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Author Topic: Support Weapon Batteries  (Read 1776 times)

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Offline mikey

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Support Weapon Batteries
« on: January 7, 2009, 08:49:00 AM »
So im thinking of getting a couple of D-Cannon weapon batteries to add to my army because i think there cool.

However from a quick read of the codex it seems like a support weapon is only really 2 crew that practicaly anything can kill with easy. Im wondering what other peoples experience with these have been, am i just throwing 100 points in the toilet along with a kp or are these things actualy worthwhile?

Thanks;
Mike
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Offline BubbaMack

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Re: Support Weapon Batteries
« Reply #1 on: January 7, 2009, 09:03:26 AM »
I have used D-cannons to varying success.  You never leave them by themselves so most games mine never even got shot at, since there were other more valuable targets around.  Always run them with a Warlock and use his BS to fire the weapon.  You can also use them to support Wraithlords with the warlock as a Spiritseer. 

Do a little searching and you can find loads of threads discussing how to effectively use platforms.
...but I could be wrong.

Offline 40kfomPodmaster

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Re: Support Weapon Batteries
« Reply #2 on: January 7, 2009, 09:06:39 AM »
Well, in my experience, Vibro Cannons seem to be the more popular choice in terms of support weapon batteries. I myself use D-Cannons though, simply because when pointed in the right direction and they hit home, they cause some serious whoop-ass! This is entirely personal choice of course, and I should note the caveat that my regular opponent does not have a very mobile army (bar one or two units tops) compared to some.
 
Not sure I'd bring 'em out the bag for a take all comers / pick up game scenario.
« Last Edit: January 7, 2009, 09:07:42 AM by Relentless »

Offline Zemanova

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Re: Support Weapon Batteries
« Reply #3 on: January 7, 2009, 09:11:38 AM »
D-Cannons are potent but limited by their relativly short range and sub par BS.

If the enemy is coming to you its maybe worth a crack if u have 50 point sto kill but there are generally other better options in our Codex

Vibro's used to be the weapon of choice but getting the arrival of 5th Ed and -3 to any rolls on the vehicle damage chart pretty much killed them off in most lists.
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Offline spiderbite

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Re: Support Weapon Batteries
« Reply #4 on: January 7, 2009, 09:12:44 AM »
Vibro-cannons are great because they can sit behind cover and still fire, and they can also damage those pesky AV14 vehicles as well with up to 3 d6 rolls. The range of the VC is also slightly better than the d-cannon and can damage multiple units (including your own), so be careful when you fire it. Placing a Warlock with them does nothing to their BS as he wouldn't be part of the gun crew, so I'm afraid you're stuck with the guardian BS. The Warlock is really there for a cover save if you haven't already placed the VC behind cover.

Do a search for vibro-cannons and I'm sure you'll find some valuable information and tactics.
« Last Edit: January 7, 2009, 09:14:10 AM by black widow »

Offline BubbaMack

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Re: Support Weapon Batteries
« Reply #5 on: January 7, 2009, 10:11:30 AM »
Placing a Warlock with them does nothing to their BS as he wouldn't be part of the gun crew, so I'm afraid you're stuck with the guardian BS. The Warlock is really there for a cover save if you haven't already placed the VC behind cover.

I'm pretty sure your off on this.  I don't have mine with me right now, but I'm sure the codex allows you to upgrade your crew with the addition of a Warlock and allows for any crew member to fire the gun, including the Warlock, provided he doesn't shoot anything else that turn.  It has been covered here before, but I can't find the link. I am sure someone will.
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It's a cheap way to upgrade the BS and make the gun that much more effective, as well as adding an extra wound/power to the squad.  Give him a spear if you can for that added Anti-tank punch also.
« Last Edit: January 7, 2009, 10:32:21 AM by BubbaMack »
...but I could be wrong.

