Topic: Eldar is next.

[Fenris]

I must agree with Aurics pride, the Ulthwé stuff is disappointing.

To excessive dicerolling. the foresight of the damned could have been +1 on saving throws instead, and mind war could have skipped the roll off.

The stratagems are not bad, but they are only actually recycling psychic powers.

Allowing Autarchs to boost vehicles hit chances is great though, but the CP recycling is still excessive dice rolling, could just have given them +1CP. I wonder if multiple Autarchs allows you to roll multiple recycling dice though.

Edit: Autarchs boosted vehicles before too, (I thought it was only asuryani inf + bikes)

[Lord of Winter and War]

Ulthwe is pretty nice! An extra save is always a good thing to have, and if playing guardians, you'll get a lot of chances to roll some 6's.

For my custodian guard, my landraider and dreads get a 6+ bonus save, and it's been a game changer.

And, you'll always get use out of it, as you'll always need to take saves.

[Partninja]

White the let down for me as well. Guess I'm keeping my black guardians on the shelf. Deepstriking guardians was fun while it lasted.

[Lord of Winter and War]

White the let down for me as well. Guess I'm keeping my black guardians on the shelf. Deepstriking guardians was fun while it lasted.

You know, it could be one of the strategems in the book that allows it.

[Blazinghand]

I think the faction trait is actually reasonably solid. It might not seem as exciting as others, but having played against an Iron Hands Space Marines player who has a similar faction trait you actually see it working out pretty well. If it applies to all units (not just bikers and infantry, for example) this is actually pretty strong, saving you points on models that can take spirit stones, and giving the ability to some that can't take it even as an option (like War Walker or Wraithlord)

If there are a couple more ways to spend CPs on Black Guardians, or custom wargear choices for them, I think this would be pretty good. As-is, it doesn't feel that Black Guardians are that amazing, though the Discpline Stratagem seems nice.

[Looshkin]

I actually think that the things shown for Ulthwe are pretty solid. Are they exciting? No. But increasing survivability is huge. The ability to have a persistent way to negate 1/6 of all incoming wounds is useful. Combine it with stratagems at key times and it could make that 20 strong unit of Guardians into quite the movable rock...especially if the Runes of Fate/Battle are indeed expanded upon...you could end up having a 20 strong unit of guardians with 1 4++, with extra survivability provided through the psychic phase; any wounds that get through then have a chance of being wiped off. That could lead to a lot of gnashing of teeth very quickly.

I must agree with Aurics pride, the Ulthwé stuff is disappointing.

To excessive dicerolling. the foresight of the damned could have been +1 on saving throws instead, and mind war could have skipped the roll off.

You realise that the way that the Ulthwe trait works is actually better than what you're suggesting though, right? Not that you will save more models by doing the roll after the armour save, but because it doesn't specify only working on regular wounds. If it works on Mortal Wounds (which I think it does), that's far better...ask anyone that has played against Death Guard.

[Blazinghand]

The main danger of a 20-Elf Guardian Squad is that Guardians actually have quite bad Leadership. Even running 10-Elf squads on foot, I find myself facing a lot of difficulty from morale tests. It's not too uncommon for my opponent to shoot 8 models down, and rely on morale to clean up the last couple (and the weapon platform). This problem only gets worse with 20-Elf squads because someone could plausibly shoot, say, 12 of the Guardians dead and rely on morale to reliably wipe out the rest.

I've been getting by with Embolden and the Inspiring Leader Warlord Trait, which boost Guardian Defender Ld high enough that on a 10-Elf squad it's rare for morale to be a problem. For a 20-Elf squad, though, we lack the mechanics that the Orkz have for their large squads to handle leadership, and we don't have Commissars like IG do. If you want to use large squads of Guardians, kinda paradoxically, Iyanden (which supposedly has limited elfpower available) is best suited for running a bunch of 20-Elf squads in terms of rules.

Of course, all this can be avoided by taking an Avatar.

[Fenris]

@Looshkin & Blazinghand: yes the 6+++ is better than a bonus +1 to the save, but not for farseers or the Avatar of Khaine, which are two of units that you usually mostly want in an Ulthwé army.
I'm really starting to think someone in charge, got the craftworld traits mixed up with eachother.

