Topic: 1750 warhost list comp (PartNinja)

[Partninja]

Currently on a train heading back to NJ and don't have my codex with me, but the points and composition should be correct.

Wanted to run a storm host that most people don't use. Also wanted to have a good psychic presence. I have quite a bit of AI, AT, and decent enough AA (Walkers, 3x Serpent Shields). I refuse to skimp on the required heavy weapon batteries and Vypers, so they are both at the models per unit. Vypers have lances to make sure I have enough AT saturation. Farseer will usually roll for Telepathy, and Wraithfighter is obviously going for psychic shriek.

Farseer - Jetbike (115)

Autarch - Jetbike, Banshee Mask, Laser Lance, Fusion Gun (110)

5x Warlocks - Jetbikes (250)

8x Storm Guardians w/ Warlock- 2x Flamer, 2x Power Sword (107)
-Wave Serpent - Bright Lances (115)

8x Storm Guardians w/ Warlock- 2x Flamer, 2x Power Sword (107)
-Wave Serpent - Bright Lances (115)

8x Storm Guardians w/ Warlock- 2x Flamer, 2x Power Sword (107)
-Wave Serpent - Bright Lances (115)

3x Vyper - Bright Lances (150)

3x War Walkers - Scatter Lasers (180)

3x Shadow Weavers (90)

Hemlock Wraithfighter (185)

[volatilegaz]

I'm AFB so not sure of the points difference, but could you make the jetbike unit into a proper seer council? And if you can, a few singing spears wouldn't hurt
Also you may as well give your stormies power swords, since they are free.
And personally I'd give 2 of the units fusions instead of flamers, and switch out the BLs on your Vypers for one of the 3 S6 options

[Partninja]

I'm AFB so not sure of the points difference, but could you make the jetbike unit into a proper seer council? And if you can, a few singing spears wouldn't hurt
Also you may as well give your stormies power swords, since they are free.
And personally I'd give 2 of the units fusions instead of flamers, and switch out the BLs on your Vypers for one of the 3 S6 options

Can't make it a seer council due to the warhost restrictions. That Farseer is part of the requirements of the warhost.

I much prefer the flamers on the Guardians due to the amount of lances I have. Shouldn't need them by the time the Guardians get out. Their job is push objectives, not hunt tanks.

Scatter lasers or double shurican cannons is a viable option on the Vypers, However I wanted more AT saturation so I went with the triple lances.

I'll have to double check the codex, I didn't think storm guardians got ALL of the upgrades free.

EDIT: Whoops, I didnt even make the flamers free. I'll have to adjust when I get home today.

DOUBLE EDIT: Oddly enough, my points still work out because I priced the warlocks incorrect anyway.

[Lyonic]

I would take farseer off bike and stick him with 3 dcannons with a warlock and move forward or secure your centre rear of table as an area of denial weapon with a 2 plus cover. Also i would get rid of the conclave cuz u dnt need it really. Doesent do much. Then u can get a wraithknight woootttt!!

[Partninja]

I would take farseer off bike and stick him with 3 dcannons with a warlock and move forward or secure your centre rear of table as an area of denial weapon with a 2 plus cover. Also i would get rid of the conclave cuz u dnt need it really. Doesent do much. Then u can get a wraithknight woootttt!!

5x Warlocks, Farseer, and Autarch make quite a hammer unit. I use this setup often. It also goes with my psyker theme.

I prefer the Weavers for the range. They can sit back out of most danger and just hold an objective while harassing back-line units from afar. 

[Lyonic]

A hammer unit with no AP? Eldar Strength?
 If u wana keep a psychic theme why not stick in Eldard? The most powerful psycher around go in with a force weapon at MEQ.

Also i think people make the mistake that a warlock conclave is not the same as a seer council.

[Partninja]

A hammer unit with no AP? Eldar Strength?
 If u wana keep a psychic theme why not stick in Eldard? The most powerful psycher around go in with a force weapon at MEQ.

Also i think people make the mistake that a warlock conclave is not the same as a seer council.

Eldar strength doesn't matter when their weapons have flesh bane. Augmented by Warlock/Farseer powers, and the lance from the Autarch they'll be just fine. It's not so much the damage out put, but their durability and speed.

I'm very well aware of the difference between the conclave, and the council formation. I don't have the points for the two extra Farseers otherwise I would have done that way.

Eldrad wouldn't be useful as he wouldn't have a good unit to go with unless I walked the warlocks, which I much prefer the bikes for the mobility.

[Wyddr]

A hammer unit with no AP? Eldar Strength?

 
Don't they all have witchblades?

I've faced this particular seer council in earlier editions a fair bit, and it is pretty effective. With all the recent Eldar improvements, it's probably even better.

[Lyonic]

Hey Wyddr o/ again this is not a seer council. Witches blades have no AP. That means if you 'hammer' into a terminator squad they are gonna all get their saves. IM jst saying Stick Eldrad with some guardians or if u try it, the dcannons.

the way a combat seer coucil works is you get yourself close enough to charge the target in the movement phase. You cast everything u can to buff you up and maledict them. Maybe a few shooty psychic witchfires. The unit then throws all their, usually instant death singing spears into them, with a cheeky fusion shot from the autarch. Your unit then charges in avoiding overwatch with gear and hopefully there are enough buffs and debuffs floating around to let you win ez.


a warlock conclave with no Spears, passing spells on the 4. With -farseer is gonna be way less effective to the point i would say its a point sink that wont ever pay dividends. Co.pared to a wraithknight for the same points.

