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Author Topic: 1,500pnts of spyder-y DOOM!!!???  (Read 1603 times)

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Offline Blindmage

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1,500pnts of spyder-y DOOM!!!???
« on: September 30, 2010, 10:03:02 PM »
hi all!

I'm back with a nother crazy list, based on my love of scarabs, spyders, and the whole awakening tomb fluff.

hq: 280
2 x lord with orb

troops: 360
10 x warriors
10 x warroirs

fast attack: 480
10x scarabs w/ d-fields
10x scarabs w/ d-fields
10x scarabs w/ d-fields

heavy support: 495
3x tomb spyders
3x tomb spyders
3x tomb spyders

total: 1495
phase out: 5

Basically sick the scarabs forward to hit armour and negate long rage fire, mabey tie up a squad, but really just hit armour. send 5 spyders up front as shock absorbers, each making a scarab right away. keep 2 spyders with each warrior squad for flanking and rear guard protection. march the whole thing forward and not die.

Offline Foxfire

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Re: 1,500pnts of spyder-y DOOM!!!???
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2010, 10:46:58 PM »
The major problem I see with this list is that your Warriors will die if you march them.  You'd be better off keeping them in reserves and/or hiding them out of line of sight for the duration of the game.  You just don't have enough Necrons on the board to suffer casualties without getting phased out.  Also, with so few Necrons, a second Lord with Resurrection Orb is more or less superfluous. 

I'd suggest (if you want to keep the Scarabs/Tomb Spyder dynamic and have the list work mostly like it does now), dropping both Lords and a D-field Scarab, and taking the Deceiver.  Then you'll have something horrifying in CC which will either get a free ride up-field (because your opponent is firing at the Scarabs and Tomb Spyders), or which absorbs enough firepower to give everything else some time to get up there.  I really see this list as offering way too many nasties for most armies to put down prior to melee, and a C'tan would really give you the extra toughness/punch to make it hurt once you get there.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2010, 10:49:45 PM by Foxfire »

Offline camaraden

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Re: 1,500pnts of spyder-y DOOM!!!???
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2010, 11:07:53 PM »
i agree with foxfire. you need some hard punch otherwise big armor will just smash in and phase you out.

Offline Blindmage

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Re: 1,500pnts of spyder-y DOOM!!!???
« Reply #3 on: October 1, 2010, 02:09:21 AM »
the reasoning behind the 2 lords is to allow teh squads to separate and possibly each take a flank with spyders in the middle. at least giving me the option of separating them, as each squad is safe and selfcontained with a orb per for the resilance and security from CC. if something is that close it'll have to get through the spyders, or possibly a scarab sheild. hmm, or a spyder with a shield....

honestly i'd love to make this a basis for larger lists by adding warriors, i have 60, so this could go all the way to around 2,300pnts with all the warriors and maxed lords. eventually i'll have enough for the full 120 warriors, mad a few immortals. as it stands i'm running proxies for 5 spyders as i save and get one a month.
« Last Edit: October 1, 2010, 02:12:50 AM by Blindmage »

Offline Semaj_14

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Re: 1,500pnts of spyder-y DOOM!!!???
« Reply #4 on: October 1, 2010, 02:47:31 AM »
the only necron influence in the area is my room mate and he never dosent take the monolith. He has 3 (only bought one the lucky guy) monoliths and lemme tell ya 1 monolith is annoying. 2 is bad and 3 is nuts, its one hard fight if you play right.
So as my room mate would say. "Needs more monolith"
"Through the Fires of battle Unto the Anvil of war!"

"When In doubt Just add More Melta!"

Offline NecronCell2131

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Re: 1,500pnts of spyder-y DOOM!!!???
« Reply #5 on: October 1, 2010, 03:16:49 AM »
the only necron influence in the area is my room mate and he never dosent take the monolith. He has 3 (only bought one the lucky guy) monoliths and lemme tell ya 1 monolith is annoying. 2 is bad and 3 is nuts, its one hard fight if you play right.
So as my room mate would say. "Needs more monolith"

 I was looking at this and wondering where you were stealing my life from! But alas my roommate would never frequent this forum despite owning both fantasy and 40k

 I second the list needing monoliths and frankly i always have at least 1 since the lowest amount of points i play is 1k (i have 1 in there) and for my 1500 it has 3 or 2 depending if i run the ctan.

 Spyders are a cool unit but unfortunately they aren't very good in cc, they don't have grenades, low I and WS means they will probably die before attack a squad, they have the potential to do damage but rarely succeed.

For the points i can almost guarantee my monolith is going to make back its points in damage, board denial, tricksy movement of squads and allowing my warriors more rolls and lasting longer.

