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Offline Kaminari

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Alaitoc Warhost (1750) on Ghost Con
« on: February 11, 2007, 02:54:46 PM »
edit:
added unit explanations and strategy for a better picture of this example Alaitoc army



1 Avatar                                                                          155
The HQ was one of the last choices. It's about the decision for a Farseer with Doom to support the Avengers and Snipers or to create a fearless block of footsloggers. Footies are always in danger of getting gunned down or being wiped by a combined attack by Fast Assault troops. Along with the excellent attack-stealing ability the longer range of the Avenger guns allow you to create a big area of threat around the center of the field. They cannnot be ignored completely due to damage output and they cannot be removed quickly due to fearless either!
The Avatar forces the opponent to closely think about what to shoot first (prevent Prisms and Falcon from shooting or accept massive Shuriken Fire from turn 2 on. Along with the Avengers he is an anchor that makes elite assualt troops to calculate expensive casualties or stop a swarm rush.


6 Fire Dragons  incl. Exarch + Dragon’s Breath, Crack Shot      113
This is the unit for heavy anti-tank duties. I prefer the Dragon's Breath along with Crack Shot each time I have the points for it. It causes a higher number of wounds allowing you more infantry kills than the single shot fusion gun and rerolls are much more effective than additional attacks/shots. The remaining guns of the unit are still sufficient to down a tank. Here comes the other bonus of the flamer: If the regular dragons just downed a transport / forced the passengers to get out (after a penetrating hit), the Exarch can fire his flamer at the tank and "accidentally" cover several cowered models around the exit hatch in the same shooting phase.

5 Pathfinders                                                                    120
5 Pathfinders                                                                    120
Pathfinders have been selected over Rangers just because of the improved cover save and increased mobility to get into better cover- / firing positions. The additional AP chance only gets significant along with Doom. Nevertheless they cause an occasional casualty, forcing pinning tests. Focus on expensive/threatening squads. Don't fear just withdrawing them behind the terrain in case an assault team broke through as they are mainly seen as point denial. When being only slightly annoying they tend to get forgotten by the opponent so you can proceed capturing objectives with their Fleet of Foot rule the last two turns.
By downgrading one team to Rangers and removing the Vyper you could also try to add a Doomseer impairing your tank hunting and versatility though.


10 Dire Avengers incl. Exarch, Double-Catapult                      137
10 Dire Avengers incl. Exarch, Shimmershield, Defend             162
Their main benefits have been addressed in the Avatar section as they are to be teamed. The defend team slightly put forward to receive the charges while the other is in for fire support. Their numbers and range allow for some horde control. When they reach the center fo the board along with the Avatar they can almost cover the whole board with shuriken fire.

4 Shining Spears incl. Exarch, Starlance, Exp. Pilot, Withdraw   202
If the Avengers/Avatar got locked in combat it's the Spears who are in to make the decision. Alternatively they can do a combined charge with them or the Spiders giving you a chance to fire at the opponent with their weapons. When using them combined with other units it allows you to withdraw from combat in the same turn already sparing them their ineffective second round (which tends to get powerfist-heavy) and hide behind the close-combat screen. This should be doable by the quick removal of opposing fast units as detailed in the strategy section. If you use them on their own only they are about to get killed inevitably not only by shooting, but also in close combats as the absence of the Lance-Autarch removes a lot of attacks. This can be seen in the tourney report repeatedly.

6 Warpspiders incl. Exarch, Withdraw, Surprise Assault,
   Double Spinners, Powerblades                                          184
Powerblades and Withdraw to work as a close combat support unit. The Spiders are usually the staying part in a close combat if tag-teamed with the Spears. With Avengers close behind they can leapfrog via Withdraw to a firing position for their next target. The large unit of Avengers in close combat can also be a good cover for a secondary jump if it would be better to punish a enemy by Weaver Fire. The surprise assault should only be used if the board is low on terrain or there are indirect fire weapons that need to be taken care of or for banishing exited Harlies.

