News: No news is good news...

Login  |  Register

Author Topic: "Orkzilla" list?  (Read 2463 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Satanic Joker Jester

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 997
  • Country: 00
  • Armies: Eldar
"Orkzilla" list?
« on: March 6, 2008, 02:30:34 AM »
can orks make a list in say, 1000 points which would be the equivalent of nidzilla lists for example?

 i was thinking of doing a list with a few mega nobs, some nobs, warboss, trukk boys for troops i guess..and a battle wagon for heavy,

 and of course theme it as bad moon,

 anyone have experience with these types of lists?  how do they work out in games?
another day, just breathe.

Looking for a new army project...
Eldar         Necrons
6-0-1       4-1-1

Possible, that it could all be wonderful~
Sweet the sound, as all the stars come crashing down~

Offline Arkion

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 998
Re: "Orkzilla" list?
« Reply #1 on: March 6, 2008, 03:01:55 AM »
I don't have anything to add to this, other than I'm also very curious.  I like Orks, but the idea of painting a million boyz turns me off.  If there were a way to play 'Leet Orks, I'd be all in.

Offline Jehoel

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 904
  • Country: dk
  • Insanity is the sanest choice
Re: "Orkzilla" list?
« Reply #2 on: March 6, 2008, 06:41:09 AM »
I havn't had any experience with this list but I like the idea.

I think you will have a hard time winning though. Orks are a horde army even more so than tyranids (they still have plenty of big monsters as well) and one of their prime strenght is in numbers.

Your battlewagon would have to be kittet out with all the upgrades you can find to keep it from being destroyed as its cargo of boys will be what seperates a victory from a loss.

Mega Nobs I havn't tried but I plan to (just for show). Remember that they don't possess an inv. save and so need to be used with caution. Don't base your strategy on their success but use them as a wildcard (if they get through its great and they will rip things open...if not; doesn't matter much, since your attention is elsewhere)



Bahzhakhaim Zhai Dialcaman of the Biel-tan
___________________ ___________________ ____

"I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it." - Jack Handey

Offline EngeKomkommer

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 230
Re: "Orkzilla" list?
« Reply #3 on: March 6, 2008, 07:17:28 AM »
My experiences with one expensive nob mob havent gone well since this codex, but I'd be interested to see a winning one to use against power gamers.

Offline Satanic Joker Jester

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 997
  • Country: 00
  • Armies: Eldar
Re: "Orkzilla" list?
« Reply #4 on: March 6, 2008, 03:28:28 PM »
well i guess i have my summer 40k project now than dont i :)

 i'll get my hands on a codex this weekend or so and start planning it out, i love using elite armies, my 1k point eldar list has 23-25 models including vehicles, sometimes less.  and i always have a good win loss ratio,  but lately i've been bored and want something new, probably going to start fantasy as well. 

 But elite orks..bad moons especially ( just love the fluff + color scheme ) , mega nob squad, nob squad, battle wagon, truk boys..possibly even one large boyz squad on foot? a can perhaps...will have to look into this a lot more,

how about something like...

warboss, not so decked out, with a mob of mega knobs ( he does the initiative attacks, knobs handle the claws etc)  in a wagon

nobs in a wagon

mega nobs as troops in a wagon ( 3 wagons too much?)

 then nobs in a trukk..

then boys in truks?

 this is just very very rough, the knobs + mega nobz will be the power hitters, of course, rest is kind of just extra,

 dont have the codex handy but along these lines, basically few models as i can ( but dont wanna go kans etc etc)
« Last Edit: March 6, 2008, 03:38:02 PM by Satanic Joker Jester »
another day, just breathe.

Looking for a new army project...
Eldar         Necrons
6-0-1       4-1-1

Possible, that it could all be wonderful~
Sweet the sound, as all the stars come crashing down~

Offline EngeKomkommer

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 230
Re: "Orkzilla" list?
« Reply #5 on: March 6, 2008, 06:41:02 PM »
Take two warbosses and you only need take nobs. No need for any boyz.
Take two big meks with SAGs and you could have loads of dreds. So if you want small numbers, theres loads of ways to do it.
I'm looking forward to seeing how effective it is. I'm tempted to buy two SOAs to use in my current army and build from there to make a mek army.

