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Offline chaos0xomega

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Israel Goes To Hell in a hand basket
« on: July 14, 2006, 09:24:22 PM »
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060714/ap_on_re_mi_ea/mideast_warship_drone_1

Read it, seems like our Israeli friends(or enemies depending on your pov), is going ot hell, and the situation is escalating out of control.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2006, 12:04:25 AM by Devern, The Unsung Hero »
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Offline Devern, The Unsung Hero

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Re: Israel Goes To Hell....
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2006, 10:10:36 PM »
How exactly are they going to hell?
So they damaged one ship.  Israel has a HUGE advantage in terms of technology over their enemies.  Coupled with the, "do or die" attitude, and this means one damaged ship doesn'ty mean anything.


But yes, this is getting a little out of hand.  Welcome to war.
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Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: Israel Goes To Hell....
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2006, 10:12:51 PM »
Using UAVs in such a fashion is nothing out of the ordinary and nothing really unexpected. We have done so before so why should we be surprised when others do so?

Also clearly shows that the IN weren't expecting an air attack and got fat and lazy. Unless this UAV is supersonic?  ;)
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Offline Iron-Hand Ace

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Re: Israel Goes To Hell....
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2006, 10:16:25 PM »
They probably weren't expecting an attack.  The Aegis missle boat of the US is more than capable of defending itself against UAV attacks, and the Vulcan Phalanx system mounted on many ships is simmilarly effective.  I can't back this up with quotes or articles, but I'm reasonably sure the Israeli military is as well equiped as the US, no?

What I'd be more worried about is the backlash.  One of the things I love about Israel is that they don't take this kind of crap lying down.  However, now is not the time or the place for such a reaction, but I give Israel enough credit to know that.  So long as they keep a fairly level head, nothing too nasty should come of this.
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Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: Israel Goes To Hell....
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2006, 10:19:24 PM »
What I'd be more worried about is the backlash.  One of the things I love about Israel is that they don't take this kind of crap lying down.  However, now is not the time or the place for such a reaction, but I give Israel enough credit to know that.  So long as they keep a fairly level head, nothing too nasty should come of this.

Ah, have you been following current events? This is merely another performance in a concert of attacks, not the opening salvo. Being the carnage Israel is currently throwing at Lebanon they've been lucky so far that this is the worst event they've suffered.
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Offline Devern, The Unsung Hero

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Re: Israel Goes To Hell....
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2006, 10:28:26 PM »
Well, the Israeli army is equipped by the American military, so it's safe to assume they have the Aegis and Phalanx systems.  I mean, if they have f-14's...I'm sure they have other things. 
Of course, these drones are few and far between, and if it ever becomes a real air war, which it can't really, Israel will wipe the floor with them.  It has one of the best trained airforces in the world, iirc.
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Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: Israel Goes To Hell....
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2006, 10:34:16 PM »
Well, the Israeli army is equipped by the American military, so it's safe to assume they have the Aegis and Phalanx systems.  I mean, if they have f-14's...I'm sure they have other things. 

I doubt they have Aegis mainly due to their lack of need for such a tool. Phalanx is a last resort weapon and not common to small warships (the target hit here sounds like a patrol boat as otherwise it wouldn't have been that close to the coast). Israel is well equipped with F-16s. F-14s are mostly navy (even though Iran still operates some of theirs) and Israel currently lacks aircraft carriers.

Of course, these drones are few and far between, and if it ever becomes a real air war, which it can't really, Israel will wipe the floor with them.  It has one of the best trained airforces in the world, iirc.

Why is Israel seen as the victim here? I'm curious as to what people have been reading/watching the past month or so.
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Offline Devern, The Unsung Hero

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Re: Israel Goes To Hell....
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2006, 10:39:28 PM »
Oh I'm not seeing them as the victim.  I'm just pointing out the fact that, that's what will happen.

Hell, they started it.  Took leave no man behind a little to the extreme, if you ask me. 
As Jon Stewart said, "I open up my computer and read that world war 3 is starting...aaaaahhh hhhhh"
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Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: Israel Goes To Hell....
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2006, 10:42:16 PM »
Not WW III as of yet as long as Syria is left alone which avoids Iran who is tied to Russia and China who are well equipped with..... you get the idea.  :)
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Offline Devern, The Unsung Hero

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Re: Israel Goes To Hell....
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2006, 10:48:23 PM »
Sounds to me like this captured soldier is alot like that Arch Duke.

