Topic: Spacemarines vs Orks Any tips?

[naaki1201]

Hello

I'm  a spacemarine player, still pretty new to the game only played about 6 games and won 4
I normaly play against Orks and the last 2 games i have lost. Which was not very cool.

What should my  kill orders be?
 We norm play 1500 point armies.

enemy player uses (what i remember)

6- defocopters
6 -attack bikes
3- killercans (2x rocket launchers 1X grotzooker)
4- meganobs( rocketlaunchers)
4-meganobs( rocket launchers)
1-warboss
10 nobs ( 1x rocketlauncher, think the nobs have increased armor 4+)
Cant remember if theres anything else

My army
10 - termies(assault cannon+ cyclone launcher
1- spacemarine captain ( terminator armour, stormbolter+powersword)
10- marines( 1x lascannon)
10-marines(1x lascannon)+Rhino(hunterkiller,stormbolter)
5- devastator marines( missile laucher 2x multimelta)
5- devastator marines( 2 x missile launcher 2x multimelta)
1- ironclad dreadnaught( hunterkiller, CCW and hurricane bolter
Think thats it 

So anyone got any tacs i should do to own his orkies
or any thing to change in my army list??
What should i be trying to kill First??

I have been killing the defocopters and trying to get the meganobs.
But by that time  my marines get into CC with his Nobs.

Hope someone can give some tips Thanks

[Insanator]

Do your tactical marine squads have flamers? If not get them they are free and burn orks in large swaths.

I also wouldn't spread your heavy weapons in the devastator squads like that, I would do one squad missiles and one squad multi-meltas, this way you don't have a power loss for fire spread, if you fire the missiles at a squad doing small blasts the multi-meltas only kill two, but if you configured it so that they have same weapons across the squad you can do small blasts if needed and the multi-meltas guarantee tank destruction.

[Leocuta]

Try and change your Rhino to a Razorback, basically the same but with good guns. Then cut your Maines down to 5 for carrying capacity and then also for upgrades(do the Lascannon/TL Plasma Gun option) Then cut your othersquad down to 5 if you play objectives if you play enilation dont. If you DO play objectives add scouts it gives you 3 scoring units and then add 4 snipers and a heavy bolter. Put the Ironclad in a drop pod and have no upgrades, it is really good in CC. Then take out a devastator squad bit of a waste of points, use a nromal dreadnought with TL Lascannons/TL Autocannons. Take out your Captain and put a Master of the Forge w/ Conversoin Beamer or Chaplain w/ Jump Pack and Digital Weapons. Run the chaplain w/ the dreadnought which can come in first turn. And by then the chaplain should be near enough to the dreadnought, which cant assault the turn it comes in. This may not be Legal i am not sure as I dont know th allowances, but I remember that Master of the Forge can make Dreadnoughts Elites OR Heavy Support.

Hope I helped

[ak-73]

More Missile Launchers and less Lascannons/Multi-Meltas?

Also compare the following:
5 Devastators 1 MM, 2 ML = 135 points.
5 Sternguards 2 ML = 135 points.
You lose one MM and the signum. What do you gain for that? You can start shooting Ork hordes at 30'' (with AP 4)with the non-ML guys. At 24'' and below you get to fire Hellfire rounds that wound everything at 2+ (or fire at 18'' with AP3). And even better yet the surviving Orks will have to deal with A2.

Yes, you lose one anti-tank shot. Your anti-infantry will increase significantly though.

Just saying.

Also about the Nobs: isn't it easy to force them to fall back? 5 Sternguards double-tap their bolters at 12'': let's say 7 hit using hellfire rounds. 5 wound. No saves.
If you give those 5 Sternguards 5 Combi-Meltas, they each obliterate 1 Meganobs with a single hit. And still can charge (but have no power weapon). They are as fragile as normal marines though.


Alex

[naaki1201]

Woop, Thanks for all the replies
Will def try some of these. 

[Leocuta]

Considering the Army there are ALOT of Anti-Infantry things so any Tank/Vehicle will be a pain. So these are your opponents Vehicles/Tanks:
1. Killa Kans x3

I know there are only 3 but there are 8 Meganobz in Mega Armour, so this is giving then a 2+ save, and that can hurt. A MM can take it out AP1. His things that can take out the Killa Kans and Meganobz(Easily)

1.Dreadnought can in CC but would be better with two of them
2.Devastator squads can but another Dreadnought with TL Lascannons is pretty nice.
3.Termies can in assault but they're good anyway, you can go wrong with them.
4.Tactical Marines CAN but your opponent may just target them and with a good round of shooting will decimate them or in CC

You said you normally plays these orks with this army. But if you start playing someone with 2 Land Raiders or something then you're stuck as they will crush you. You have alot of Anti Infantry and that's good, but you're ork opponent doesn't have too many 11 and then Meganobs, Deffkoptas and Attack Bikes. I think you should make two armies one with Anti Infantry for someone like this and then one with some more Anti Tank if you play a game with someone who has loads of Tanks. The good thing about anti tank is that they can also take out infantry where as anti infantry can't take out tanks with ease.