Offline Ner'Zhul

  • Necrontyr Immortal | Ripper
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1156
  • Needs more Desu
Re: "Orkzilla" list?
« Reply #6 on: March 6, 2008, 06:56:56 PM »
The Largest point sinks (in order i believe) Flash Gitz, Nobs, MegaNobz, Battle Wagon, and Thraka. A pretty good zilla list imho would be

Thraka
Warboss on Bike
Flash Gitz in Battle Wagon
Nob Bikers
MegaNobz to run with thraka

You could probably take that all the way up to 2K+ I am not sure if it would be competative, but you could really put the hurt on.

Offline Gutstikk

  • Infinity Circuit | Title here to be dreaded 'til further notice. Rummy's Deepstriking Pylon
  • Ancient
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7829
  • Country: 00
  • I am a Wolf.
Re: "Orkzilla" list?
« Reply #7 on: March 6, 2008, 07:35:05 PM »
Megamek/Biker Boss as HQs. Dredds as troops. Meganobs on trukks/dedicated battlewagons for elites. Fast attack is not really necessary here. Killa Kans for heavy support.

Realistically we could get something like this:
160 (?): Biker Boss, PK, Kombi-skorcha, Cybork Body, Attack Squig
  80 (?): Mega Mek with Bosspole
240: 6 Meganobs
225: Dedicated Battlewagon: Deffrolla, , Wrecka, Killcannon, 3 Big Shootas, Ard Case, Extra Armor, Grot Riggas
100: Deff Dred, 2 rokkits and Riggas
  90: Deff Dred, 2 rokkits and Riggas
  50: Killa Kan with Grotzookas
  45: Killa Kan with Rokkit

Assuming my unit costs are correct [no codex on hand ATM], this army list comes out to 1000pts and would hit like a ton of bricks.

Offline MagicJuggler

  • Juggling a load of balls
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2012
  • Country: 00
  • Nobody expects the Spanish Ynquisition.
Re: "Orkzilla" list?
« Reply #8 on: March 7, 2008, 01:12:45 PM »
One problem though is that Flash Gitz SUCK horribly. 25 points for 1 S5 shot vs. 24 points for 8 S4 shots means that Shoota Boyz are a far better investment for shooting stuff. Placing the Gitz in a wagon is a waste also for it would require a second heavy support, (while shootas in a wagon is a heavy support and troops).

Offline EngeKomkommer

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 230
Re: "Orkzilla" list?
« Reply #9 on: March 7, 2008, 01:32:41 PM »
One problem though is that Flash Gitz SUCK horribly. 25 points for 1 S5 shot vs. 24 points for 8 S4 shots means that Shoota Boyz are a far better investment for shooting stuff. Placing the Gitz in a wagon is a waste also for it would require a second heavy support, (while shootas in a wagon is a heavy support and troops).

Hang on.
Flash gits are: 25 points for 1 S5, Average of 3.5 AP and 24" range and the option for some upgrades.
VS
Ard boys with shootas: 10 points for 2 S4, 6AP and 18" range.
Both have a 4+ save... not as straight forward as your putting it.
Only bad thing imo is that they take up a heavy support slot.

Offline MagicJuggler

  • Juggling a load of balls
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2012
  • Country: 00
  • Nobody expects the Spanish Ynquisition.
Re: "Orkzilla" list?
« Reply #10 on: March 7, 2008, 02:10:25 PM »
I was talking naked Shoota Boyz. A 250 pt flash git mob of 10 is 10 S5 shots at range 24, while a 195-pt Boy mob of 30 is 9 S5 shots at range 36 and 54 S4 range 18 shots. The moment the Git mob takes at most 3 casualties, it has to test for leadership and it does not have a bosspole, while it would take 20 casualties for the Boy mob to have to test.

Of course, if you're mounting up the Shoota boyz (max 20 boyz, 2 big shootas, add 25 extra points because battlewagon-65 points of Boyz extra), you only have 6 S5 shots (effective range 48") instead of 10 but you still have 34 S4 shots at range 18, but since you are mounted your effective range is now 30". The unit will still resist most assaults as the vehicle is well-armored and when moving fast enough is only hit on a 6 anyways.