1 Vyper with 2 Shurikencannons                                           60
Multi-Purpose unit. Primary aiming for side armour it is overall so versatile you should read it yourself: <a href="http://www.40konline.com/index.php?topic=156227.msg1879545#msg1879545" All hail the Vyper!</a>

Falcon with Scatterlaser, Holofield, Spirit Stones                     175
The Scatterlaser is most effective for hunting light vehicles due to its additional shot and increased range compared to the Shurikencannon. No additional weapons purchased as this frontline vehicle gets shaken continually. For transporting the Fire Dragons into the best shooting positions available. After delivery you might fall back to a secure position again with the 24" move after being shaken to get after vehicles again the following round.

Fire Prism with Holofield, Spirit Stones                                   160
Fire Prism with Holofield, Spirit Stones                                   160
Deepstriking units is dangerous with a Fire Prism on board and murderous with 2 of them ready to fire. Equipped for better survivability they should primarily go after (heavy) infantry with their big blasts and do vehicle hunting only secondary due to their low number of hits. Nevertheless it might be required to use the high strength long range fire power to shoot at a hidden Plate Thrower at the beginning until your more dedicated anti-tank units can get into position to deal with it. Keep in mind that they use just a single to hit roll and if the dice are failing you repeatedly with them you have a lot of points out there doing nothing. The same result can be achieved by an opponent directing his anti-tank fire to simply shaking them. Therefore set them up defensively and make use of their range and agressively hunt down specific targets after turn 3.

Total:                                                                            1748


General Tactics and Unit setup
This is basically a 3-part army: Avatar and Avengers form the Core (Anvil), Fire Prisms and Pathfinders the backward firebase and Spears, Spiders, Falcon, Dragons the mobile part (Hammer).
Start setting up the Fire Prisms defensively and react with the Dragons in the Falcon towards worthy targets, in certain circumstances you might be able to unload the Dragons first turn already and shoot other targets with the Falcon meanwhile.
Avatar and Avengers should almost always be setup at the middle of your setup area so that they can create the biggest area of threat when marching forward.
Against aggressive armies (e.g. Blood Angels, Tyranids) do a fully backward setup at your table edge instead. That's when the Prisms should go Genestealer hunting from turn one on, using their mobility to get past the monstrous-creature-hideout.
If there is no terrain covered approaching tunnel for the Spears at one flank to boost through, it's best to hold back the Spears until the first Close Combat has been created or the most dangerous weapons in your area have been eliminated. Accompany them with the Spiders.
The Vyper is your Joker to either sneak into the enemy's deployment zone, go for side armours, or in worst case act as target priority victim and mobile terrain. Usually it flies around with the S&S-team.
Everything is basically about holding a center to restrict movement and start hunting dangerous / valuable units with your mobile part. If the anchor gets denied by a kill on the Avatar the resources bound there allows your mobile units to suffer less fire and attack the other expensive parts of the army (see Tyranid game). 


Dilemmas posed to your opponent:
- three tanks and Avatar to chose for your anti-tank weaponry
- get Vyper or Spears or Spiders?
- can't catch Spears/Spiders in CC
- take time to shoot Avengers to the last man or get locked in combat?
- fire on Avengers or let you go the units' anti-tank weapons after the tank and risk Shuriken hail?
- focus on Falcon with Dragons or shake the Prisms in the first rounds?


Tourney Report

1st Mission: Seek and Destroy against Joe (Clubhead) with not-that-Godzilla-Tyranids

Terrain was only few terrain on the table similar to the 5 on a dice with another piece in the middle of my side. The center piece was impassable terrain, all other LOS blocking. I started with setting up my Grav Tanks behind the left, middle and right terrain and watched where the Carnies rested. They were both setup in hard cover on the left and the right side of the table. As my right side gave a slightly better shooting corridor I setup both Avenger units there forming a triangle with the table edge, adding the Avatar there. Spears at the left with the Falcon to deny the flank if required and the Spiders in Reserve due to the lack of terrain. The Genestealer-boss and retinue in the middle along with the rest of the Hormagaunt and Termagaunt horde, center and right Venators, and a 6 Warrior-Squad  winged with Rending Claws on the left, guarding the Support-Fex, two Gunfexes and the Zoanthrope (mostly out of range against my standard troops) while the Winged Hive Tyrant guarded the other Support-Fex. Rangers were setup in the middle and left side for providing support fire.

