Topic: Necron WBB and Falling Back questions.

[Lord of Winter and War]

Right this came up in one of my games today and I was not sure how it was resolved. Lets say that a Necron unit took some casualties, and there was some damaged Necrons. Lets say that same squad retreats for some reason. Are the Damaged necrons 'moved with the squad' or are they lost now, that the squad has moved before the WBB roles were made?

Also, this other situation. Lets say, that a Lord was part of a squad, and then died in combat. The squad retreats and is cut down. The lord was 'dead' and not part of the squad at the time, as he was damaged. Does the Lord become removed with the squad, or does he stay and still be able to attempt his 'I'll be back' role?

Kinda curious situations, that I am unsure how are resolved. Obviously, I support the resolutions that favour the Necrons. But I am not sure which of the answers is most correct.

[Bonham63]

I believe the Necron FAQ, which is available on the GW website covers both these situations.

[medd]

Link to the FAQ, to make things easier...
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1180146_Necrons_FAQ_2004-08_5th_Edition.pdf

[Lord of Winter and War]

I believe the Necron FAQ, which is available on the GW website covers both these situations.

No, it does not. Has some similar situations, but not the exact ones I mention and thus is useless in this regard.

[Doopsie]

The FAQ very clearly answers your first question. Simply ignore the bit about the res-orb, as it doesn't apply in your situation, and follow the rest of the answer to the question "If a unit falls back..."

As to the second, I am not positive as to what is correct, but would probably remove the lord with the unit. My reasoning is that, had the Lord risen, he would have joined the squad he to which he was previously attached. Therefore, he is still a part of that squad even after falling.

[Lord of Winter and War]

The FAQ very clearly answers your first question. Simply ignore the bit about the res-orb, as it doesn't apply in your situation, and follow the rest of the answer to the question "If a unit falls back..."

Ah okay, that makes sense why I couldn't see it . Answers the question perfectly.


The argument for the lord, is that he is no longer part of the squad, and as he is an independent character is is not a part of the unit. Also, he doesn't require any other necron type in order to resurrect.

[Gutstikk]

I'd agree with your interpretation of the Lord, as he needs no like unit to repair, and though would automatically rejoin a unit if within 2", I don't believe a specific provision is made requiring him to rejoin a unit he was joined to when killed.

[TheGreatAvatar]

Since the Lord is part of the unit, he is swept along with the rest of the damaged models withing the unit.

[Lord of Winter and War]

Since the Lord is part of the unit, he is swept along with the rest of the damaged models withing the unit.

But hes dead, so thus is not part of any unit.

I'd agree with your interpretation of the Lord, as he needs no like unit to repair, and though would automatically rejoin a unit if within 2", I don't believe a specific provision is made requiring him to rejoin a unit he was joined to when killed.

Aye, thats my train of thought exactly.

[Deputy57]

This is the way i would look at the second situation.  The Lord is part of the unit so if he fell he would move with the unit until they made there wbb.  I feel that unfortunately wether alive or dead if with the unit when it gets swept the Lord is lost.  The Lord wouldn't get a wbb in he was alive and swept.  The independant character rule says that they join or leave in the movement phase so they are stuck with the unit until such time.

[Theareen]

When a unit with the necron special rule is down he is treated as not being there. If the lord was put down prior to the sweeping advance he does not leave the table. If he then stands back up he then makes his own squad. if he happens to be within two inches of another unit he can join it according to the independent character rules.

[Recluse]

The only way I think we can come to a conclusion is to find rules that cover the situation. 

Question 1

The codex says to ignore fallen models(WBB pg 13) and the FAQ says to move them(top right, first page).  I am guessing that the FAQ overrules the codex.

Question 2

There is no explicit answer but, an answer can be deduced from the WBB rule pg 13 of the Necron Codex.

 Repaired models are placed in coherency with, and join a unit. 

Logically, a model cannot join a unit he is already in.  Repaired models join a unit.  From this, we find that fallen models cannot be part of that unit.  If fallen models are not part of a unit, they will not be destroyed by a sweeping advance.

[Gutstikk]

That sounds about right. Probably gonna link this into the faq sticky.

[Theareen]

technically the FAQ is just a suggested way that the rule should be handled in a given situation. They dont "trump" anything. you dont have to use the FAQ on a given rule its just that most of the time that is the way you want to read the rule because of edition changes or the like.

[TheGreatAvatar]

The Lord is DAMAGED not dead.  Yes, for certain things he is ignored but he is still considered part of the unit.  Nothing in the rules states otherwise.  If the same unit was ported through a Monolith, would the Lord get ported as well.

By your interpretation (the Lord is dead thus no longer part of the unit) any damaged model is no longer be part of the unit and, well, the rules in the codex and FAQ flatly deny that.  Nothing in the codex states that, the Monolith treats them as still part of the unit, and the FAQ explicitly states damaged models stay with the unit both in falling back AND in sweeping advances!
 

[Khodexus]

The lord stays with the unit, this is true, but sweeping advance only denies WBB for those models that are actually sweeped.  Thus if the Lord is swept with the unit, he does not get WBB, but if the Lord falls before the unit is swept, then he get his WBB.

You check for WBB at the time the model falls, not at the end of the phase/turn.  The FAQ says they stay with the unit if it falls back, but it does not say that fallen models are swept with the rest of the unit.

[Gutstikk]

The lord stays with the unit, this is true, but sweeping advance only denies WBB for those models that are actually sweeped.  Thus if the Lord is swept with the unit, he does not get WBB, but if the Lord falls before the unit is swept, then he get his WBB.

You check for WBB at the time the model falls, not at the end of the phase/turn.  The FAQ says they stay with the unit if it falls back, but it does not say that fallen models are swept with the rest of the unit.

Exactly so. The deal here is that the lord falls before the sweeping advance occurs, so cannot be swept, as only models that are standing can be swept. Additionally... moving this to the rules forum.

[don_mondo]

The only way I think we can come to a conclusion is to find rules that cover the situation. 

Question 1

The codex says to ignore fallen models(WBB pg 13) and the FAQ says to move them(top right, first page).  I am guessing that the FAQ overrules the codex.

Question 2

There is no explicit answer but, an answer can be deduced from the WBB rule pg 13 of the Necron Codex.

 Repaired models are placed in coherency with, and join a unit. 

Logically, a model cannot join a unit he is already in.  Repaired models join a unit.  From this, we find that fallen models cannot be part of that unit.  If fallen models are not part of a unit, they will not be destroyed by a sweeping advance.

So those same downed models, since they are not part of the unit, cannot be teleported through the Monolith, right? Can't have it both ways. Either they are part of the unit and can use the Monolith 2nbd chance WBB or they're not part of the unit and cannot.

[Khodexus]

The models can be part of the unit, and still be unaffected by a sweeping advance.  It destroys only models caught by it, and the models already 'dead' aren't, even if they're still attached to the unit.

Thus, yes, you CAN have it both ways, just not the ways Anti is trying to explain it.

[don_mondo]

The models can be part of the unit, and still be unaffected by a sweeping advance.  It destroys only models caught by it, and the models already 'dead' aren't, even if they're still attached to the unit.

Thus, yes, you CAN have it both ways, just not the ways Anti is trying to explain it.

No, they CANNOT (see, I can capitalize words too......... ) be unaffected if they are part of the unit. Sweeping Advance removes the unit. It is not limited to only models caught by it. Page 40: "The falling back UNIT is destroyed." Not the falling back models, not the models caught by the sweeping advance, but the falling back unit. Since the downed models are part of the falling back unit, as confirmed by the FAQ in that they fall back with their unit, they are removed along with the rest of their unit.