[Partninja]

Hey Wyddr o/ again this is not a seer council. Witches blades have no AP. That means if you 'hammer' into a terminator squad they are gonna all get their saves. IM jst saying Stick Eldrad with some guardians or if u try it, the dcannons.

the way a combat seer coucil works is you get yourself close enough to charge the target in the movement phase. You cast everything u can to buff you up and maledict them. Maybe a few shooty psychic witchfires. The unit then throws all their, usually instant death singing spears into them, with a cheeky fusion shot from the autarch. Your unit then charges in avoiding overwatch with gear and hopefully there are enough buffs and debuffs floating around to let you win ez.


a warlock conclave with no Spears, passing spells on the 4. With -farseer is gonna be way less effective to the point i would say its a point sink that wont ever pay dividends. Co.pared to a wraithknight for the same points.

Totally disagree with Knight being 100% better, but everyone has their own opinions.Conclaive and Knight have equal pros and cons in my opinion.

I've played with the above unit for MANY years, and it works just fine now, if not better that the previous editions (minus the random powers). A council formation is better, but only because of the better ability to cast powers. With the amount of dice I'll get during the psychic phase, not being a council won't be a problem at all.

I'm also purposely not taking a Knight, so that the list is a bit more fun for my opponent. Also taking a Knight changes the dynamics of this list, and what the unit will contribute to the army as a whole.

[Wyddr]

The Seer Council *formation* is different than a "seer council" (which is the generic name for a bunch of warlocks hanging out with a farseer, and has been such since the beginning of such things).

With the psychic powers you can manifest, this unit can go toe-to-toe with terminators and last for a while. If you get jinx, you can easily win. If you get fortune, you'll take a damned long time going down (such is my experience, anyway--my opponents seem to have the devil's own luck with re-rolled invuls).

Anyway, this is a good unit. It works against most opponents, it doesn't cost an awful lot, its fast--there is very little not to like. Yes, it isn't that great against 2+ saves. I don't think that's such a huge deal, is all. 

[Lyonic]

Don't get me wrong I really dig the Seer Council Formation. I think when you do it, you need to do it property. In my view that means getting all the equipment needed to make sure you don't suffer things like, overwatch, running away from combat etc.

As for the Wraithknight being better than 5 warlocks... well. I really don't think that's correct because:

Wraithknight has hammer of wrath (nice against armour or a cheeky instant death)
he has D-weapon attacks with 1 mastercrafted.
he has 1-3 stomps ( I recently played a game where I took out 800 points in stomps rolling double 6's)
he is toughness high so, immune to bolter fire and a lot of melee attacks.
He causes fear, can blind people and is just.. like so much better than what you could ever do with 5 psychic dice and access to runes of battle XD

Just to clarify I am not saying a wraithknight is better than a seer council, im saying its better than 5 warlocks.

Even then, if you have a fully decked out Seer council, it should cost you around 800 ish points. You can take 2 and 2/3 wraithknights for that and I would rather have 3 wraithknights XD but again I like to play competitively so in all honestly whatever you think and want to play is the right choice. It's all about fun at the end of the day

[Partninja]

It's not just 5 warlocks. I also have plenty of other AT. This won't be the role of they're for anyway.

[Fenris]

I think overall the list looks good, I would consider some fine tuning though.

Farseer: Spirit stone of anath'lan is awesome especially when on a skyrunner, as you will still keep your "power armour" -esque save from the bike.

Autarch: Why the fusion gun? Is it really that often you need to explode vehicles? wouldn't a haywire grenade be sufficient, or in the case of infantry firing the lance? You already have 2 ranged weapons and 2 types of grenades to throw. I'd save those points for something else.

Warlocks: Spears are good now, they don't have the 2H drawback anymore. Any spare points I'd put here, for example I'd rather have 2 spears than the autarchs fusion gun.

I'd probably keep the BL's on the serpents, however the vypers could take EML's to increase your AA capabilities, sure the war walkers can be guided, but it's not as accurate as real AA missiles.
This would cost you a couple of points but by dropping 1 warlock from the conclave you could afford this and some singing spears for the remaining warlocks. (Conclave would still be ML2.)

It has been suggested and I support that taking one unit of stormies with 2x fusion guns and give their warlock a spear would be favorable, however not crucial in any way.

[Partninja]

Autarch has a fusion gun, because in my group dual profile weapons are a single profile per turn, not both. Also, against most targets I have better success with that fusion gun than the Lance or 2x spears.

[Lyonic]

Hey dude, just checked the rules and you cant put in models that are not from the host. So the autarch and flyer are out im afraid

[Partninja]

Page 95- Wraithfighter is part of wraith-constructs auxiliary and Autarch is part of heroes of the craftworlds auxiliary. Totally legal.

[Lyonic]

No, i mean for the competition it says only warhost. This isn't including aux units.

[Partninja]

And to have a warhost, you MUST include one of the Auxiliary choices. The Guardian host portion is only part of the warhost structure.