Let them come! He got first turn, charged forward, my attempt to isolate the Broodlord for the Pathfinders was eradicated by both Prisms being unable to hit. The Winged Warriors threatened my movement in the whole area, therefore Falcon, Dragons and Spears approached and killed them. The Avengers moved a little backwards, firing a volley and eradicating another Warrior unit. Dragons got attention from Hormas and Termas, steering towards them and removing pressure from the Avengers.  The Spears and Vyper got annihilated by the Hard-Cover-Carni-Band, Hive Tyrant and the Hormagaunts approaching on the other side to my tarpit units.  Spiders arrived and assisted the Fire Dragons in eliminating the Zoa, Swarms and took the charges of the Gribblies. Via Withdraw they killed all of them, while the Giants feared the Falcon. The Prisms annihilated the Broodlord’s retinue and a Horma-unit and I could force unwanted movements due to interrupted Synapse-range. The Avengers fired a volley at the Tyrant, the Avatar charged him and the Avengers got charged on the other hand. By eliminating the Tyrant the next turn the whole flank was without Synapse support and crumbled, beaten and gunned down by the Avengers who took only a few losses over the turns. I ignored the monsters and eradicated each other model on the field with the Prisms and the Avengers. When the game was called I won with 18-2 points.

Most valuable units: Avatar, Dire Avengers
Disappointed by: Shining Spears


2nd Mission: Recon against Odysseus with Tyranid Genestealer Force (best painted army). From now on visitors got interested in my games and gathered around the table.

Same table, same terrain setup, same side, same setup strategy. Two Carnies in the two terrains on his side, two Genestealer units on the right, Hormas in the center, Venators on the right and in the center, Zoa supporting the left Fex, Warriors the right Fex. Broodlord with retinue in the middle, Winged Tyrant on the right. I got the first move (first time against Tyras ever!) and the Prisms eradicated the retinue and took a third of the other Genestealer unit. My Avengers approached carefully a few inches to get a volley at the other Stealers and attempt the shuriken-blazing retreat. Unfortunately the Venator on the right fleeted 6” and just barely got into close-combat with the Avengers, killing the plan by keeping them in combat. Killed was also one Prism by the right Carnie. Dragons and Spiders (Deepstrike) did again fight the Zoa and occupied the Carnie with the Falcon, Broodlord got sniped again. The Avatar did a huge fight against the Genestealers and Warriors, killing the Stealer unit while the other one, The Tyrant and the Hormas slowly ate through my Avengers. The Spears brought the Tyrant down to one wound and retreated again to repeat. Finally I could not get through the Warpfield save. I forgot about the time and had positioned the other Prism in my half instead of his deployment zone when the game was called. The Tyrant or the Prism could have made it a draw, so it got a close loss: 8-12

