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Offline Mellchia

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Iyanden Army 1.5k
« on: April 4, 2008, 03:47:03 PM »
I've posted this list a few times, each time with several revisions. Hopefully this will be the last for a while.

Here was the last revision, probably about a month or two ago...

Quote
HQ
Farseer - Fortune, Runes of Warding
ELITE
Harlequins (7) - Shadow Seer, Deathjester, Kisses (6)
TROOP
Wraithguard (10) - Spiritseer (Conceal)
Defenders (16) - SL, Warlock (Conceal)
Defenders (12) - SL
Defenders (12) - SL
Jetbike (3) - Sh.Cannon, Warlock (Singing Spear, Embolden)
FAST
Vyper - Sh.Cannon, Underslung Cannon
Vyper - Sh.Cannon, Underslung Cannon
HEAVY
Wraithlord - BL/SC, Flamers

With the recent revisions...

Dancers of the Dead
HQ
Farseer - Fortune, Mind War, Spirit Stones, Runes of Warding

ELITE
Fire Dragons (5) - Exarch, Dragon's Breath, Crack Shot
--Wave Serpent - TL Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones, VE
Harlequins (7) - Shadow Seer, Deathjester, Kisses (6)

TROOP
Wraithguard (10) - Spiritseer, Conceal
Guardian Defenders (10) - SL
Storm Guardians (10) - Flamers (2)
Jetbikes (3) - Sh.Cannon, Warlock w/ Singing Spear & Embolden

FAST
Vyper - Shuriken Cannon, Underslung Cannon

HEAVY
Wraithlord - BL/EML, Flamers

Before people start screaming about why there isn't more Wraithguard, a bit of background:
Iyanden is most famous for its use of the army of the dead, the Wraithguard and Wraithlord. While the bulk of the dead are used on important missions, in cases of emergency Iyanden will field its militia forces, the Guardians onto the battlefield. The Dancers of the Dead are one such militia Warhost. The overwhelming number of Guardians are used when other resources cannot be diverted from the field of battle but yet the Seers have seen a need for Iyanden to intervene.
The Warhost is lead by a Farseer, usually one who had insight as to why the Warhost. Wraithguard and Wraithlord accompany the Farseer as the Farseer directs the Guardians where to strike. Reserve Aspect Warriors also accompany, serving as elite special force unit striking at critical targets that the Farseer determines the Guardian's lives should not be wasted upon.
The Warhost is neither swift nor hesitant. Only the Farseer knows the tempo of the dance and calls the steps accordingly.

My Farseer now runs Fortune & Mind War. Fortune to help the Wraithguard plod up the battlefield. Mind War helps pick off pesky units, like a lone powerfist sitting in a unit that could potentially backlog my Wraithguard in Assault. Runes of Warding are used to cripple psyker potential.

Harlies are counter-assault measure. Because I'm not fleeting them every turn, the Death Jester is a good investment (I forget who recommended it to me, but thank you! Works like a charm).

Fire Dragons - A bit redundant in this list, but Gwaihir mentioned on a topic about supporting WG that made a lot of sense to me. Essentially terminator stoppers, the Fire Dragon's role is to cull some termies or go after a MUST hit armor, hence the mobility factor. Equipping the Dragon's Breath gives Fire Dragons a little more versatility that has been discussed and a measure of Horde control, which unfortunately Wraithguard are unsuitable for.

Wraithguard - I don't think an Iyanden list is complete without a single troop choice of Wraithguard. Fortuned, concealed up the field. The Warlock adds a better CC, so no spear. I tend to march them up the center, dividing my opponent into to forces as the faster units harry one flank (jetbikes, vypers, and now fire dragons/wave serpent & guardians), while the Wraithguard, Storm Guardians, Harlies, and Wraithlord engage another.

Guardian Defenders - VP denial. No Warlock since they'll be sitting in cover. Seeing how the Fire Dragons and Wraithguard are armor control, equipping the SL is a better choice to give me infantry control.

