Topic: New Codex: Happy/Sad Face?

[Partninja]

Something i noticed yesterday while perusing our new codex.

We now have drop pods... And by drop pods i mean falcons.  They can apparently deepstrike very reliably.  this should be noteworthy considering each can hold a unit of firedragons... who have battle focus...  now im not sure if they can disembark after a deep strike, but either way thats seems unpleasant.

the other thing that im noticing is the bonus to running from the big formation

this means, you're garunteed to be in range, with guardians, of anything within 24 inches of your initial deployment.  with direavengers you have an effective range of 30 inches.  im sorry, with our aspect host dire avengers you have an effective range of 30 inches...  aside from the killing potential the eldar can be sitting on every objective effectively turn 1.  and on any midfield objective by turn 1 or 2 with a trump unit.

Removed several copyright issues.  Please refer to our Forum Rules for future reference.  --- GML

The problem with the Falcon bomb is you must take three of them. I forget if it was to even be able to deep strike at all, or just not scatter, but three would be required for full benefit. That's a lot of points just for drop pods. 5-6 Dragons in each are going to accomplish what exactly? The Falcons need to be within 4" of each other, so it's not like you're going to be able to spread out enough to melt entire armies with 15-18 melta guns plus whatever you kit the Falcon with. Still very much useless IMO.

[Nythrulas]

Or you can take jetbikes, and do all of that without deepstriking schenanigans. 

[Grizzlykin]

I think the deep striking falcon can fin there way and there ground in game where there is l amphetamine parrot load of point on the table.  somethign like 2000 - 3000 points, they can have a much larger inpact by taking out important infantry or getting juicy shot at some rear armor thanks to the deep strike placing them just where they need to be.

[Partninja]

At 2k+ points, tactics are out the window and list building isn't even important. Every army can fit all of the things they need. Plenty of room for gimmicks there. At 1500-1750, you have to make choices on what you take in your army - Falcon bomb is a poor choice 99.99% of the time.

[Grizzlykin]

well i don't know did not test it out

I just thouhg about something while looking at a battle report now if you take the wratih host, the wratih knight and the wraith lord gain battle focus...  it might be possible to do something with wraithlord now><

[The Reborn]

I agree with Partninja about larger games.....but I think it can still be quite tactical and tough since you have a lot more balls to keep in the air.
The Falcon formation opens up a few interesting ideas to me certainly, but would be a thing for REALLY big games or Apocalypse games.....definitel y not for anything under 2k pts....

I think we've only just begun scratching the surface of synergies within our new codex. Maybe we could sticky a thread where we might compile them for everyone's use?

[Grizzlykin]

Ahah i just thouhgt about something really nasty... and that does not work faclon can't take wraith guard in ><

Humm the synergie... that's for sure we are going to have quite a few of them. Seeing how each of our unit does one job and does it very well i think, there is plenty of things to think about ^^

[magenb]

Something i noticed yesterday while perusing our new codex.

We now have drop pods... And by drop pods i mean falcons.  They can apparently deepstrike very reliably.  this should be noteworthy considering each can hold a unit of firedragons... who have battle focus...  now im not sure if they can disembark after a deep strike, but either way thats seems unpleasant.

the other thing that im noticing is the bonus to running from the big formation

this means, you're garunteed to be in range, with guardians, of anything within 24 inches of your initial deployment.  with direavengers you have an effective range of 30 inches.  im sorry, with our aspect host dire avengers you have an effective range of 30 inches...  aside from the killing potential the eldar can be sitting on every objective effectively turn 1.  and on any midfield objective by turn 1 or 2 with a trump unit.

Removed several copyright issues.  Please refer to our Forum Rules for future reference.  --- GML

The problem with the Falcon bomb is you must take three of them. I forget if it was to even be able to deep strike at all, or just not scatter, but three would be required for full benefit. That's a lot of points just for drop pods. 5-6 Dragons in each are going to accomplish what exactly? The Falcons need to be within 4" of each other, so it's not like you're going to be able to spread out enough to melt entire armies with 15-18 melta guns plus whatever you kit the Falcon with. Still very much useless IMO.

They need to be 4 inches from the first Falcon, so you can place one on either side, roughly a 11 inch spread by the time you add the width of the first falcon, add the FD range and that's a wide field. Given the point investment to fill them with FD, it would be a situational list, so good against a mech heavy list, but bad against a balanced list.

Basically I see the Falcon bomb as an alternative to using FD, given the number of high Str shots it can put out.

You could try FD with two DA's squad or 2 DR Squads. Those would cause some serious chaos in their back line

[haunt]

Yes, good old fashion (F)ragons are back. Playing a 2.5k or more game makes it easy to bring out nasty combos from our side.