Most valuable unit: Avatar
Disappointed by: Shining Spears


3rd Mission: take and hold against Wolfslord with Witchhunters

His setup did benefit me in my usual plan to divide his forces and hammer units I choose with my terms: two Rocket-Tanks behind a wood in his center, isolated Rhino with unit bearing the ONLY Melter waiting for its chance on the Prism. Isolated Soro unit behind the hill on the right, Seraphim units between the tanks and next to the Rhino, the rest setup in the wood with heavy bolters.
I setup Avengers in the center wood on my side, hiding my tanks and Vyper in cover. Avatar and Spears in the center, Spiders in Reserve again due to lack of terrain and Callidus being around. I got first, destroyed the Rhino with my Vyper, one Rocket tank with the Falcon, the other one got shaken by the Prism, the other hit his Heavy Bolter team. My center block approaching the tiny mission target. The HB’s hit one Avenger team severly but the Avatar made them keep their faith and hide behind the target.  The other team went after the isolated Sisters along with the deepstriking spiders, killing one third of them. Avatar charged one Seraphim unit wiping them out, the Shining Spears in the center who had control over more than half of the table charge his weaker Chief Sister and killed her. The other tank was eradicated immediately, the remaining Seraphim Squad decimated by the Prism. The game was almost a massacre by turn 3 but then a cunning use of acts of faith and awesome save rolling on his side kept him in the game, e.g. Spiders were annihilated by a single bolter volley (DS1) of his decimated isolated squad; Fire Prisms firing at the same units killing not a single model; his boss Seraphim fighting the Avatar for three(!) turns, etc. I lost concentration and did not focus on sending multiple units at the same target, allowing him a comeback. The tanks survived each Melterbomb, Eviscerator attack and moved out of range continuing laying fire. The Assassin finally killed the Avengers but his faith points vanished and it got a major victory: 19-1

Most valuable Unit: Fire Prisms
Disappointed by: my lack of concentration leading to the unnecessary destruction of the Shining Spears


4th Mission: Standard Battle against DOC’s Close Combat oriented Space Marines. He and the players on the table next to us were playing for the tourney victory.

I won the roll for the table side and chose the quarter providing the best cover for my tanks in the first turn (Eldar habit). Set them up accordingly, the Falcon at the center to gain field control with the Fire Dragons as he was fielding a vehicle heavy army (Land Raider Crusader, Predator Destructor, 2 Landspeeder Tornados, AC-AC (Assault-Cannoned Ancient Cybot), Lasercannon-Razorback). Las/Plas-Plas Teams in the woods / hills and an Assault Team with Priest in the LR, the other similar team with Jump modules. Avatar at the back of the woods in my center, Avengers nearby. First turn I was able to do the dream move of an Eldar player: move the Falcon towards a cluster of tanks, unload the Dragons, TRASHING the Land Raider. The Prisms fired both at the Cybot unable to penetrate his front armour but killing a surviving HQ marine from the Raider each. Vyper was held back for the inevitable Tornados while the Spears relocated to the Avatar. The Stormtroopers flew a circle to get into my flank and separated themselves from the rest (yes!). All my tanks got shaken by Speeders and tanks in his turn, the Cybot not shooting at the Fire Dragons but charging them to speed towards the neutral quarter and cover. Too bad that the Fire Dragons have a higher initiative and they rolled successfully for their Melterbombs: BLAM! In my turn the Dragons approached the Predator on foot, readying the Fusion Guns: MOLTEN! The Spears hurried to support them against the inevitable charge by the HQ, the tanks retreated into cover, the Avengers and the Vyper geared towards the center, firing at the Speeders, leaving them unable to shoot. I did move the Spears too risky when I tried to keep them in coverof the Raider against the Marines on foot as the charging remnants of the HQ simply overran the Dragons into the Spears who got killed the next turn by the infuriated Priest. Avengers found themselves on the wrong side of several Plasma Cannons but were in reach of the Avatar.
Time for distraction! I hurled him towards the enemy allowing him charges on multiple units the next turn. Falcon moved parallel to the God of War and shut down a Speeder, the Vyper circled the wood from the other side and killed the other one The Prisms destroyed the Razorback and reduced the Assault Squad, which was taken under fire by Deepstriking Spiders and both Avenger teams and the Pathfinders, leaving nothing but dust. From now on it was simple cleanup-duty. Prisms twinlinked their shots out of reach of the Marines, vaporizing them, Spiders catching the Plasma Cannon Troops in Close Combat, the Avatar being shot in the back by a single Bolt Pistol Round of the Priest and therefore never reached combat this game but sucking up lots of fire for a crucial turn with the Avengers in the open. That priest and his powerweapon wielding comrade killed the Avengers finally and were Tag-Teamed to death by the Prisms immediately afterwards. Nothing on the board from his side, absolute massacre, the first one he experienced at all with his tourney army:
20-0

Most valuable unit: Fire Dragons and Fire Prisms
Disappointed by: Shining Spears again.