[magenb]

Got to be honest I am pretty disappointed with the Ulthwe rules, their craftworld trait is a poor mans disgustingly resilient and really won't make a huge deal of difference in my opinion.

It blurrs the line between Ulthwe and DE troops lol.

Yeah all seems meh for them, mind war could be nasty if you pair it up with some leadership things, but stopping powers seems a little too easy, hopefully we'll see some buffs to our psykers to make it worth while.

[MechTau]

I think Alaitoc are going to be lazy and just 100% copy Alpha Legion.

So they'll be camo cloaked at 12" or more, and you'll be able to spend 1 CP to infiltrate a unit.

Watch this space.

[Blazinghand]

I hope we get some kind of change to Rangers. Somehow they just don't seem to be cutting it presently. That being said, if they had an additional -1 to hit for Alaitoc, this would make Alaitoc Rangers pretty sweet. Will we see the return of Pathfinders?

[Looshkin]

I hope we get some kind of change to Rangers. Somehow they just don't seem to be cutting it presently. That being said, if they had an additional -1 to hit for Alaitoc, this would make Alaitoc Rangers pretty sweet. Will we see the return of Pathfinders?

My 20-odd Rangers and Illic certainly hope they get a buff. That said, I think that they do an ok job at the moment. If they dropped a couple of points though, I'd be more than happy.

I think that we might see Pathfinders; they'll be a fairly vanilla upgrade if they do reappear - probably + a few points per model and you get mortal wounds on a 5 or 6. Something like that.

I think it's almost a certainty that Alaitoc get some version of the Alpha Legion/Raven Guard.

[Aurics Pride]

Biel Tan time!

Another one that's a little underwhelming for me, will work very nicely when paired with Dire Avengers (which apparently have had a points drop) and Guardians but otherwise I can't see it being all that powerful.
I've also just caught sight of a leak of the remaining two and they are exactly as I had guessed what they were going to be. Alpha Legion.... Alaitoc is no surprise whatsoever but from a craftworld with so much character in the fluff it's really disappointing.

Got to be honest GW really isn't inspiring me recently, excluding the obvious massive power jump in the Guard Codex (And partially the Death Guard) all of the books just feel so lacking in character as they seem intent on basically copy and pasting bits into each book. I understand that the idea is to try and get some balance but at this rate I'd rather have 7th edition back, at least you had some fun formations etc.

[Rhyleth]

I'll be disappointed if there really are no new models - it's a shame the special characters in particular aren't getting new kits, but they're also needed for the Shining Spears (who don't even have the new bikes) and the Vyper could do with an update incorporating both the 3rd Ed. Guardian style and elements from the 7th Ed. jetbikes. I still like the model, but it's a bit bulky by the standards of later Eldar vehicle models. With new production techniques I feel they could finally do something more inspired with the Wave Serpent as well, bringing it closer to its Epic 40k incarnation - that too looks a bit too squat.

Rules-wise Iyanden is the obvious standout, but then again Eldar fail morale tests by 2+ points relatively infrequently (unless enough of the unit's already been wiped out that it makes little difference) so it may be less reliable than it looks.

The Ulthwe rule may be stronger than it appears, as it mitigates the Eldar's major drawback and also means you never need to pay for spirit stones again.

The main Biel-Tan rule seems useful only if Dire Avengers in particular are good enough to be a central feature of the army - though the shuriken reroll can certainly be helpful with Guardians. The new stratagems seem to favour Guardian-based play and the force shield is a nice nod to the Dawn of War games.

Mind War works the way it always has but is welcome to have back, though I'm not sure I'd often spend a power slot on it when it's less versatile than Smite and only a little more reliable.

The Avatar boosts seem pretty good but you'd need to devote a lot of CPs to it. Glad I picked up a FW Avatar as it looks as though the main model isn't changing.

[Fenris]

This look really depressing, good thing Avengers will get some well deserved points decrease.