Storm Guardians - Combat units used to help control the side the Wraithguard are engaging and to tie up enemy units. Their job is NOT to engage assault specialists, but rather to engage units that were not meant for assault. Flamers are equipped for close support for the Wraithguard against infantry/horde.

Jetbikes - Small unit, used to claim VP's and light vehicle hunting (notably other skimmers). Warlock equipped with Singing Spear for additional armor hunting and Embolden in case the unit does take a casualty I don't run off the board. Excellent sniping as well.

Vyper - Same purpose as the Jetbike. Sniping units.

Wraithlord -  BL/EML combo, making use of the higher BS than the Guardians. Plods with the Wraithguard. Flamers to control infantry/hordes. Other combo's include SL/EML or Wraithsword/EML, although at the moment, I feel that if my Wraithguard and Fire Dragons are engaged and I have a hard target that needs to be disposed of, I cannot trust my Guardians and Vyper & Jetbikes to take out the unit (based on luck). Plus it forces my opponent to make a decision on who to take on first, the Wraithguard or Wraithlord.

I'm entering in a tourney with the list but I don't see any major revisions besides the Wraithlord. Let me know what you guys think/see as potential problems!

Offline Gwaihir

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Re: Iyanden Army 1.5k
« Reply #1 on: April 4, 2008, 04:47:51 PM »
There is nothing wrong with one squad of wraithguard for an Iyanden force, particularly at point levels around 1500 or below.  Even at 1750 it is difficult to get two full squads and have balanced support.  You have a squad of guard and a lord, that is enough.

I'm not a fan of embolden on the bike squad, but if you are just using a few extra points, I guess it makes sense.  If you could find a way to get destructor, I think it would be more useful.

If the dragons are going to specialize in the really nasty armor, the lord doesn't need the lance.  If you give him a scatter laser instead, you save enough points to get another dragon.  I think that will be a more broadly useful setup.


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Offline Gutstikk

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Re: Iyanden Army 1.5k
« Reply #2 on: April 4, 2008, 08:55:37 PM »
Your list has been selected by POC EO's scout, Azore24, for inclusion in the Big List of Eldar Lists project! You will be receiving a score from me using the 5/5 system as outlined in the Big List of Eldar Lists in the stickies on this board. Following is the critique I have given:

Background: .5
You have done a solid job of explaining the background reasons for your force selection as well as the gaming reasons, and even included a bit of info on what a previous version looked like to illustrate how it has evolved. You have plans on where it will be fielded it is for tournament use. This being the case, some info about the tournament in general would be useful to have. You have not included the total cost of each unit, nor the total cost of the army assuming you didn't spend every points. This information is always nice to have in the event of minor alterations and wargear swaps being possible, or a little room to add a final upgrade to a single unit.

Composition: 1
Even with the massive amount of points invested in your Troops section you have managed to include at least one unit from each area of the Force Organization chart, drawing on the different strengths and weaknesses that each of these selection types bring to a list. You have quite a bit of AT potential in your army, and most of it can effectively be put towards heavy infantry as well. You've included two pretty solid combat units to help hold your lines, and have some speed to boost your ability to contest an objective. All in all, this is a very well-rounded list.

Utility: 1
I think this is a good illustration of minimum upgrades suited to the task at hand. The Wraithguard have the standard endurance package which depends on every upgrade they've been given in order to function. The Defenders and Storm Guardians have only the weapon upgrades which merited their inclusion. The Jetbikes have been given tools to battle vehicles with and nothing further, except for a cheap power that will keep them in the game longer and also help vs tank shock. The vyper and wraithlord follow a similar plan. The only real areas of contention are the odd-numbered squads of Dragons and Harlies, lowering their strength for the purposes of scoring, and given points, probably the one change to be made.

Flexibility: 1
Most of your units are capable of handling a variety of roles outside of their specialty. The storm guardians are the one unit that'll have to face off against their primary target due to the inability to harm some of the more powerful enemies they may face, especially vehicles. Each of your squads is a different unit type, so you are not repeating a single weakpoint throughout your list. Avengers may have been a better investment than Storm Guardians given the target you wish to use them on and the lack of a transport effectively making them easy pickings, but the Storm Guard do lend a little weight of attack to your other units if combat is unavoidable.