Except, the latter got killed by a Serbian. 
But my point still stands, it's entangled alliances baby!
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Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: Israel Goes To Hell....
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2006, 10:52:00 PM »
Sounds to me like this captured soldier is alot like that Arch Duke.

Do you know what happened just before the soldier was captured? A Palestinian family on a beach were shelled for the crime of just being there. It was an "accident." There are no isolated incidents. Merely a continuing stream.  :-\
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Offline Captain Hajime

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Re: Israel Goes To Hell....
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2006, 10:53:22 PM »
Nuke it! turn it into Glass! Evacuate it first and make it all glass!
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Offline Devern, The Unsung Hero

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Re: Israel Goes To Hell....
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2006, 11:00:13 PM »
Keep it constructive Hajime. 
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Offline Captain Hajime

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Re: Israel Goes To Hell....
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2006, 11:05:01 PM »
Keep it constructive Hajime. 

I am being Constructive, they can't and won't get along! They really can't be permited to kill each other and the actions of Israel in Lebaon are acts of War and should be stopped.
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Offline chaos0xomega

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Re: Israel Goes To Hell....
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2006, 11:22:01 PM »
When I said Israel goes to hell, I didn't mean they were going to hell, I just meant that the situation in and around Israel and that section of the Mid-East has "gone to hell". Its a figure of speech, get it?

Kinda like the amphetamine parrot hit the fan
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Offline Ollieb

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Re: Israel Goes To Hell....
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2006, 11:33:22 PM »
Do you know what happened just before the soldier was captured? A Palestinian family on a beach were shelled for the crime of just being there. It was an "accident." There are no isolated incidents. Merely a continuing stream.  :-\

So in essence what you are saying is that it is acceptable for country "C", Lebanon through Hezbollah since they do have representation in the government, to retaliate against country "B", Israel, for something that allegedly happened to country "A", Palestine?  If we go by your logic here, it would be perfectly acceptable for France to kidnap a Brit and hold him until the UK agrees to release all IRA members they currently hold.  Or Germany to bomb Spain for killing anyone associated with the ETA. 

While I've never been a big fan of Israeli tactics, if I were in the shoes of their government and a group from a neighboring country kidnapped one of my soldiers, anyone that associates himself with that group had better do two things.  Run far and fast, for he just painted a target on his back. 

One thing I've never understood about these idiots.  If my next door neighbor has kicked my ass anytime I tried to start a fight with him, the last thing I'd do is kidnap one of his kids and then let him know about it.
 
« Last Edit: July 14, 2006, 11:37:25 PM by ollieb »
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Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: Israel Goes To Hell....
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2006, 12:02:46 AM »
So in essence what you are saying is that it is acceptable for country "C", Lebanon through Hezbollah since they do have representation in the government, to retaliate against country "B", Israel, for something that allegedly happened to country "A", Palestine?  If we go by your logic here, it would be perfectly acceptable for France to kidnap a Brit and hold him until the UK agrees to release all IRA members they currently hold.  Or Germany to bomb Spain for killing anyone associated with the ETA. 

I was taking about the more recent Gaza incursion, which was in response to the soldier capture, which was in response to the shelling on the beach (perhaps), which was in response to.....   

Still, since we're talking about Hezbollah, you do realise they didn't claim the rocket attacks that Israel now claims as the reason for them trying to destroy as much civilian infrastructure as possible in Lebanon? Someone fired rockets which did jack amphetamine parrot (as always) and now it's on!

One thing I've never understood about these idiots.  If my next door neighbor has kicked my ass anytime I tried to start a fight with him, the last thing I'd do is kidnap one of his kids and then let him know about it.

What would you do if your next door neighbour shot one of your kids who had been playing on a beach? Roll over and show your belly?
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Re: Israel Goes To Hell....
« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2006, 08:53:50 AM »
Do you know what happened just before the soldier was captured? A Palestinian family on a beach were shelled for the crime of just being there. It was an "accident." There are no isolated incidents. Merely a continuing stream.  :-\

So in essence what you are saying is that it is acceptable for country "C", Lebanon through Hezbollah since they do have representation in the government, to retaliate against country "B", Israel, for something that allegedly happened to country "A", Palestine?  If we go by your logic here, it would be perfectly acceptable for France to kidnap a Brit and hold him until the UK agrees to release all IRA members they currently hold.  Or Germany to bomb Spain for killing anyone associated with the ETA. 