Offline Zemanova

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Re: Support Weapon Batteries
« Reply #6 on: January 7, 2009, 11:15:12 AM »
Placing a Warlock with them does nothing to their BS as he wouldn't be part of the gun crew, so I'm afraid you're stuck with the guardian BS. The Warlock is really there for a cover save if you haven't already placed the VC behind cover.

I'm pretty sure your off on this.  I don't have mine with me right now, but I'm sure the codex allows you to upgrade your crew with the addition of a Warlock and allows for any crew member to fire the gun, including the Warlock, provided he doesn't shoot anything else that turn.  It has been covered here before, but I can't find the link. I am sure someone will.
Look Here

It's a cheap way to upgrade the BS and make the gun that much more effective, as well as adding an extra wound/power to the squad.  Give him a spear if you can for that added Anti-tank punch also.

Yeah I believe bubba Mack is correct - a warlock can shoot teh gun which is really the only reason worth paying the points for him
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Offline Irisado

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Re: Support Weapon Batteries
« Reply #7 on: January 7, 2009, 01:05:58 PM »
A Warlock can be used to fire the weapon by acting as a crew member, this has been discussed before.

My personal experience of support weapons is confined to D Cannons, as they are the only ones I have ever used.  They are great for area denial, so if you are playing a defensive game, using a castle tactic, or, even better, you a playing scenario whereby you are defending an objective or building, they are okay.

The problem is that they are so vulnerable to outflanking units, units which can Deep Strike, Fast Skimmers (e.g. Landspeeders, and infiltrators.  As you can see that's quite a lengthy list of units which can take them out relatively easily.

This weakness is also true of the other support weapons.

As a result, I wouldn't suggest that you take them unless you are playing more of a gun line or static castle Eldar force, or you are taking a large fire base, since they will be too easily isolated and destroyed.
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Offline spiderbite

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Re: Support Weapon Batteries
« Reply #8 on: January 7, 2009, 02:59:43 PM »
Placing a Warlock with them does nothing to their BS as he wouldn't be part of the gun crew, so I'm afraid you're stuck with the guardian BS. The Warlock is really there for a cover save if you haven't already placed the VC behind cover.

I'm pretty sure your off on this.  I don't have mine with me right now, but I'm sure the codex allows you to upgrade your crew with the addition of a Warlock and allows for any crew member to fire the gun, including the Warlock, provided he doesn't shoot anything else that turn. 

Thank you, I stand corrected.

Offline 40kfomPodmaster

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Re: Support Weapon Batteries
« Reply #9 on: January 8, 2009, 09:46:43 AM »
Reading this thread has inspired me to dust down my D-Cannon battery for a game last night. First time I've used Hvy Support batteries for some time, but like an earlier reply to this thread, they're the only ones I've used. In the latest incarnation of my Eldar army, they're also the only ones I have!
 
Added a warlock, and (shamefully, for the first time in ages) won handsomely! Not sure the D-cannons were the major factor in this, but they certainly caused some damage!

Offline Adrastos

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Re: Support Weapon Batteries
« Reply #10 on: January 8, 2009, 11:15:09 AM »
I used D-cannons and Shadow Weavers in an all out footing Guardian only list (with Seers of course).

I ended up playing against Black Templars. With good use of cover, and his having no blast weapons, I thoroughly trounced him by withering down his squads as they ran towards me across the board. The Weavers took the biggest toll, for 90 points without a warlock (as i they fire indirectly most of the time) they really did a lot of damage. I was getting 5-10 wounds and 2-3 kills per turn with each weaver battery. This is comparable to a guardian defender squad firing all weapons (plus scatter laser) into a marine squad.

The D-cannon was my scary item and died quickly without doing much.
After I had lost the guns for this squad, having it become a 'normal' guardian squad proved very useful.