Offline EngeKomkommer

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 230
Re: "Orkzilla" list?
« Reply #11 on: March 7, 2008, 03:46:40 PM »
I was talking naked Shoota Boyz. A 250 pt flash git mob of 10 is 10 S5 shots at range 24, while a 195-pt Boy mob of 30 is 9 S5 shots at range 36 and 54 S4 range 18 shots.

Try, but if your talking about naked shoota boys, the flash gitz have other advantages.
The AP averages out at 3.5, not bad for marines (Every other turn no power armour saves on average).
They also have a 4+ save, so against most armys basic guns, they'll actualy have a save and the option for more upgrades.
And I forgot to mention the two wounds, so thats 20 wounds with 4+ save in the flash gitz or 30 wounds with a 6+ save in that boys mob of yours.

They're basicly a mob of nobz in 'eavy armour (Same points) but shooty rather then hacky. IMO they're better compared to a nobz mob then shoota boyz.
« Last Edit: March 7, 2008, 03:48:41 PM by EngeKomkommer »

Offline Gutstikk

  • Infinity Circuit | Title here to be dreaded 'til further notice. Rummy's Deepstriking Pylon
  • Ancient
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7829
  • Country: 00
  • I am a Wolf.
Re: "Orkzilla" list?
« Reply #12 on: March 7, 2008, 04:06:22 PM »
Also, flash gitz are a style unit - sort of like a meganobz squad. They are not a necessary elemtent of the codex in general, but for some people [such as myself], anything less simply will not do!

Plus, I give them the S6 version of the gun. Which does change things a little bit; it gives them some effect vs enemy light vehicles, enemy monsters, and enemy ICs. They are not particularly spectacular in close combat but this is easily remedied by having something nearby that is [warboss, kans or dreds]. I tend to have a Big Mek with bosspole, burna, Eavy Armor and KFF joined to the team, and the Gitz have FNP as well. This makes the strong center of my army along with a dred or two, to which I can staple a few boyz squads and do some serious damage.

Could you spend those points better? Well, yes, of course you could. But do I want to? Nope!

Offline MagicJuggler

  • Juggling a load of balls
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2012
  • Country: 00
  • Nobody expects the Spanish Ynquisition.
Re: "Orkzilla" list?
« Reply #13 on: March 7, 2008, 04:17:48 PM »
I was talking naked Shoota Boyz. A 250 pt flash git mob of 10 is 10 S5 shots at range 24, while a 195-pt Boy mob of 30 is 9 S5 shots at range 36 and 54 S4 range 18 shots.

Try, but if your talking about naked shoota boys, the flash gitz have other advantages.
The AP averages out at 3.5, not bad for marines (Every other turn no power armour saves on average).
They also have a 4+ save, so against most armys basic guns, they'll actualy have a save and the option for more upgrades.
And I forgot to mention the two wounds, so thats 20 wounds with 4+ save in the flash gitz or 30 wounds with a 6+ save in that boys mob of yours.

They're basicly a mob of nobz in 'eavy armour (Same points) but shooty rather then hacky. IMO they're better compared to a nobz mob then shoota boyz.

I did the math, and point-for point, Shootas will still kill marines faster, because the Dakkagun is only one shot and potential for good AP, it still suffers from being in Orky BS...

Given 9 snazzguns (as the painboy must give his up), that's 3 hits, 2 wounding...on average, that's 1.33 dead marines per turn (50% chance of it being .66 dead marines, 50% of it being 2). 20 naked boys kill 1.11 for half the cost. (120 points vs. 250)...in terms of point-input/damage output efficiency, this is not good for the gitz.

Ultimately, all they are is a style unit. They don't have practical gaming associated with them and are effectively a handicap unit.

Offline Satanic Joker Jester

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 997
  • Country: 00
  • Armies: Eldar
Re: "Orkzilla" list?
« Reply #14 on: March 8, 2008, 08:23:32 PM »
its all about style.  Winning with the units you love, and playing the kind of game you want to play. 

 personally, i field weird lists with units i like, i dont look so much for the synergy in a list when i build it so much as the units i like, finding a way to make it work though is the rewarding part. 

 Same will go for this ork list, im aiming for 15-25 units in this list, including vehicles. and i will make it work,

 can't wait.
another day, just breathe.