[Grizzlykin]

when i think about it, nasty combo have always been an eldar things>< good to see we will be able to have all the fun we want soon

[Cavalier]

Large games of over 2000+ can be very tactical when people have arranged thematic games and custom scenarios, especially as capstones to a series of narrative games. Where they tend to devolve into gimmick-hammer is in pick-up type games, or giant group get-togethers with no overall direction (not that its wrong to just have fun and roll some dice with friends). IMO much of the woes of 40k revolve around the pick-up/tournament scene where fear of being "Out-Listed" perpetuates the arms race towards the most powerful build possible.

If people approached 40k as almost an RPG (bring back the Gamemaster ala Rogue Trader! ) with themed battles, little mini-series of linked games even just on a semi-regular basis I think a lot of the angst would wash away. I tell ya if they had come out with an Eldar campaign ala Shield of Baal I'd be all over it!

I understand half the appeal of 40k is just being able to show-up and play with no production (minus the hobby stuff obviously) but man its so rewarding when you do.

I think a lot of the formations incentivize this kind of play too, especially for long time collectors who have these models sitting around collecting dust. Boy do I wish I had held on to all my extra Falcon turrets because I'd love to run them in an Apoc game.

[Irisado]

I think we've only just begun scratching the surface of synergies within our new codex. Maybe we could sticky a thread where we might compile them for everyone's use?

There is already a topic for this type of thing.  It's just that members of the community need to write the articles to be linked from there .

[Grizzlykin]

Should write article then? I'm feeling like doing something but I totally lack experience in game to be able to do it ^^

[Irisado]

Any member here can write an article (see this topic and this one for further information).  Even if you don't fancy writing an article, there's nothing wrong with starting topics about tactics for specific units or unit combinations.  High quality discussions can be linked to from the PoC topic, as well as articles.

[Grizzlykin]

Hay sir! Thank you for your guidance. Then i shall set myself to write something ^^ there is a unit i want to discuss about, so when i have a good article set up let's get to it. And few idea to talk about i shall start it

[shabbadoo]

Long time player, newly on this forum (mainly for some more Eldar-centric topics).

As to the new codex, there is very little I do not like.  One thing I do not like is Karandras not having the Stalker special rule the Striking Scorpions Exarch has. Every other Phonenix Lord has the special rule of their corresponding Exarch (or a better version of it in one form or another)...except for Karandras. Lame. The only other thing I take issue with, and it is really one of personal preference, is Dark Reapers having any main weapon link to the weapons of Asurmen/Dire Avengers.  Seems hard for them to break from Jes's original concepts (however, they did drop the Web of Skulls), but they really should.  So, no shuriken cannon option for the Dark Reaper Exarch, and the Maugatar should be changed to a bad-arse reaper launcher with the executioner blade on it. That would serve to fully differentiate and unify the Aspect, just as the others are.

D-scythes weapons are bit gross (only because of the multiple auto-hit feature), and I wouldn't be surprised to see them with a -2 penalty on the chart roll next time around. Such 4+ death would still be vicious enough.

Otherwise, The Windriders and Skyrunner Warlock/Farseer kit looks good. I could have done without the Warlock bits on the skyrunner kit, and instead would have liked more Farseer details/bits on the kit.  The main reason for that is because Skyrunner Warlocks could be better served in another way, that being making a Infantry Warlock kit which includes Skyrunner legs/arms, and then you just buy the Windrider kit to finish them off.  Ah, but then it wouldn't cost us $33 per model. And we'd have a Warlock kit with way too many options. The only thing I might also have like to have seen were some tiny decorative bits for the Windriders- perhaps riding jackets/sashes; something simple to break up the armor (and colors) on the models.

The Autarch is a great looking model, but functionally he is at odds with the army he is a part of. Rules-wise, the Autarch is Aspect-ish, but not enough that he can hang with any Apsect in its area of expertise.  The one Aspect he can bolster are Swooping Hawks in that he doesn't screw up their deployment (he being able to have Swooping Hawk wings too), and he can bring some good, ranged, heavy firepower to bolster them.  The new Autarch model is, however, armed for close combat, and so is equipped counter-purpose to what Swooping Hawks are wont to do in combat.  So, that leaves us with two uses for this nice looking model- he drops in with Swooping Hawks and then jets off on his own to wreak havoc, or he joins some other squad on foot and jets off on his own when appropriate to wreak havoc. Either way, he is more of a suicide type character, there not being any unit in the entirety of the Craftworld Eldar Army that suits the tactics indicative to how this model is equipped (Shining Spears come the closest).  Doesn't mean there isn't still fun to be had with him though.  The main things I like about the Autarch model are the Swooping Hawk Wings and the mandiblaster helmet, though not for the rules they provide. What I like about them is that they are a glimpse into what (hopefully) lies ahead for plastic kit releases for Swooping Hawks and Striking Scorpions.