The weavers are not our greatest choice but they certainly can add something to a list if you need some indirect fire support, and they do it very cheaply. I think good thoughts about the vibro, and the D-Cannons can be quite nasty. But I feel for 150 puts you're putting to much in to a non-movable 24" gun.
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Offline haunt

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Re: Support Weapon Batteries
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2009, 12:28:56 AM »
I think Shadow Weavers are better point value than a 5 man squad of Warp Spiders, same weapons damage type except the weavers don't have to be that close to the enemy.
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Offline Irisado

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Re: Support Weapon Batteries
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2009, 04:23:21 PM »
I think Shadow Weavers are better point value than a 5 man squad of Warp Spiders, same weapons damage type except the weavers don't have to be that close to the enemy.

Simplifying things in this way is dangerous in my opinion.

The question of whether a small squad of Warp Spiders or a unit of Shadow Weavers is better is not, in my view, determined by their value in terms of points, but rather by their value in the list in question.  If, for example, a player takes a more gun line type Eldar list with a strong fire base, or wants to deploy in a castle formation, then Shadow Weavers will most likely be a good choice (depending on the opposing army), since their lack of mobility won't be an issue, and there will be plenty of other Eldar units around to protect them from Deep Strikes, outflaking enemy units, and so on.  In a mechanised list, a hammer and anvil list without a large fire base, and in more aggressive lists, however, Warp Spiders will be the better choice, since you need a unit which can advance with your forces, not a static artillery battery stuck on its own at the back of the table.

The decision as to which unit is better, therefore, comes down to much more than just comparing points values.
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Offline DutchyLion

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Re: Support Weapon Batteries
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2009, 05:24:20 AM »
Although the batteries can move with along wiht an advancing force aswell, since they have anti-grav technology they can move AND shoot.

D
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Offline nesbitt_bub1

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Re: Support Weapon Batteries
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2009, 06:01:38 AM »
unfortunately the batteries make no use of the anti grav tech they use. They class as artillery and follow the rules to the letter. So they cannot move and shoot.

Offline Irisado

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Re: Support Weapon Batteries
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2009, 06:04:54 AM »
Yes, they count as artillery, so moving and firing is not an option, which is why they are so unsuited to a lot of Eldar armies in my opinion.  You need to think very carefully about your army composition and strategy if you plan on taking Support Weapons.
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Offline DutchyLion

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Re: Support Weapon Batteries
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2009, 06:14:35 AM »
o damn.....i really need to take a look in my codex again, im sayin stuff thats BS :P
Then in agree on taking waprspiders with an advancing army :)

D
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Offline Draza

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Re: Support Weapon Batteries
« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2009, 06:27:53 PM »
After playing a doubles game against 2 IG, I'm almost certain to include 3 shadow weavers next time I use Eldar. The weavers are definetly my favourite battery.

*There placement doesn't crippled where I put my guys [vibrocannon]
*Gets more shots off in the game [compared to D-cannons]
*Stupidly cheap

Forces armies to be honest with terrain usage. With only a single blast weapon in my army, opponents tend to clump up in terrain. Even just forcing the enemy to spread out and get out of terrain pieces is worth the points paid for the weavers in the first place

As for the Warlock, he has two other use's. He has embolden (squad should be in or behind cover) to make sure any shots that hit them dont cause them to run. He also acts as a psychic link to your EML/BL or SC Wraithlords, who can sit back and shoot, as well as protect the squad from outflankers (as well as possibly getting a cover save from the terrain as well)

Offline DutchyLion

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Re: Support Weapon Batteries
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2009, 02:56:03 AM »
And with some striking scorpions(or howling bashees, theres another topic for that discussion :P) I think u can slice straight thru ur oppponent and jump from squad to squad cause theyre so packed up.
Pretty solid strategy methinks

D
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Offline Draza

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Re: Support Weapon Batteries
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2009, 04:36:00 AM »
Problem is you cannot consolidate into enemies now. Scorpions destroy one squad and get left sitting ducks. Blast and template weapons are really the only deterrents

 


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