Ingenuity: .5
A good discussion of how you will use your units and how they will work together, with some explanation as to why these units were selected for these jobs over other options. Some explanation of your perceived vulnerabilities and how you aim to overcome them would be a useful addition to this section, keeping you from missing an exploit available to your opponent.

Total Score: 4, for an excellent list.
Other players could probably pick up your list and, using your explanations, have a good chance of performing well.
« Last Edit: April 7, 2008, 01:02:18 PM by Gutstikk »

Offline Chaplain Swordwind

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Re: Iyanden Army 1.5k
« Reply #3 on: April 5, 2008, 01:44:39 PM »
reserved for addition to the big lists, thanks to Azore24.

What he said.   ;)
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Offline moc065

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Re: Iyanden Army 1.5k
« Reply #4 on: April 7, 2008, 06:55:52 AM »
Dancers of the Dead
HQ
Farseer - Fortune, Mind War, Spirit Stones, Runes of Warding

ELITE
Fire Dragons (5) - Exarch, Dragon's Breath, Crack Shot
--Wave Serpent - TL Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones, VE
Harlequins (7) - Shadow Seer, Deathjester, Kisses (6)

TROOP
Wraithguard (10) - Spiritseer, Conceal
Guardian Defenders (10) - SL
Storm Guardians (10) - Flamers (2)
Jetbikes (3) - Sh.Cannon, Warlock w/ Singing Spear & Embolden

FAST
Vyper - Shuriken Cannon, Underslung Cannon

HEAVY
Wraithlord - BL/EML, Flamers

moc-score

1.. Anti-tank potential: Plenty of Anti-tank and/or support on side/rear armour although it could be geared a little better in certain insatnces, Good (.8 )
2.. Anti-MEQ potential: Lots of shooting; but a lot of the good Ap stuff is very short ranged, so this is actually limited so its only about, Average (.6)
3.. Anti-Horde potential: Again, some stuff to deal with Hordes; but he new Orks could be bad with their Speed and Numbers, so overall its about, Average (.6)
4.. Ranged Firepower potential: Some stuff is good; but simply things like the Vyper could be better, thus its just, Average (.6)
5.. Assault potential: Now it can certainly take an assault, and it has holding units, as wella s supporting units but it has no actual assault units, so its just, Average (.6)
6.. Scoring Units / point level: 8 units at 1500pts is, Above Average (.7)
7.. Durability or Resilience: WG, WL, Invul saves, MEQ units, overall I think it has pretty decent potential here, Good (.8 )
8.. Flexibility: Certain armies will deal with it very easily; but overall its, Good (.8 )
9.. Mission Capability: I see a good mix for it to do well in most scenerios. An autarch would help for Escalation; but there is not that much that is not goind to start onthe table anyway, so overall its, Good (.8 )
10. Dynamics and/or Theme: I am not really sure what the theme is, I do see some good dynamics and synergy goin on; but they get broken from time to time, overall I would still say its, Average (.6 ) Certain things like the 3 Jetbikes look like they were thrown in last minute, where a Concealing Warlock for the Guardians (and more of them), would possible have a better overal effect.
 
Rating = 6.9 Others may score it differently; but I see this as a good "Fun" list that has some variety and it should do well overall. I don't see it as a good campaign, competition or tournament list though as it has some large holes in it that could be exploited by smart opponents.

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« Last Edit: April 7, 2008, 02:45:55 PM by moc065 »
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Offline f.desrochers

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Re: Iyanden Army 1.5k
« Reply #5 on: April 7, 2008, 09:29:11 AM »
Hey there,

Well, off to the review:

Quote
My Farseer now runs Fortune & Mind War.

Although not a fan of Mindwar on a footslogging Farseer, I understand the logic and can't fault you for it.  I've seen it work wonders, I've seen teh Farseer get bogged in CC and never use it. <shrug>  Good, cheap, stable support HQ.