 If you want big bad cc go for a C'tan he at least is immune to small arms and has an Invulnerable.
My Tesseract Labyrinth Collection:
 1xDreadknight
 Enemies Doored by Monolith:
 1xBlack templars dreadnought,1xChaos lord,1xEmperors champion,1xDante,1xBelial,4xMelta guns that failed to kill it,1xWolf lord,1xStraken

Offline Rems

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Re: 1,500pnts of spyder-y DOOM!!!???
« Reply #6 on: October 1, 2010, 03:50:58 AM »
I disagree that monoliths are an auto take or always nessacary.

Many necron lists can do perfectly well without- destroyer wing, fear, cc list.

That being said they can add a lot to an army, however i think it is better to base an army around a monolith(s) rather than throwing one in for the sake of it.

Now Blind mage, i also agree that 2 rez orb lords are suplerflous. You dont wont to be seperating that kind of force. A destroyer lord ot c'tan would provide some good cc and open up your options tactically speaking. Finding room for some wriaths could aslo help this list probably by dropping 3 of the spiders. 

Offline NecronCell2131

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Re: 1,500pnts of spyder-y DOOM!!!???
« Reply #7 on: October 1, 2010, 05:01:35 AM »
 I never said it was an auto take though i did lean towards its. Its not for everyone and i know some people cant use it to its full potential or have it die first turn due to bad rolls. Just like not all Marine lists need termies or a landraider not all lists need a monolith it depends on your opponents and what you want from the army.

 I find your list is currently to specialized, Scarabs will die very quickly and should die to almost any unit you throw them at. The tomb spyders will have to do the bulk of the work for the army and i feel they will disappoint you.

 Wraiths will help by providing a fast cc unit to mix in with the scarabs that will whittle units down before they can strike at your scarabs.

 I find the 1 monolith to be fine in this list as it will divert some heavy fire from the scarabs and provide the punch for higher armor.
My Tesseract Labyrinth Collection:
 1xDreadknight
 Enemies Doored by Monolith:
 1xBlack templars dreadnought,1xChaos lord,1xEmperors champion,1xDante,1xBelial,4xMelta guns that failed to kill it,1xWolf lord,1xStraken

Offline Foxfire

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Re: 1,500pnts of spyder-y DOOM!!!???
« Reply #8 on: October 1, 2010, 09:05:23 AM »
I would not take the Monolith in this list simply because--short of grabbing an objective--it wouldn't really do anything.  If you throw the twenty Warriors into the open, you'll phase against most opponents (after all, if they can knock them out at range there's nothing you can do, and a CC army has only to utilize a bit of movement to go around those Spyders and into it with your Warriors--transports would make running interception with your Scarabs difficult).  They could sacrifice tons of men and resources in each combat because they know they'll win the game regardless. 

In my opinion, you simply don't have enough Warriors to add them into your strategy, and given that, your second Lord is pointless.  An extra 140 points to give them Res Orb will not change the problem: you don't have enough.  It's a cool idea to go up the flanks and have the Lord and Spyders assisting phase out and all that, and it won't be as big an issue for some armies vs. others (Tau have trouble dropping Warrior units in my experience, for example, whereas IG could clean this list off the field in two or three turns without even an abundance of luck), but in general those Warriors are your codex-given weakness, your Achilles Heel if you will, and because you have treated them as such (investing so little in them), you need to protect them, not throw them into the fray.  This is why I suggested the C'tan: it might pay to take one Lord to camp in the backfield with the Warriors in case of an onslaught of indirect fire, or to carry them forward if you have a Deepstriking enemy and need to be protected by the Spyders, but using them aggressively, especially against ranged adversaries, seems like a good way to phase out early.

As for Spyders, I have to concur Necroncell that I have not had too much luck with them, but I know some people who have, and I do see some holes in your logic.  First of all: what do grenades matter?  The things are initiative 2, even going at initiative order (I believe that's how frags work now?) they're still going last.  As for probably dying before attacking a squad, the real asset of the Spyder is not the WS or the I (which are obviously their lowpoints), it's their S and T.  You say they'll die before doing damage, and there are opponents for whom that's true (I don't take them much because my main adversary is Tyranids, and with their insane new book everything is either S 6 or small and wounds on 4's anyway, making Spyders and often C'tan a waste of time), but a Marine squad shouldn't be dishing out high strength until I1 attacks roll around (ie Powerfist) and even then, since you've thrown three Spyders into the mix, they should theoretically mess that squad up (about 5 dead Marines while the unit is forced to divide its attacks which wound on 6 in every direction and they might kill one Spyder via the Power Fist, follow up with 2 or 3 dead Marines the turn after). 