The last game surprisingly provided sufficient victory points to make me the tourney winner. Lucky me!  :)

Lessons learnt:
-   I should play more cautiously to avoid unnecessary losses.
-   Avatar and two Avenger Squads are a block and have a formidable range of threat over the gaming table
-   Shining Spears should better be accompanied by an Autarch on bike, otherwise their low attacks and mediocre WS will betray you.
-   Keeping movement control is top priority
-   You cannot train for tourney victory; you need luck to get the right opponents for the right missions for your army, on the right terrain table.

May the dice be with you!
 :)
« Last Edit: February 14, 2008, 10:00:49 AM by Kaminari »

Offline Valygor

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Re: Alaitoc Warhost (1750) on Ghost Con
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2007, 04:39:22 PM »
Very nice report and congratulations on the win! I really liked the fact that you used a lot of the same units that I do and I was wondering about adding shining spears so thanks for awnsering that one for me as well. ;D

Offline Redlion

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Re: Alaitoc Warhost (1750) on Ghost Con
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2007, 07:32:24 PM »
Yes congrats on the win man, way to go. Thanks for posting this as well.
While I have never used spears, and still think they are a little bit too expensive for my liking. I am not surprised they didn't do as you expected. You only had 4 of them.

I think they might be more useful in, or as a counter assault unit.
IE, they could have hung back with your avengers. I think they might have served you better there. I am not sure since I've never used avenger, pathfinders, spears, not prisms, lol.

However for this particular army of yours. Them coupled with the Avatar, could have made a very decent counter assault threat. Yes that does leave units like you dragons, and spiders somewhat in a lurch though. Also I know what your overall plans were, your avenger unit was designed to be a tarpit. Which is fine.

Your army is mainly fire based though. I am thinking some harlies or banshees could perform a similar role for your avengers, if only you had the extra points. Plus maybe your spears with another member, and as you pointed out, an Autarch. Yes that could be a very effective, and powerful army. However you don't have the points to add all that stuff. I like your army, but if you drop your spears, hmm. How will you support those spiders, and dragons ? Yes they can help support one another, like they did in one of your games at least, coupled with the pathfinders. However then you won't have a very fast counter assaulting unit is what I am trying to say. So dropping them, hmm.

I don't know man. You won the tourney as is, even though you may have not been as pleased with their performance as you would have liked, they did offer additional support to your dragons, and spiders.

I guess my biggest question would be if you drop them, what will you add in their place ?

I think I might even drop 3 avengers to get at least another one man. However you have used them, and know about them more than I do. Thats a chunk of points for that unit. You could beef your spiders up, and add another unit, of either harlies, or banshees, even storm guardians. You could also use a small regular jetbike squad with a lock, and destructor, and spear. So I think you have plenty of options if you want to drop them. I am just curious what you will replace them with though really.

Anyway congrats again, and definitely good luck on your future battles.

Offline Kaminari

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Re: Alaitoc Warhost (1750) on Ghost Con
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2007, 03:37:29 AM »
Thanks for your feedback. I saw the Spears as emergency response team. Go to a critical battle of the field and assist units in trouble. I didn't bring them to full effect in the games, the Autarch is definitely required for this style of play. As simple counter-assault they were used just once and they did moderately against the hive Tyrant, only used this way they would have been wasted points, a less mobile unit like Banshees could have fared better then.
The army would need an overall redesign to act in concert if I remove a key unit like the Spears or the Avatar. Or I have to find the correct playstyle for the new development.  :)
Therefore I cannot tell a solution right now, but will introduce a new list and tactics in the tactics board when I think the assembly is worth discussing.


edit:
Per request added fluff for this army.