E.g
Razorback-TL Lascannons, TL Plasma Gun
vs
10 Ork Nobz

3 dead and likely this wont be the only thing shooting them or assaulting them.

5 man Scout squad-Snipers and Heavy Bolter
vs
Killa Kans

At BEST a glancing hit which can Immobilize, and then wreak, but it is unlikely that you will get two 6's and waste a couple rounds of shooting, when think of this.

5 man Scout squad-Snipers and Heavy Bolter
vs
10 Ork Nobz

7 dead. combined with the Razorback that squad is gone meaning he lost his only objective scoring unit or you get 1 KP.


Hope this helped

[ak-73]

You said you normally plays these orks with this army. But if you start playing someone with 2 Land Raiders or something then you're stuck as they will crush you. You have alot of Anti Infantry and that's good, but you're ork opponent doesn't have too many 11 and then Meganobs, Deffkoptas and Attack Bikes. I think you should make two armies one with Anti Infantry for someone like this and then one with some more Anti Tank if you play a game with someone who has loads of Tanks. The good thing about anti tank is that they can also take out infantry where as anti infantry can't take out tanks with ease.

Yes, but anti-tank can usually take out only 1 infantry model or so which is good at nothing if the enemy fields hordes (30 Ork Boys squads anyone?)-

That said, the challenge if list building is to find one list that does reasonably well against all kinds of armies (all-comers). Tailoring your list to an enemy is all too easy often. For example: if the Space marine player takes a LR and 3 Dakka Predators, there'll be plenty of dead orks. Especially if that Crusader contains 5+ Assault Terminators with 4+ Lightning Claws.

Or just think what Whirldwinds or Thunderfire cannons can do to hordes.

But that's not the point: I think naaki1201's list has bit too much anti-tank and not enough anti-horde. I wouldn't advice him to go totally anti-infantry. He just needs some more anti-infantry so that he doesn't suffer when he plays against mech.

That said, I would consider dropping Terminators. 10 Terminators is very costly at 1500.

Alex

[Leocuta]

I think that maybe an AntiInfantry and Anti Tanks armies would be ok, but maybe changing them to assault termies, and then the Ironclad to super CC. That would be really Anti Infantry

Hope This Helped

[naaki1201]

Ty all.

Ye Ive only been doing 40k for  5months. still busy building up my army, aiming to get  tanks,ect.
thanks for the tips peeps,

[dalaran1991]

Wow. Your lucky you aint facing crazy nob bikers or battlewagon nobz. I've been playing for a while yet still struggling with that unit, as do so many veteran marines players.

I understand your just starting your collection, so no vehicles yet. And your friend is exactly playing to the ork strength (which is number). He has an elite army that match your marines man to man. Do the following:

-Ditch the captain and get a chaplain, maybe cassius. You can use the captain model for him. He's good at cc and give a boost to your assault termies.
-Change all your tactical termies into asssault termies led by a chaplain or a libby. Tactical termies work amphetamine parrot against ork. Reason: they dont ditch out more firepower than tactical squads and wont survive 30+ attacks even with termies armor. Assault termies with a mix of LC/TH (3/2 is ideal vs ork) slice through orks. Deploy them as counter-attack units to bail your tact squads out.
-Use 2 devies squads of 5 man, each with 4 missile launchers. Ork can't harm ya in shooting so ya dont need the extra bodies. 8 blasts kills lots of ork boyz and will take out his defcofter and killerkans. And are cheap.
-To deal with meganobz (a really sub-obtimal choice for orks) get plasma gun and plasma cannons in tact squads coz their cheaper. A full volley from each squad will take out 2-3 nobz. The rest can be handled with your powerfist sarge.
-Put a libby with gate of infinity and smite in your tactical squad to allow them to redeploy. Smite also kill nobz and ignore their FNP.
-Use your ironclad as a dual-autocannon dread. Really cc dread dont do dick against orks. The rifleman dread however can either take out his defcofter, nobz or put wounds on his warboss.

First, take out his defcofter and bikers so he can't tie you up. Then shoot the kans. The meganobz are slow so tactical squads with plasma weapons will take care of them. Remember, shoot the hell out of them and when they're weak enough unleash the assault termies and close the deal. Use assault termies to counter-attack any assault.  Happy hunting

[Leocuta]

I can see why you said that Ironclad vs Orks aren't very good. Although charging they get 4 attacks against 16 from a squad of Meganobz with Power Klaws it is going down, the upside is you get a free gun. Also if you take out their Meganobz and Warboss then charge in Only someting of Strength 7 or more realy is going to cause you a problem unless a good throw, but maybe use is as a normal dreadnough and use TL Autocannon w/ TL Autocannon/ML.

Hope this Helped

[ak-73]

Also the supreme Ork Fighters of the galaxy are the Crimson Fists. Consider Pedro Kantor. Pair him with Assault Terminators with Lightning Claws and one or two Thunder hammers and watch the enemy fall ork by ork.