Looking for a new army project...
Eldar         Necrons
6-0-1       4-1-1

Possible, that it could all be wonderful~
Sweet the sound, as all the stars come crashing down~

Offline bebe

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 737
  • Country: 00
  • In Canada no one hears you scream
Re: "Orkzilla" list?
« Reply #15 on: March 8, 2008, 10:42:57 PM »
Quote
personally, i field weird lists with units i like, i dont look so much for the synergy in a list when i build it so much as the units i like, finding a way to make it work though is the rewarding part.

Bravo! I'm trying to fit Old Zogwort into my list because I like him. I'm going to test him out. I use a warphead now and Nobz bikerz. Both may not be the strongest choices but as you say- field what appeals and learn to make it work. There are very few poor choices in the Ork codex. Almost anything in it has its good uses - even our neutered grots and expensive Flash Gitz. Go for it.
Big man, Pig man, Ha ha, charade you are

You well heeled big wheel, Ha ha, charade you are

Offline Kiefatar

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1292
  • ...and Margarita Shooters!
Re: "Orkzilla" list?
« Reply #16 on: March 9, 2008, 10:02:03 AM »
25 pts for 1 shots, or 30 pts for 2 shots.

That second shot really boost their killing potential by double.

As I stated in my big ork sticky. If I find people buying Flash Gitz and NOT giving them More Dakka, I am going to fire them out of my home made Shokk Attack Gun (read Woodchipper).

As for the Gitz themselves.... 50% of the time they will be AP3 or better, and their firepower isn't anything to skoff at, specifically with their resilience.
The Flan of Victory! Delicious!

For all your Ork Needs! -
http://www.40konline.com/mos/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=861&topic=155110.0

40K Online Campaign - Despoiler Organizer
http://www.40konline.com/community/index.php?topic=162397.0

Offline The Spaceman

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 821
  • Zap
Re: "Orkzilla" list?
« Reply #17 on: March 9, 2008, 05:06:05 PM »
The way I can see Flash Gits being useful is not their shooting but in their resilince. Plague marines are one of the most annoying opponents. Once a squad of them is on an objective they can be very difficult to dislodge. I see Flash gits as fulfilling this role.

Their shooting is too random and the upgrades cost a bundle, but they have decent armour and feel no pain.

Has anyone done a statistical computation of the number of bolter shots to kill 1 flashgit vs 1 shootaboy?
To those who say it can't be done.
I just did it.

Armies
Black Templar 2500pts
Orks 3500 pts
Imperial Guard 3000 points
Dark Eldar 3000 pts
Blood Angels 1500pts
Chaos 1500pts

Offline EngeKomkommer

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 230
Re: "Orkzilla" list?
« Reply #18 on: March 9, 2008, 05:21:24 PM »
Well from a space marine firing those bolter shots..
12 for one flash git, and 3 bolter shots to kill a shoota boy.

Offline MagicJuggler

  • Juggling a load of balls
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2012
  • Country: 00
  • Nobody expects the Spanish Ynquisition.
Re: "Orkzilla" list?
« Reply #19 on: March 9, 2008, 05:50:45 PM »
Vs. small-arms fire, there's no doubt that the Flash Gitz are unparalleled at soaking fire. Thus most small-arms fire instead will go to the larger Boyz-Shoota mobs, and the Gitz will instead be reserved for the S8 weapons. I remember an old Guard vs. Marine game I played when I used a Drop Troop Special Weapon Squad with Demo Charge and wiped out my opponent's Devestator Squad to the man with a well-placed shot. The same can happen with Flash Gitz.

It takes 9.1827 bolter rounds to kill a Warbiker, which costs the exact same amount as a Flash Git. However, the bikes have the superior speed, the ability to take a Warboss with Bosspole, better durability vs. Ordnance Weaponry (due to the built-in cover save) and powerweapons (as higher Toughness means more than Feel no Pain), and much better shooting, 10 Warbikers killing about 3.6877896 marines in a single round of shooting on average (3 twin-linked shots is a much better proposition than 1 or even 2 regular shots with cruddy AP); the Boss still has the ability to take a Klaw and Bosspole (the latter helping the unit compensate for its size).

 


Powered by EzPortal