Warcry of Khaine

When the Rangers found the Enemy
When the Pathfinders, locked him down by Sabotage
When Spider's Webs sneak through Warp
When the Dragon's Fire hisses in Fury
When the Machines of War roar their Engines
When same surpassed by strepitous shouts

Then the Avengers awoke the Avatar
Then Khaine's Shining Spearheads are thrown
AND ALAITOC AIMS AT YOU!

"Warcry of Khaine" is an Alaitoc Warhost style army. This ancient song above, heard in the halls of Alaitoc, describes the slow transition from the distant, cool, self-controlled Craftworlder to the immediate, ferocious tool of destruction hauled at the enemy. At the same time it describes the escalation of conflict and at the time you are wondering about the series of mishaps the Warhost is upon you.

Led by the personification of the Eldar's God of War alone, battle becomes an almost religious act allowing the Aspect Warriors to keep a certain distance, calm down again after this divine service, return to their original personality again. Each unit has got an Exarch with them who supervises his comrades recognizing any indication that an individual might fall to the trap of the path of the warrior forever like he did. Alaitoc tries to avoid the use of civilians and relies on the "war professionals", the Aspect Warriors instead.

The Avatar demands the best and the large forges of Alaitoc are opened as the smybol of the god gets awakened. The Starstriders descend from the sky via Vampire Raiders, the Falcons and Prisms doing an high altitude drop relying on the Holofield covering their approach through the night sky as well. The Shining Spears are transported by a low-altitude speeding Raider right before the beginning of battle and when you see the aircraft surpassing your heads, fire has been opened and the Shining Spears are racing towards you like the Spear of Khaela Mensha Khaine thrown as an official declaration of war.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2008, 09:24:44 AM by Kaminari »

Offline Gutstikk

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Re: Alaitoc Warhost (1750) on Ghost Con
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2007, 10:24:29 AM »
You do have spiders with withdraw, perhaps using them in conjunction with
the spiders to gain an attack bonus.  Both these units move back 3d6 if I am
not mistaken so that even if you kill everyone in your turn, you have a fair chance
of escaping safely, correct?

If you decide to go that route though and keep them with the spiders the loss
of 1 spear [down to 3?] will give you a few extra points you may be able to use
better elsewhere.  I feel like spears try to do in assault what starcannons do better
in shooting phase.  But when a combined charge with multiple withdraw units is
in effect those things can change.

Good job on the win!  Victory always comes as a surprise when it is a victory worth winning.

edit - this is way after the fact, but for the sake of completeness in a project thread, I am editing in a critique below, using my 5/5 system. Unfortunately this is going to be a very brief version, but given the age of the thread relative to my commentary, it wouldn't be right to go further.

Background: 1
Good explanation of how and why you've built this force, keeping the tournament as the primary focus of your list-building while adhering to your Alaitoc theme.
Composition: 1
A wide variety of units selected with a good distribution of points throughout the FOC, while covering all bases of your game.
Utility: 1
Almost every unit is streamlined to perform its particular role, with justification given in the case of the Spiders and Dragons as to why this is not the case. Very few points sunk in unnecessary upgrades.
Flexibility: .5
As is often the case, a list with a high degree of utility suffers from some unit flexibility loss. Some units will be much less useful if you face a monotype army [amm MCs, all bikes, all termies, etc]
Ingenuity: 1
Very clearly spelled out strategies including unit by unit and overall goals, with a consistent strategic approach to the whole and its parts. Also, some thought has been given to the opponent's considerations as well, something many do not consciously acknowledge when posting army lists. You've earned the rare +1 Ingenuity!
Total: 4.5 of 5, for an "Excellent" rated army list. Nicely done!
« Last Edit: March 17, 2008, 12:27:21 PM by Gutstikk »

Offline Shas'Oink

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Re: Alaitoc Warhost (1750) on Ghost Con
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2007, 11:10:17 AM »
great work... but you have experienced the reason why i dont trust in shining spears.

they dissapointed you in each game, and with all those points invested in the unit one cant help but wonder the possibilities if they were re-directed to a different unit / s.

spears are no doubt a very expensive option... perhaps you were simply not getting the best use out of them, but then one must decide if spending yet more points there is a viable solution.

for the same cost, one can buy 5 wraithguard with a warlock!?