[The Reborn]

I agree with you about the new Autarch.  I used him in a 4000 point battle last week and he didn't do a lot....he didn't seem to really fit-in anywhere.  I admit I took him as a sort of Reserves roll guarantee and he performed that roll ok, but other than this he bombed.  I think he has potential when you add him to a unit, such as warpspiders, hawks or spears, because he most likely won't get singled out and adds clout to whatever it is that unit already does.
I love the figure though, and the plastics are looking cool...bodes well for the future.

[shabbadoo]

I'll probably use the Autarch model to hunt vehicles with the fusion pistol/haywire grenades, but I am also toying with the idea of giving him the Shard of Anaris. With a jump pack move of 18" and a re-roll on charge distance dice due to Fleet, he can get to most places you need him to. He could be very useful to lock up/take out certain enemy ranged units, and the sword allow him the chance to kill the toughest of characters with a single wound (so long as they don't have Eternal Warrior). The Firesabre would work well against an army prone to having many units deployed closely together, it only requiring one wound be dealt for the Wildfire fun to be initiated. As the Autarch is very maneuverable it should be little trouble to stay away from anything with a 2+ save as well.

Also, I am more than bit annoyed that it is has been 8.5 years since the Dire Avengers plastic kit came out, and we have not a single additional Aspect Warrior kit out in plastic in all that time.  Well, we've been wraith'd and jetbike'd now, and about the only thing left is to be Aspect'd (and Warlock'd and Ranger'd). Let's hope that happens with a mini release of some kind in the not too distant future.

[Cavalier]

The Autarch is an army specific type of HQ choice. With the exception of about 3 games, I've run an Autarch only army (no Farseers at all) ever since the 6th ed Codex dropped and I've never been disappointed. If you have reliance on flyers, Hornets, Hawks out of reserves, or WWP bombs the Autarch is invaluable. Especially when burying him in a Wraithguard WWP. When both he and the Archon are equipped for CC they become a majority T6 masher unit. I've had incredible success with this unit in both the shooting phase and CC.

Also an Autarch on a bike with a banshee mask, riding with a bike council, spears, or reavers as an escort unit to your laser bikes is very intriguing and the direction I plan to take with my Autarch. Having played a number of games with the bikes (and another today) they are quite vulnerable to CC especially when you are playing against other armies with bikes or other very fast units. Having a close-combat unit that can keep up and assault nearby units (or better yet intercept ahead of time) is invaluable. The Autarch is the perfect choice for this approach and he's cheap enough that you can still squeeze in a Farseer to ride with the scatter bikes.

He brings a lot versatility, CC punch and stabilizes your reserves. In that regard he's invaluable. Yet if you are playing with everything on the board (or just a single unit in reserves), forgoing CC altogether and just need psychic support the Farseer is as dependable as ever.

[Geometer]

Regarding the Falcon Bomb discussion: i think its a very viable tactic to go for. Tried it yesterday against an imperial guard player.
We made a 1650 match with him bringing three chimera (1meltavet, 2 regular trooos), three Leman Russ (pask with gatling together with a plasma one and a solo cover ignoring one) a vendetta (with flamersquad) and an imperial knight (meltacannon) and one 10man squad footslogging.

I brought a squadron of three falcons (holding 6 fire dragons with exarch, and two times 6 dire avengers from the new avengers formation), 10 foot slogging dire avengers (no points for serpent), 10 Ranger (2x5), 6 dark reaper (2x3) and a casual deathstar consisting of 8 wraithguard with spiritseer and farseer support.

To make it short, he stole initiative and used that to nearly kill my (unbuffed) wraithguard squad ln my left flank. In my second round the falcons arrived, fire dragons killed his imperial knight with ease, the three falcons killed 1/2 from his pask squad (lucky for him because of a position error I had to direct all my nine pulse laser and brightlance shots against his side armor since one falcon was in his side). The two dire avenger squads killed a chimera. So a very effective entrance. I should have given the falcons shuriken cannons for a more deadly alpha strike.

All in all I lost to points, the dark reaper had to fight with bad line of sight, the 500points in my "casual deathstar" didnt attend in the battle at all due to missing shrouded and the farseer misses his test for eldritch storm before dying. But I nesrly tabled him in the end with him having only 1 chimera and 1 leman russ left on the table.