While I've never been a big fan of Israeli tactics, if I were in the shoes of their government and a group from a neighboring country kidnapped one of my soldiers, anyone that associates himself with that group had better do two things.  Run far and fast, for he just painted a target on his back. 

One thing I've never understood about these idiots.  If my next door neighbor has kicked my ass anytime I tried to start a fight with him, the last thing I'd do is kidnap one of his kids and then let him know about it.
 

Apart from Israeli threats to them... Hezbollah's involvement is kind of "unknown" we don't know who started it. Was it the bombing of lebanese targets that had Hezbollah forces fight back?

As for Palestine, Israel killed loads of innocents. Everytime it killed a militant leader atleast 10 to 15 innocent people were killed and wounded. Holding the soldier hostage was'nt the Palestinian military. And should we forget what happened about 3 months ago? A Palestinian criminal in a palestinian jail was arrested and forcibly extradited under tank fire and shelling killing prisoners and a security gaurd. Palestinian government asked for american help and the americans just stood by and did nothing. Infacth that anywhere else is a declaration of war. Palestine is a soverign democracy. And fair and square hamaas is in power. And what they did is the same thing as the Israelis. Except how many Israelis are in jail for terrorism. If you look at it for revenge most of them just want the women and children held in Israeli Jails released. Its not asking for the men. Its asking for children and women.

The hundreds of rockets are about as dangerous as a bottle rocket. There is no guidance system and infact the only death was from a hezbollah rocket which is more advanced and using professional warheads. Three death from all those attacks. Unlike the attacks on Palestine...

Palestine cannot protect itself. Its not strong enough and its fragmentted. The people who promised to protect it are'nt doing their job (It is technically a UN protectorate. USA and British observers were placed to ensure Israel does'nt break mandate... Blind eye to the transgressions.) So who will protect the palestinians? The west won't so their neighbours must. For example if switzerland is being attacked.

The situation is'nt as you described. Technically Israel is the palestinian land. Palestinians were forced off it by the west to allow jews in. The palestinians attacked for their land back. Israel had more mordern weapons and won. Palestine was constantly ghettoised until its current state. Thus creating a special kind of irony. That the people who knew the stigma of ghettos have gone and done the same thing to someone else. Instead of pogroms the Israelis now use air to surface missiles. So in this case the neighbours who are the same people as Palestinians share sympathy. Just as Jews across the world shared sympathy for the germans. So they responded as the people who had promised to protect palestine came up trumps. Palestinian terrorism is the resort of someone who does'nt have the money to afford arms. Its the only way they can defend themselves. Do you want them to go back to their tit for tat attacks on civilians? Atleast their suicide bombing has ground to a halt playing by the book.

The IRA and Palestine are in different leagues of greiviance. For start NI does'nt exist at the hands of people who control whether they live or die. The english people don't go there and force irish people out of their houses to live in them. The comparison is bunk. Palestinains at this point have no power, no water, no food and no medicine. Northern Ireland... Is paradise compared to their living conditions.


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Re: Israel Goes To Hell in a hand basket
« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2006, 09:00:15 AM »
Israel takes a shotgun.  Israel shoots it at Lebanon.  Israel has it's foot infront of the barrel at the same time.

They're starting World War 3, all they need is for alliances to get interested and this WILL blow up.  Heaven forbid this turn into a West versus East issue.

Hezbollah are not representatives of Lebanon, and as far as I know are not condoned by Lebanon.  They're a separate group.  This is like someone from France kidnapping a Brit, and then the UK sending missiles at the entireity of France despite most French having nothing to do with it.  It's a despicable action.

Frankly, I wouldn't complain if the UK went in to put Israel in their place.  And I'm generally not one for using the military unless it's asked for, but if so many people found Iraq acceptable we'd better bloody well sort out Israel.
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Offline Mud Man!

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Re: Israel Goes To Hell in a hand basket
« Reply #19 on: July 15, 2006, 12:45:52 PM »
God forbid this turns into a West vs. East war?

There has been a West vs. East war going on for a good fifteen centuries now. Didn't get the memo?
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