Offline Suithap

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Re: Alaitoc Warhost (1750) on Ghost Con
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2007, 11:30:33 AM »
I would concur with Oink. My use of shining spears has disapointed me about 70% of the time. Sure they sometimes get off that awesome charge, but they just have so few attacks that it is unreliable. Putting the autarch in there helps but also makes the squad very exspensive. I would maybe think of throwing in harlies or maybe even adding some vypers with scatterlasers, it looks like you could have 4 of them total instead. Congrats on the wins though! I don't like the tournie rules but you worked with them and created an effective force and played it well.
If its not broke, take a Mechanized Eldar list and break it.

Offline Kaminari

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Re: Alaitoc Warhost (1750) on Ghost Con
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2007, 11:33:01 AM »
I tend to incorporate both in the next version:
Wraithguard + Warlock + Serpent as replacement for the Fire Dragons
Use the Spear Squad along with an Autarch
I need to read the rules carefully: Can the Wraithcannons circumvent the Fast Speeder Rule?

I simply do like the speed that SS-squad has: I can react immideately on any threat around, e.g. a combat unit getting into my lines, my forward units got stuck intheir assault, etc. In the games this weekend I lost them due to bad positioning and due to their bad initiative/WS against power-weapon/MC/rending weapons of the opponent. Something the Autarch can help with, though they might become more like an expensive protection shield for the boss.  :-\
Another option would be to equip the Exarch with a Shuriken Cannon and have him go sniping like the small jetbike squads until the gets to his mission.

I did not yet use the Spiders to full effect as well. I think that I have to adjust my list more to my playstyle.  :)

Offline Shas'Oink

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Re: Alaitoc Warhost (1750) on Ghost Con
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2007, 11:42:43 AM »
your going to have to be very careful.

spider, spears, wraithguard and harlequins (with kisses) are some of our most expensive choices. using ALL in a single army could be asking for trouble.


its especially true of the spiders and spears. both units benefit greatly from an autarch in the unit. and generally, your not going to take two autarchs... so again, its a case of not really making the most of either!?

as a note, nothing gets through the skimmer moving fast rule. it always takes precedent even against things that could get get automatic penetrating hits. in short, you get hte penetrating hit but then the SMF downgrades it back to a glancing... this was in the "old" eldar FAQ.

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Re: Alaitoc Warhost (1750) on Ghost Con
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2007, 07:14:46 PM »
hey, congrats on the tournament win! (especially for coming back from behind like that). Way to smear that space marine guy  ;D

I'm not an eldar player, so I can't give you all that much advice, but I will say this: the two most valuable units (as you described them) were your avatar and your fire prisms. The least valuable unit was the shining spears. Thus, my recommendation is to dump the spears, and add units that can best support the fire prisms and the avatar.

Good luck!

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Offline moc065

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Re: Alaitoc Warhost (1750) on Ghost Con
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2008, 07:12:02 AM »
To the "Mod" --- I know this is an old thread, the point is that I am building a reference to a Project that several of us are working on Big list of Eldar lists and it was felt that this list showed some unique aspects we want to touch on, as well as actually being laid out in a decent format (which is part of the reason we are doing the project in the first place, as too many Eldar lists are just a bunch of number with Zero tacitcs, etc.)


