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Author Topic: The Big Bad Wolf: Who's the toughest CC unit?  (Read 20122 times)

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Offline Deloth Vyrr

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Re: The Big Bad Wolf: Who's the toughest CC unit?
« Reply #40 on: May 6, 2006, 10:08:52 PM »
Dark Eldar Wyches. They are the best assault unit, point for point. They nerf the assault power of opponents while being potent in their own right. Only those rare units with cc weapons that ignore Invulnerable saves are a danger. And let's face it, the only one that is remotely common is the Callidus Assassin. Pariahs I've only seen used once, and the Nightbringer is not only rare but extremely hard for any assault unit to deal with.


Agreed, 12 points a Wych (13 with wych weapons) makes them offically the best point-for-point CC unit in the game, not saying they can beat everything, but almost always, a unit of wyches can beat an EQUAL point unit of anything else out there.

Offline Kritik

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Re: The Big Bad Wolf: Who's the toughest CC unit?
« Reply #41 on: May 6, 2006, 10:10:08 PM »
13 pts? Dude it's +2 for Wych Weapons. I'm ashamed of you  :(.
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Offline Deloth Vyrr

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Re: The Big Bad Wolf: Who's the toughest CC unit?
« Reply #42 on: May 6, 2006, 10:23:27 PM »
^ please please dont question me on Dark Eldar man, what codex would u be looking at? I have mine right here now, with the big "Second Edition" Stamped on it.

Check page 9 under "options" for Wyches

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« Last Edit: May 6, 2006, 10:41:44 PM by Deloth Vyrr »

Offline Kritik

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Re: The Big Bad Wolf: Who's the toughest CC unit?
« Reply #43 on: May 6, 2006, 10:29:22 PM »
Ha, ha, I'm ashamed of myself! My greatest and deepest apology.
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but now I'm just banned.



Offline Deloth Vyrr

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Re: The Big Bad Wolf: Who's the toughest CC unit?
« Reply #44 on: May 6, 2006, 10:31:44 PM »
its no problem man, no harm done, we all have times when our brain just decides to not function properly.

And maybe I was a bit harsh in my first sentence, we friends?

Offline Shade, Bankai King

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Re: The Big Bad Wolf: Who's the toughest CC unit?
« Reply #45 on: May 6, 2006, 10:33:05 PM »
Quote Removed to prevent copyright ~MTWC

Total copywright breaking
« Last Edit: May 6, 2006, 10:40:02 PM by Makenshi - Your New Evil Dictator »
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Offline Deloth Vyrr

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Re: The Big Bad Wolf: Who's the toughest CC unit?
« Reply #46 on: May 6, 2006, 10:38:23 PM »
I cited the work giving GW credit and stating where it came from. As far as I know this is permitted if its required to "clear up an issue", its not like I quoted the entire wych entry, just the "options" section
If I'm incorrect here I'll remove it

Offline Vlex

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Re: The Big Bad Wolf: Who's the toughest CC unit?
« Reply #47 on: May 6, 2006, 10:40:12 PM »
I'm suprised no one has mentioned a Chaos Lord with a retinue of Aspiring Champions. The insane amount of mutations/gifts/skills you can insert into this unit just makes it the best all-around CC unit. Of course, point-wise, wyches win out. They're a very nice unit. But with no points restrictions (and with only a single unit in an army) the Aspiring Champion unit wins out 9/10 of the times.


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Offline Shade, Bankai King

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Re: The Big Bad Wolf: Who's the toughest CC unit?
« Reply #48 on: May 6, 2006, 10:41:16 PM »
I cited the work giving GW credit and stating where it came from. As far as I know this is permitted if its required to "clear up an issue", its not like I quoted the entire wych entry, just the "options" section
If I'm incorrect here I'll remove it
Well check my post and yours.MTWC removed are your part of that post and the quote from mine.
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Offline -Makenshi-

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Re: The Big Bad Wolf: Who's the toughest CC unit?
« Reply #49 on: May 6, 2006, 10:42:29 PM »
I cited the work giving GW credit and stating where it came from. As far as I know this is permitted if its required to "clear up an issue", its not like I quoted the entire wych entry, just the "options" section
If I'm incorrect here I'll remove it

I've removed it for you, there was no need to quote any of it, let alone the whole options section, you could have just said 'check again' or at most quoted the part about Wych Weapons only.

I'm suprised no one has mentioned a Chaos Lord with a retinue of Aspiring Champions. The insane amount of mutations/gifts/skills you can insert into this unit just makes it the best all-around CC unit. Of course, point-wise, wyches win out. They're a very nice unit. But with no points restrictions (and with only a single unit in an army) the Aspiring Champion unit wins out 9/10 of the times.

Yes, but if we ignore points though then no one could beat the Seer Council's limitless squad size ::).

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Offline Kritik

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Re: The Big Bad Wolf: Who's the toughest CC unit?
« Reply #50 on: May 6, 2006, 10:48:01 PM »
Also, we will have our HQ and Special Characters LATER!

its no problem man, no harm done, we all have times when our brain just decides to not function properly.

Those times for me = every single time :D

And maybe I was a bit harsh in my first sentence, we friends?

hm... Let me think...


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fine, we're cool. No harm done with my occasional lapses.
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Offline Shade, Bankai King

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Re: The Big Bad Wolf: Who's the toughest CC unit?
« Reply #51 on: May 6, 2006, 10:51:09 PM »
I can see it now the 40 man chosen unit vs the 10 million strong seer council.The amount of mind war is unthinkable and all of those witch blades.But of course i think that that match wuld end in a forfiet or a draw as it would take for ever to move those models.Not to mention carrying it and deploying it.
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Offline Scytale

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Re: The Big Bad Wolf: Who's the toughest CC unit?
« Reply #52 on: May 6, 2006, 11:56:46 PM »
Wyches are deadly especially comming out of a webway portal.