Quote
Harlies are counter-assault measure. Because I'm not fleeting them every turn, the Death Jester is a good investment (I forget who recommended it to me, but thank you! Works like a charm).

One of the key CC support units for Iyanden, you've added the Death Jester for good measure. No harm except that it's an odd-numbered unit.  Personally, I'd drop them down to 6 models - reason later.

Quote
Fire Dragons - A bit redundant in this list....

Although I'm not a propoent of Fire Dragons in an Iyanden army, you've included them to cover more than one base, which I think is going to be the key to their success for you.  Good unit, well-rounded and no excess.

Quote
Wraithguard - I don't think an Iyanden list is complete without a single troop choice of Wraithguard.

Although an arguable statement, it certainly is convention to include at least one unit of WG.  Fortuned and Concealed, they are a monster to deal with.  As you said, "hey diddle-diddle, straight up the middle," and create a 12" bubble no vehicle will likely dare enter.  Personally I give them Enhance and park them in hard cover for the 4+ Cover save, but that's a me.....

Quote
Guardian Defenders - VP denial

Very much so and great, cheap units.

Quote
Storm Guardians - Combat units used to help control the side the Wraithguard are engaging and to tie up enemy units.

I'm puzzled why you wouldn't include an Enhance-lock.  Dropping the 7th Harlie would almost give you the option to round these guys out. <shrug>

Quote
Jetbikes - Small unit, used to claim VP's and light vehicle hunting

Since they are pretty much toat in CC, the spear is a great addition to the near ubiquitous JBG squads.

Quote
Vyper - Same purpose as the Jetbike. Sniping units.

Nothing wrong here.  Only difference with mine is the lack of Spirit Stones to still let them run and hide once Shaken.

Quote
Wraithlord -  BL/EML combo, making use of the higher BS than the Guardians.

Nothing wrong here.  Tank-hunting 'Lords are pretty self-explanatory.

All-in-all, a solid list that should do well, given the terrain and dice-gods.

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Offline Mellchia

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Re: Iyanden Army 1.5k
« Reply #6 on: April 8, 2008, 10:35:11 PM »
Thanks for the replies, especially to Gustikk, Moc, and shortly CS for their critiques.

A couple of statements:
Quote
If the dragons are going to specialize in the really nasty armor, the lord doesn't need the lance.  If you give him a scatter laser instead, you save enough points to get another dragon.  I think that will be a more broadly useful setup.

I had toyed with that idea, but in the end decided that if the Wraithguard and Fire Dragons get tied up for any reason, my AT is short-ranged. By adding a BL Wraithlord, it gives me a third option should the other two go sour.

Quote from: Gustikk
I think this is a good illustration of minimum upgrades suited to the task at hand. The Defenders and Storm Guardians have only the weapon upgrades which merited their inclusion.
Quote from: moc065
...where a Concealing Warlock for the Guardians (and more of them), would possible have a better overal effect.

Gustikk had it right. Instead of providing Warlocks with Conceal which adds points to a unit, I believe  that I should be making use of the terrain instead. Granted that in light terrain situations, these units will suffer. However, the additional target priorities make it difficult for the enemy to target them outright - the Wraithlord, Wraithguard, Fire Dragons, and Harlequins are of higher priorities to most enemies.

Quote from: moc065
Again, some stuff to deal with Hordes; but he new Orks could be bad with their Speed and Numbers, so overall its about, Average

Unfortunately I haven't had the chance to play the new Orks, so you're probably right.

Quote from: moc065
Certain things like the 3 Jetbikes look like they were thrown in last minute...

Haha. They've been actually in the list since Day 1. But yes, they do appear out of place and they've performed extremely well! The reason why I keep them is I lack speed. Walking Wraithguard need a mobile counterpart, since I'm tying up Harlequins and a supporting unit behind them. The Vyper (cheap) and Jetbikes make up for this flaw.

And finally, a statement on the odd numbers:
I just like being odd. ;P

 


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