Bear in mind, I'm not in disagreement with you, really: I don't field Tomb Spyders much, but I consider that a function of my opponents more than anything, who are generally fast, ridiculous in CC or so weak in combat that the Spyder isn't really warranted.  But I have been surprised before.  The same with Wraiths, I think a big part of seeing their potential is taking a lot of them.  When it comes to the Wraiths, I think this is a mistake (after all, fluff-wise they aren't really supposed to be shock troops), but in general when you have so many that its guaranteed some will survive to dish out the hurt, units become more feasible.  Our friend here has taken 9, which tells me not only that he's going to see what these guys can do, but also that he's sold on the idea of a Spyder list, so the advice of "Don't take Spyders" is sort of a waste here: it seems to be the theme we're dealing with, so unless Blindmage says he's not really sold on it and that was just a list to spark discussion, I figure we should factor that in.

That said, Gutstikk and Moc, the two biggest advocates for Spyder lists that I know, haven't showed up.  Figure they'll have better advice than I (just speaking as someone who's never taken more than three).
« Last Edit: October 1, 2010, 09:15:01 AM by Foxfire »

Offline Blindmage

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Re: 1,500pnts of spyder-y DOOM!!!???
« Reply #9 on: October 1, 2010, 02:12:13 PM »
well, i'm mostly running this off modles i have or am in the process of getting. my current collection is:

2 destroyer lords
1 walking lord
1 converted walking lord
5 immortals
60 warriors
25 scarabs
1 destroyer
3 spyders

I've been playing warrior spam lists as i that's all i cound do. I wasn't liking the playstyle, I love seeing the ranks of warriors lumbering forward whitc scarabs rushing up ato disable armour, or staying close for a CC buffer. but i just coulnd;t win games. I tried veiling immortals, warriors, anything i could with what i had and aside from our tau player, i couldn't beat anyone.

around here our biggest players are Nids, tau, orks, deamons, then 1 guy with marines (flavour of the month type, even though he's been playing longest) and a small guard force.

a freind gave the the spyders when he heard i was saving for them. I've always been in love with the iamgery and fluff behind a freshly awakened tomb. The hordes of scarbas, ranks of warroirs and swarms of spyders defending and repairing the newy awakened tomb. and i wanted my list to reflect that.

how's this for a change:?

hq:140
lord w/ orb

troops: 540
10x warriors
10x warriors
10x warriors

fast attack 480
3x 10 scarabs w/ feilds

heavy: 330
3x spyders
3x spyders

total: 1490
phase out: 7

Offline Gutstikk

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Re: 1,500pnts of spyder-y DOOM!!!???
« Reply #10 on: October 1, 2010, 06:55:53 PM »
The first list is one I've often dreamed of feeling, but guilt keeps me at 6 spyders max.

The real problem with the first list is its spammy nature. You don't have to rely solely on spyders for combat prowess - you can, but you run into problems sometimes because essentially it's all the same unit across the whole army. Where you'll suffer is when encountering things that kill spyders well in an army where such things are a majority. Then you're playing paper rock scissors and only allowed to throw rock every round. The opponent could roll up a list like that without much difficulty.

I agree with Foxfire that a res orb is probably unnecessary given the quantity of necrons you're fielding and how you're using them. Myself, I probably would only include resorbs in 3 types of lists. The first is tons of warriors and monoliths, because that sort of army really depends on things not dying since it's so bad at doing anything else. The second is a mixed phalanx where you've got a bunch of immortals, warriors, spyders and possibly some other Necron types. This sort of army tends to bunch up, and has enough Necrons that a single resorb will get a lot of mileage keeping the resilient parts alive while the melee vanguard does its work breaking enemy assault units before they connect to your core. The third type of list is one that had loads of flayed ones and wraiths, mostly because the flayed ones really, really need a resorb around if they're a large part of your strategy.

All that being said, your first list is definitely playable and I also don't mind the two lords over a C'tan. Careful use of spyders will let you break enemy threats up so they reach you in a manageable state.

The second list I feel isn't going to perform as well as the first. It actually has less protection for its warriors than the first list and trades the 3rd spyder group, which can be strong against a wide variety of targets, for a warrior block which will not be very strong against as wide a variety of targets. In list 2, you could drastically reduce the quantity of scarabs you're fielding and take that third warrior team back out, permitting you to add Immortals, Pariahs,  Flayed Ones. If you add Flayed Ones though, consider squeezing in a 2nd lord again - Flayed Ones really appreciate a power weapon in their ranks! Immortals put some strong firepower on the table and fare better in assaults vs regular opponents [not vs dedicated assault squads] than warriors do, and Pariahs bring all sorts of tactical options to the table.

 


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