HQ
1 Avatar                                                                          155
Elite
6 Fire Dragons  incl. Exarch + Dragon’s Breath, Crack Shot      113
Troops
5 Pathfinders                                                                    120
5 Pathfinders                                                                    120
10 Dire Avengers incl. Exarch, Double-Catapult                      137
10 Dire Avengers incl. Exarch, Shimmershield, Defend             162
FA
4 Shining Spears incl. Exarch, Starlance, Exp. Pilot, Withdraw   202
6 Warpspiders incl. Exarch, Withdraw, Surprise Assault,
   Double Spinners, Powerblades                                          184
1 Vyper with 2 Shurikencannons                                           60
HS
Falcon with Scatterlaser, Holofield, Spirit Stones                     175
Fire Prism with Holofield, Spirit Stones                                   160
Fire Prism with Holofield, Spirit Stones                                   160

Total:                                                                            1748pts, 12 Scoring Units, 55 Figures


moc065 Score (moc-Score): This is the rating that has given to the army list and will always be between 1 and 10 with: It will primarily focus on battlefield Effectiveness. To this end I will be looking for cross-team support and combinations, redundancy of ability, durability of firepower and survivability as a scoring unit coupled with a very critical eye on point effectiveness. The things evaluated will be as follows:

1.. Anti-tank potential: 3-4 dedicated anti-tank units, and 2-4 that can certainly assist out of 12 units is; Very Good (.9 )
2.. Anti-MEQ potential: it has a limited number of AP3+ or better weopons; but it dones have some nice weight of numbers units to help out as well, so overall I think its; Good (.8 )
3.. Anti-Horde potential: like I just mentioned, it has a number of wieght of numbers units and it also has some Template and "holding" potential as well; Good (.8 )
4.. Ranged Firepower potential: with a very nice mix of short, mid and ranged firepower it can certainly compensate for overall longe range so although it could certainly due with some added range, its still no slouch; Good (.8 )
5.. Assault potential: OK, lets be honest, with one real dedicated Assault unit it does lack here, I know that it has a number of decent "holding" units and the MC; but overall at this point level the assault is a weak point; Below Average (.4 )
6.. Scoring Units / point level: 12 Scoring units at 1750 is; Excellent (1 )
7.. Durability or Resilience: With a few really resilient units and a mix of some other stuff I don't think it lacks in this department, although there are some things that are a bit "Fragile", overall; Good (.8 )
8.. Flexability: when I first saw the list, I thought it was pretty basic; but, if you take the time to check some of the potential combo's (which Kaminari did explain a little - Fearless bubble, etc) I think that overall it should be more flexible than many people think; Good (.8 )
9.. Mission Capabiliy: with a nice mix of fast, medium, and slow units, several mounted and several foot-based I see that it shoud have potential in vertually any environment. It does rely on Cover or Terrain for its early usage in a game; but overall its still; Good (.8 ) 
10. Dynamics and/or Theme: As Kaminari explained the list is designed around making the Alaitoc shooting parts work within the rest of the list... and I do feel that he has done a good job of blending an Alaitoc feel with a synergetic army, overall I would say that the army theme, dynamics, synergy, and immagination are; Very Good (.9 )

Overall Rating 8/10; some may score it deifferently; but I think this list shows some unique Alaitoc things within a list that is certainly very functional and covers most aspects of the game well.

CaHG

« Last Edit: February 14, 2008, 10:30:29 AM by moc065 »
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Offline Zorb

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Re: Alaitoc Warhost (1750) on Ghost Con
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2008, 09:45:49 AM »
I suggest that you take out some of the more expensive units (like Spears) in favor of slightly-less-expensive units (like Spiders).  Spiders are nearly as durable and put out more hurting (with the exception of the Power Weapon) than the Spears - at ranged, anyway.

Your plan to replace Fire Dragons with Wraithguard isn't a very good one, to be honest.  My typical army list uses Wraithguard (since I don't actually own any Fire Dragons) and they are consistently ambushed and killed - despite their high durability, they are expensive and you cannot fit many of them into transports.  I'd much prefer a cheaper unit; Fire Dragons put out pretty much the same shots, after all, and are even better at blowing up tanks than Wraithguard (with the small exception of the Monolith).

Which unit you use as counter-assault (which is what you're currently using Spears for) really depends on your opponent - in my experience, Scorpions are amazing against everything short of monstrous creatures, terminators, and certain special characters.  They're not glass cannons, either - they would give your army a decent amount of staying power, provided you used enough of them.

 


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