Topic: Shotguns - any point?

[Vassoul]

Other than looking cool or fluff reasons, is there any reason to take shotguns?  Do you use them in your army?

Thanks!

['Mark']

They are assault weapons, rather than rapid fire weapons which the lasgun is. This means you can shoot at full effect first, and then launch an assault.

My vets are armed with shotguns... really effective!

[Koonitz]

Many people use shotguns. Before 4th Ed, they had the benefit of being able to move and fire twice. In 4th Ed, they've lost some effectiveness, however, they are still an assault weapon, therefore you can shoot and assault in the same turn, which can have it's own benefits.

Personally, I moved away from the Eldar because I never could use the Shuriken Catapults effectively, so I don't intend to ever use shotguns, but others do.

[Captain Spaff]

I personally like shotguns on my Rough Riders, since they are the most assaulty unit in the IG army, but there is one down side I believe to doing that. I don't have my codex on hand but I think by taking a shotgun or lasgun you lose out on the opportunity to equip your RR's with a Lance if you planned to do so. Technically I believe you could take a hunting lance with a two handed weapon since the lance is a single handed close combat weapon, but the wording like many of the entries in the Codex's confuzzles me. I'm not certain though and have always played on the safe side and either did one or the other.(Koonitz will probably correct me on it since I'm half asleep and can't recall anything about one of my favorite units)

[Vassoul]

How to you compensate for a 12" range?  I am a newb, and am having a hard time seeing how you could maneuver shotgun wielding vets into shooting range without being torn to ribbons...  I imagine that you could put them in a chimera to drive them up close.  Sorry for the stupid question.

[Koonitz]

Technically I believe you could take a hunting lance with a two handed weapon since the lance is a single handed close combat weapon, but the wording like many of the entries in the Codex's confuzzles me. I'm not certain though and have always played on the safe side and either did one or the other.(Koonitz will probably correct me on it since I'm half asleep and can't recall anything about one of my favorite units)

I believe the wording in the Codex is really actually rather clear on what can be taken with Rough Riders in this regard.

[Captain Spaff]

It's not crystal clear for me since English is my second language. I originally spoke irish, which is a disheveled and slurred version of your language.

[Iron-Hand Ace]

They're good if you want to send your men into CC right after you shoot, but aren't worth much beyond that.  I personally spend all my time trying to keep my vets out of CC; they're too many points to lose to a bunch of SMurfs.

[Sr. Commissar Gribb]

How to you compensate for a 12" range?  I am a newb, and am having a hard time seeing how you could maneuver shotgun wielding vets into shooting range without being torn to ribbons...  I imagine that you could put them in a chimera to drive them up close.  Sorry for the stupid question.

I would assume one would hold back and hope that the enemy tries to run up and then rapid fire into your ranks and then the next turn fire shotguns and charge into assault.  Other than this- i'm not too sure myself. perhaps a squad of vets with shotguns could wait until a nearby guardsman squad got charged and then in the following turn, target the straggling models (not engaged) and charge in to take out the engaged ones.

[Col. Dash]

I have deepstruck my shotgun/melta weilding vets and have never failed to at least  kill their points in shooting. So far my best is a complete squad of necron heavy destroyers in the initial volley. Plus once you do your initial shot the shotgun weilding vets are a major thorn in your enemy's side unless he chooses to go after them meaning one less unit that will make it into CC in your main lines.

[Sr. Commissar Gribb]

i've been thinking about it and this seems to be where the advantage lies.

a vet squad grunt charges an opponent in an enemy squad..

assuming he has a lp/ccw, he'll get 2 attacks + 1 for charging which will hit at his WS 3

assuming he takes a shotgun, he can shoot twice at BS 4 and THEN charge and get 1 attack + 1 for charging at WS 3 to make a total of 4 theoretical attacks (2 of which stand a better chance of hitting).

[Corax]

i've been thinking about it and this seems to be where the advantage lies.

a vet squad grunt charges an opponent in an enemy squad..

assuming he has a lp/ccw, he'll get 2 attacks + 1 for charging which will hit at his WS 3

assuming he takes a shotgun, he can shoot twice at BS 4 and THEN charge and get 1 attack + 1 for charging at WS 3 to make a total of 4 theoretical attacks (2 of which stand a better chance of hitting).

they would be good but if you added 3 flamers/grenade launchers/combination with the shotgun wielding vets (12 shotgun shots) would there be anything to assault? and if their was would it last in combat? this is of course if the dice are in your favour

what may work is if you infiltrate them into cover and out of LOS and hope that they get a chance to do some damage when the enemy approaches

['Mark']

i've been thinking about it and this seems to be where the advantage lies.

a vet squad grunt charges an opponent in an enemy squad..

assuming he has a lp/ccw, he'll get 2 attacks + 1 for charging which will hit at his WS 3

assuming he takes a shotgun, he can shoot twice at BS 4 and THEN charge and get 1 attack + 1 for charging at WS 3 to make a total of 4 theoretical attacks (2 of which stand a better chance of hitting).

they would be good but if you added 3 flamers/grenade launchers/combination with the shotgun wielding vets (12 shotgun shots) would there be anything to assault? and if their was would it last in combat? this is of course if the dice are in your favour

what may work is if you infiltrate them into cover and out of LOS and hope that they get a chance to do some damage when the enemy approaches

Yeah, that's pretty much my tactic when I use my shotgun vets... though I like having three meltas so they can take out vehicles and 3+/2+ saves as well. But this often makes the unit a prime target.

Oh, and don't forget the vet sgt with a power weapon! That guy can do a hella lot of damage!