Death Company are pretty good especially backed up by an uber Chaplan, they are one of the few units that have lasted a whole turn in CC against my Seer Council. They count as a HQ choice though.

I've had a lot of success with Howling Banshees.

For HQ choices a tooled up Archon or Wych Archite is pretty hard to beat.

Offline Kyle

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Re: The Big Bad Wolf: Who's the toughest CC unit?
« Reply #53 on: May 7, 2006, 12:22:13 AM »
For my two cents toughest depends on what role cc plays in your army, In one of my armies (vanilla eldar) wraithlords fill the cc roll perfectly, they arent there to mash enemie sqauds into a pulp in one turn they're there to tie up enemy formations, let the guns have a go without being slaughtered, so in this case I'd give it to my pair of wraithlords as the most useful.

Offline Tarrin the Space Marine

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Re: The Big Bad Wolf: Who's the toughest CC unit?
« Reply #54 on: May 7, 2006, 07:07:08 AM »
good ole fashion 30 man ork mob, sluggas and choppas, nob with claw, 3 burnas. a potential 104 attacks on charge at I4, 9 power weapon attacks on i4, and 5 powa claw attacks.
they ain't running, unless you kill 19 t4 models and they will dish out enough crunch a wych unit even after the wyches have been. still able to take a wriathlord or two due to hidden claw. add 3 burnas in there and you are well away.

and so mercifully cheap and troops, and green. did i mention GREEN!!
« Last Edit: May 7, 2006, 07:10:21 AM by tarrin »
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Offline Wurzelmaniac

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Re: The Big Bad Wolf: Who's the toughest CC unit?
« Reply #55 on: May 7, 2006, 10:59:51 AM »
I think Orks come in second to Wyches. Wyches provide as much bang for your buck as any unit out there, especially with Combat Drugs.

Orks just lack a little for survivability IMO. Bolters and Heavy Bolters seem to just chew through them insanely quickly and they don't get any boost in CC like Wyches do.
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Offline Jehoel

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Re: The Big Bad Wolf: Who's the toughest CC unit?
« Reply #56 on: May 7, 2006, 11:25:35 AM »
I am surprised no one has mentioned the Arcoflaggelants from the Whichhunter force yet. Its true they are hard to control, quite expensive and selfdestructive but with 6 guys on the charge thats a potential 40+ powerweapon attacks with the strength to back it up...


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Offline Scytale

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Re: The Big Bad Wolf: Who's the toughest CC unit?
« Reply #57 on: May 7, 2006, 11:30:04 AM »
Well I've never fought orks with my d.e army but chances are it would be similar too what happens when I charge a large mob of gaunts. I'd be the one charging due to the massive speed advantage, the orks would likely be softened up by shooting (same can't be said for wyches straight out of the WWP) and due to Eldar's cheesy intiative I'll strike first and probably wipe out enough models so you don't get to attack me back (only models within two inches of an engaged model can attack).  Ork leadership being what it is will most likely run off and get taken as slaves netting me those extra few victory points. If you do get to surrive and get to strike back all those powerweapons and fists will be prety uselss thanks to the halved weapon skill and no bonus for having a 2nd weapon you'd get from the wych weapons and the wyches invulnerable save. So at worst I'd be facing one attack from each  of the standard ork needing a 5+ to hit and still be getting a 4+ save

And that is why wyches rock. Only things that have held up my wych squad for more then a turn so far is a massive seer council with rerolled invulnerable saves (fortune) or a massive death company with a psycho chaplan since they could reroll misses, which negates the ws penalty to some extent and unbelievably cheesy armor ( 3+ and then the 4+ feel no pain) Only thing that was hurting them was the succubus with the always handy agonizer.

I've never really liked taking massive squads of low Initiative ( well i4 isn't low unless you're facing Eldar :) ) cc troops, since often the back ranks won't get to attack in close combat (you try getting all 30 orks within two inches of a 5-10 man squad) its a waste of points if the model flees before it can attack. So realistically speaking you're only really looking at getting maybe 60 attacks max (~20 models) on the charge. It's just impossible to fit that many models into the combat especilly if you spread you're squads out to counter blast marker and template weapons. If you're striking second its even harder to get many attacks as only a model within two inches of a engaged model will get to attack if your opponent kills say 5 models then you're probaly down to ~10 models who get to attack back. Then again oks toughness will help them out a bit but i don't think its too unreasonable to expect at least a couple of casualties.

 Only advantage too taking a lage squad is it gives you some protection against shooting, though its easier to hide a small squad out of site then it is a large squad.  Of course I'm not an ork player but I'd probably stick with squads of between 15 to 20. Probably better off taking two squads of 20 if you can afford it then one squad of 30.

Offline Kritik

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Re: The Big Bad Wolf: Who's the toughest CC unit?
« Reply #58 on: May 7, 2006, 11:37:25 AM »
The orks have a leadership by number. So it's really hard to make them fall back until the number dwindles down to less than 12.

What I do against the orks is to soften them up by shooting. Then As the orks come at me with its warboss and fancy weapons in front and 20 some normal orks in the back, I drop my raiders in the back and now the warboss and special dudes can't do anything as I start chopping up 'em boys in the back.
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Offline Felix Faustus

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Re: The Big Bad Wolf: Who's the toughest CC unit?
« Reply #59 on: May 7, 2006, 11:42:08 AM »
Space wolves 13th company are pretty hard, so are assualt terminators, but Ogryns all the way. I play guard and I have a squad of ten and I haven't met anything that they don't smoosh in combat!
whoever said banshees could beat them is so so wrong, for the same amount of points Ogryns would anhilate bansees every time! Has no-one even looked at thier rules! They are incredible!
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