+1LD is worthless on aspect warriors, especially if you bring Khaines Avatar.
Boost to shuriken weapons already exists from the PL's and the Autarch, less PL's and Autarchs for biel-tan is counterfluffy.

The stratagems are neat though very costly so you need an Autarch to recycle CP's, wait Autarchs other ability is useless when playing biel-tan

Feigned retreat is probably most useful for shining spears, while the court is for Banshees, you still need that Avatar close by to take full advantage of the court, combined with Jain Zar this would just be CC-overload, so noone would ever go near them.

The last stratagem is actually quite nice, if not for the small detail it only works in the fight phase, I have NEVER lost an Avatar in CC in my 20+ years of playing. Lascannons and missile launchers is what kills Avatars.

The only thing that could save biel-tan would be Avenger spam, with DAVU returning for mechanized lists.

[Lord of Winter and War]

Considering almost all units have shuirken weapons, I'll say beil-tan is pretty nice. Respawning the avatar is freaking amazing too. The avatar will be really hard to hit outside of melee, as he's a character, so it's nice to have.

If folks have their avatar being killed by heavy weapons, then something is wrong.

LD boost is not terrible. Nice to have, really nice for 5 man squads.

I'll be disappointed if there really are no new models

I don't know why you're suprised. No existing faction got new models. Just the new armies (death guard and primaries). I won't expect any existing factions to get any new models until all the codexes are all out.

[Partninja]

I don't understand the argument "most Eldar units have shuriken weapons". It does matter when their shuirken pistols aren't the focus of the unit in the first place or the alternate weapon (reaper Exarch shuriken cannon) is far inferior to their base option.

If I'm running Biel-tan, the bonus it gives to Guardians and jetbikes is meaningless as I'm focusing an Avenger core with aspect support. Avengers and Spears get great use from it, but they were already being supported by an Autarch or PL anyway...

It's not that it's a bad bonus, it's just most of the aspects don't really get to benefit from a trait meant for an aspect heavy list.

The stratagems are really nice though.

[Lord of Winter and War]

You will have shuirken weapons, so you'll be getting a bonus. Pistols are still relevant, as you can shoot them while in combat.

I do wish it was re-roll 1s to wound though, that'd be nice to help trigger bladestorm.

My guess for sam-han is ignore -1 to hit for shooting heavy weapons on bikes, and re-roll charges.

Altioc will get the obligatory -1 to hit beyond 12".

[Rhyleth]

Considering almost all units have shuirken weapons, I'll say beil-tan is pretty nice. Respawning the avatar is freaking amazing too. The avatar will be really hard to hit outside of melee, as he's a character, so it's nice to have.

If folks have their avatar being killed by heavy weapons, then something is wrong.

LD boost is not terrible. Nice to have, really nice for 5 man squads.

I'll be disappointed if there really are no new models

I don't know why you're suprised. No existing faction got new models. Just the new armies (death guard and primaries). I won't expect any existing factions to get any new models until all the codexes are all out.

The other armies all have at least some recent models except for the Imperial Guard. Most of the Eldar range dates to 3rd Edition, and the army has more resin infantry than any other. The Avatar, all of the special characters, the Warp Spiders and the basic vehicle frames for the Vyper, Spear jetbikes, and Falcon variants are all from 2nd Edition, while the Eldar got a significant redesign in 3rd that makes elements of these (including the crew and underslung shuriken catapults for the vehicles) look thoroughly out of place.

The failure to update the Spears when the jetbikes were redone is bizarre, especially as the Spear Exarch has a bright lance option that hasn't been supported in the Codex for years from what I can gather.

[Aurics Pride]

You will have shuirken weapons, so you'll be getting a bonus. Pistols are still relevant, as you can shoot them while in combat.

I do wish it was re-roll 1s to wound though, that'd be nice to help trigger bladestorm.

My guess for sam-han is ignore -1 to hit for shooting heavy weapons on bikes, and re-roll charges.

Altioc will get the obligatory -1 to hit beyond 12".

Correct for Alaitoc, and Saim Hann is correct although re-roll charges is just for Jetbike units. Assuming my source is correct.