti-tank, so overall I give it a 0.9
2.. Anti-MEQ potential: nice mass and some coordiantion and/or asault potential vs MEQ; but certainly not a lot of dedicated Anti-MEQ thus I only give it a 0.7
3.. Anti-Horde potential: Better than some; but some things coudl get improved as well so 0.7
4.. Ranged Firepower potential: What has little range has builtin mobility to get range, so very nice 0.8
5.. Assault potential: a little soft in the assault area 0.5
6.. Scoring Units / point level: 4 Scorig units; but one is super small, one is static (might be a bad thing) so overall its average 0.6
7.. Durability or Resilience: Not to soft overall due to combo's but it has the potential to fall apart easily so caution must be taken.. little things like Embolden, etc do help though, so 0.7
8.. Flexability: Yup, but its limited and smart opponents will know what to avoid and what to go after... its a little predictable so overall 0.7
9.. Mission Capabiliy: for sure, good number of scoring units, not too many KP's, specific tough stuff to work with weaker elements... overall 0.8
10. Dynamics and/or Theme: I am not sure what the them is, and I read the stuff a few times... It looks like all the bases ar covered; but nothing is being abused or exploited so overall I just rate it 0.7...

Rating = 7/10.. It looks like a low score; but I think that in the right hands, this list could actually play like an 8 or even a 9/10... its got some nice hidden gems; that are tough to gadge outright. Sorry to not be a defined as I normally am.


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« Last Edit: November 5, 2008, 02:54:02 PM by moc065 »
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Offline Gutstikk

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Re: Craftworld Daefaroth 1500pt List
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2008, 12:25:34 PM »
I'll post a real review into this thread eventually once I'm ready to bebin that madness again, as it's very deserving of a thorough critique. But for now I'll just give you my thoughts on the list as an army list:

For starters, even though its refreshing to see no farseer, the list would benefit from the inclusion of Doom. Especially with the rending options you have. Avengers and guardians are also quite a bit more deadly when they benefit from Doom. So you may be stuck applying much more force in battle to specific threats than you'd otherwise have to.

The wraithlords form one good assault block together, while the harlies and maugan ra form another. Mixing the two may not be the greatest as an opponent capable of throttling the harliesw will force fearless checks on wraithlords where they'd be safe otherwise. Of course, if the enemy is of S lower than 5 after bonuses, you needn't worry about that and the two can work together as needed.

The jetbikes are all right. I almost prefer units of 5 avengers for sacrificial purposes but the avengers won't be making last minute objective grabs to be sure.

You have a fair amount of S6 firepower, which will be helpful, but not alot in the way of low AP shooting [especially AP1, which is missing from the list altogether]. You may need to chew your way through enemy tanks as a result. Just be sure that if the vehicles are a threat you apply the required force to eliminate it, as you may not have many chances.

I largely agree with a good deal of your own analysis, and while I might do some things differently given your constraints, they would be minor preferential changes [serpent upgrades, trimming some other fat, and boosting some of those units or doubling up]. All that being said I don't think you really need much advice on this list at all, and once I've got my new crit style hashed out and ready to go, I'll evaluate it from there. I hope the list works out for you though - it's a refreshing approach.

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Re: Craftworld Daefaroth 1500pt List
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2008, 03:54:24 PM »
First, congratulations on the background.  Normally, I would have quite a bit to say about including Harlequins and Maugan Ra, but the fact that you have created a good narrative to explain why you have access to these options, and how they fit in with your Craftworld means that I don't have anything to say, other than you have written it very well.

If you decide to join POC:EO, you'll be able to flesh out the details, and post your background in the Eldar projects forum once you've reached 100 posts.

As for your list, I agree with Gustikk that a Farseer with Doom would be helpful, but finding the points could be tricky.

I also have concerns about the Jetbikes and Fire Prism.

Squads of three Jetbikes are nothing more than easy kill points in my view.  They are not very good at taking objectives either due to their lack of durability.  I feel that you need a squad of five (minimum) for them to be of any use.

Fire Prisms tend to be at their best in pairs, so I would tempted to drop it, and spend the points elsewhere.  Maybe another Guardian squad?  Perhaps not the most effective option you could take, but one which would be in keeping with your background, and Guardian squads tend to work better in pairs than on their own.

One last comment is that your Wave Serpent needs Spirit Stones.  It can't afford to get a crew stunned result, as this will slow down your attack, and potentially leave the Serpent as a sitting duck as well.

I hope that helps.
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Offline forgotten hero

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Re: Craftworld Daefaroth 1500pt List
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2008, 06:08:20 AM »
Firstly thanks Moc for agreeing to critque my list at some point.
 
Secondly thanks Gutstikk and Irisado for reviewing my list:
 
I do also agree that Doom would be a great inclusion in the list, the only problem as mentioned it finding the points.
 
Now both units I would consider my 'weak links' are the Fire Prism and Jetbikes, if I dropped both this would give me 191 pts, enough for said Farseer and a unit of Guardians - as mentioned Spirit stones, I don't think these are mandatory any more, with the new Vehicle Damage Table, but they are still handy and if I'm relying on one unit to be mobile enough to claim enemy objectives then I would include Spirit stones, but other wise I doubt it.
 
Another option is to drop the Fire Prism for more Jetbikes and leave doom out of the equation (I do like my painted Farseer though) spending the points on 2 more jetbike and jetbike warlock with either embolden or destructor and more Guardians.
 
Not sure which option I would prefer tbh, your opinions wanted!
 
Quote from: Gutstikk
I hope the list works out for you though - it's a refreshing approach.

 
Awesome, thanks mate, will post some bat-reps once I've played a few more games with it.
 
Quote from: Irisado
First, congratulations on the background.  Normally, I would have quite a bit to say about including Harlequins and Maugan Ra, but the fact that you have created a good narrative to explain why you have access to these options, and how they fit in with your Craftworld means that I don't have anything to say, other than you have written it very well.

Cheers!! I've bearly written any fluff before, so I'm glad you liked that, I'm really eager to expand my Craftworlds alliance with Altansar and what the other C/Worlds make of it. I have already joined the POC:EO - cannot wait to get to 100posts!
 
Thanks for the comments- Will post an updated list in the future once I've played this one to death and worked out where it's flaws are and how it suits my gaming style!
 
Kind regards,
Forgotten Hero
 
 
 
 
 

 


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