Alex

[Azash76]

Lose one of the devastator squads - saves you 150 pts
Lose half those terminators -saves you 230 pts
Switch them to Assault Terminators -saves you 30 pts
Lose the Hunter Killer on the rhino -saves you 10 pts
Lose the Lascannons in the tac squads Missile launchers will work find plus more frag is better against orks- save you 20pts
Lose the Ironclad -145
Lose the Captain -140

Points to play with 735

Get Cassius +125 (Toughness 6 comes with a combi-flamer hellfire rounds and he you get to re-roll in melee not to mention being fearless and costing 15pts less)
Get a whirlwind  +85 (str 4 ap5 large blase ignores cover ordinace or it can shoot st 5 ap 4 large blast ordinance. 48" range doesn't need line of site...aka death with tracks for orks)
Get that second squad in a rhino +35pts (always good to have squads mobile so they can bunker up or move up to objectives)
Get a Land Raider either standard or Redeemer (w/MM if its a redeemer) +250 (Ork player looks like short of the defkopta's he is short on heavy armor killing)
Get a Dreadnaught with Twinlinked Autocannon and heavy flamer +125 (Heavy 2 twin linked str 7 ap 4 plus an ignores cover str 5 ap 4 good fire support during the advance and great when it gets in flamer and cc range)
Get a Landspeeder Typhoon +90 with a heavy flamer (more missiles more frags more light armor killing for those kans and at heavy 2 kits good at whittling those defkopta's to nothin in short order)

Total changes 710

That gives you another 25 or so to play with. I would think about combi's on your sergeants in your tac squads or giving one of them a powerfist.  combi-melta's would make them effective against the kans.

Simple list. You stand back and barage the poor orks with everything you can throw at it eliminating the Kopta's first then moving on to the cans. You march your land raider right at them to soak up fire and scare the crap out of them. After the first turn you start advancing 6" firing all the way if you meet any orks you have enough heavy flamers to gut them.  Anything thats left alive your termies get out and shred your tac squads will be coming up and will be able to use rapid fire and flamers. That ork list won't live through that. If you don't get first turn you castle behind your dread and your land raider and stash your whirlwind in cover. Ork's cant shoot for crap so between some cover saves and armor 14 your not going to take that heavy of loses.

One thing if you go redeemer your looking at moving up firing away with the assault cannons till you can get in range with the flamestorms. So you moving 12" at a time. If your going with a Land Raider you looking at going 6" at a time and plastering anything that moves with 2 twin linked lascannon shots every turn till you get on target.

[Arkreaver]

I have to pretty much agree with everything said so far, just a few things that I think warrent mentioning that haven't really been hit on.

First off like the poster above me said land raiders would be really nice in your list.  They are a great way to deliver your assault termies (assuming you go with them) to where they need to be.  Only thing I would have to add would be to really look at getting yourself a land raider crusader.  The reason being that all the weapons on the crusader are basically designed around killing orks.  I find that to be a better option over both the redeemer and the godhammer, because you can move the first few turns at 12" and still hit the enemy with the assault cannon.  Then once you get to withen 12" of the them you start moving at 6" and can then hit them with 2x hurricane bolters at rapid fire range and the assault cannon, while still being able to shoot the multi-melta (assuming you pay for it) at something else that really needs to be hit with a high str, low ap shot.

Next up is the thunder fire cannon, against orks it rains supreme.  4x small blasts that can rip open huge holes in your opponents ork mobs.  Also with the different ammo types you have a fire mode for every occasion.  Lastly the tech marine allows you to fortify any ruins on the board so you can fortify a ruin and then throw some scouts into it with camo cloaks to give them 2+ cover save at all times.

Also I think looking into land speeder typhoons would be a good idea, but unlike what Azash76 said I would just keep them with the heavy bolter.  The reason for the heavy bolter is that you can keep the land speeder further back and still utilize all of its weapons when you fire the missiles as frags and are moving 12".  This essentially gives you a 36" buffer between your speeder(s) and your opponents units.

Lastly I would say look into possibly including Vulkan He'Stan into your army.  I know that he is one of the most commonly used HQs in the Space Marines Codex but there is a reason for that, if you include lots of melta/flamers in your army he increases there usefulness two fold.

Other then that there isn't much more that I can add considering I mainly play Space Wolves.

Good luck, and happy hunting,
Arkreaver

[ak-73]

I'm shying a bit away from giving advice as the above because a tailored list can drive your opposing Ork player mad at you.

If he's been closely defeated, he better refrain from going all-out anti-Ork. Pick up on some of the advice in here (all solid) and make the changes. No fun curb stomping your Ork player friend.

Alex

[Leocuta]

Maybe if you wanted a challenge and just to see if it would be any fun (As building a completely Anti Ork army list would be a bit boring) maybe try an army list with the Orks strengths i.e. Combat.

Just an Idea for some fun!