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Author Topic: 1 DH list and a ton of questions for DH/WH  (Read 758 times)

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Offline MurderHoard

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1 DH list and a ton of questions for DH/WH
« on: July 10, 2005, 05:24:57 PM »
I borrowed a DH codex to make the below but I'm a newbie DH force commander so help me out if I could make it better:

Unnamed1500 Pts - Daemonhunters Army

1 Ordo Malleus Inquisitor Lord (HQ) @ 126 Pts
Storm Bolter

1 Acolyte @ [8] Pts
Laspistol ; CCW ; Close Combat Weapon

2 Hierophant @ [16] Pts
Laspistol & CC Weapon

1 Mystic @ [6] Pts
Laspistol & CC Weapon

1 Sage @ [10] Pts
Laspistol & CC Weapon

1 Warrior @ [25] Pts
Heavy Bolter Servitor (x1)

1 Familiar @ [6] Pts

1 Grey Knight Grand Master (HQ) @ 145 Pts
Nemesis Force Halberd; Storm Bolter
#Terminator Armour

3 Grey Knight Terminators (Elites) @ 224 Pts
Nemesis & Psycannon (x1); Nemesis & Storm Bolter (x2)

1 Grey Knight Brother-Captain @ [61] Pts
Nemesis Force Halberd; Storm Bolter
#Terminator Armour

1 Vindicare Assassin (Elites) @ 110 Pts
Vindicare Temple; Exitus Rifle; Exitus Pistol; Spy Mask; Stealth Suit

1 Ordo Malleus Inquisitor (Elites) @ 109 Pts

1 Acolyte @ [8] Pts
Laspistol ; CCW ; Close Combat Weapon

3 Warrior @ [75] Pts
Heavy Bolter Servitor (x3)

1 Familiar @ [6] Pts

5 Grey Knights (Troops) @ 200 Pts
Psycannon (x1); Nemesis & Storm Bolter

1 Grey Knight Justicar @ [50] Pts
Nemesis & Storm Bolter

5 Grey Knights (Troops) @ 195 Pts
Incinerator (x2); Nemesis & Storm Bolter

1 Grey Knight Justicar @ [50] Pts
Nemesis & Storm Bolter

1 Grey Knight Dreadnought (Heavy Support) @ 130 Pts
CC Weapon;
Storm Bolter; Twin Lascannon

1 Grey Knight Land Raider 'Crusader' (Heavy Support) @ 255 Pts
2 'Hurricane' Bolters; Linked Assault Cannon; Multi-Melta
#Extra Armour
#Frag Launchers
#Power of the Machine Spirit

Models in Army: 34


Total Army Cost: 1494


If you suggest changes/replacements please be aware of the list below since those are the only models available to me at the moment:

1 GK Land Raider Crusader
1 GK Dreadnaught
2 Assassins (1 Vindicare Assassin, 1 Callidus Assassin)
15 Henchman (1 Inquisitorial Henchmen blister, 1 Acolyte And Cherubim blister, the rest are Imperial Servitors)
4 GK Terminators (1 Grey Knight Terminator with Psycannon, 1 Grey Knight Terminator with Incinerator, 1 Grey Knight Terminator)
2 squads of 6 Grey Knights (1 with 2 incinerator, 1 with 1 psycannon)
1 Inquisitor Lord
1 Brother Captain stern (model only used as HQ not as special character)
1 Cortez with Retinue set (model only used as HQ not as special character)

As stated above I used the special character models as normal ones since that way I don't have to ask permission from opponents to use 'em and besides I'm still undecided on which to use since I can only take one as both have a "one per army" item and really can't tell which is the better of the two.

Also I wanted to ask if there are options for stuff available to the army but that are not in the DH codex like being able to upgrade the dread to "venerable" (what ever that is lol) like I saw in a thread here just now for another army.

Also in the codex they have a unit called "Inquisitorial Stormtroopers" and I was wondering if these were new models/sculpt made for the DH when the codex came out or if they were already out and are just normal IG troops/models but with some reworked stats, rules or something?

For making retinues how can you tell how to classify a model as this or that? I know that each entry has a little descriptor for models but for me that is of little help since some could easily be classified as at least 3 of those choices and some model names/type descriptors I don't know from my left hand, aside from the Cherubim/Servo-skull/Imperial Guard Vet/combat-gun-servitor which are pretty obvious the rest I'm unsure of, any help hopefully with pictures/examples to figure what models can be classified as what?

Also recently I've started to doubt my choice of assassin, is the Callidus better, is one of the others best? I ask since I heard that the Callidus could be easily killed so I figured a long range shooty one would be better("Turbo-Penetrator" sounds so dirty-nasty-wrong lol), am I wrong?

What do they mean by "terrain piece" for orbital strikes? Do they mean a plot of "land" or an actual piece of modeled table top terrain, cuz that last one kinda don't make sense to me since most people hide behind/use terrain for cover but do not really enter said terrain, anyone care to clarify?

Are the backpacks that come with all DH grey knights supposed to be plastic since all of mine are (note: I bought the army second hand and it came already built/partly painted)?

Again another question, lol. Does the DH dread have any special bits or differences to tell you it's from a DH army? I ask since I have one and it came already built but since I never used an Imperial army before I'm not used to their looks and can't "see" differences yet (besides the point blank differences in weapon arms of course), they all look the same to me, lol. Any help with what to look for to tell them apart?

In the DH codex "Inquisitorial Stormtroopers" are available as a troops choice but when I checked the GW online store all I found in the DH section was IG Cadian Kasrkin sets is this them and you just proxy the normal IG guys to represent them since they really don't have their own models?

In an unrelated note, are there army lists in the Eye of Terror codex and if so what are they?

Okay, I recently bought a Forgeworld Exorcist kit but have yet to recieve it and I was wondering if anyone out there has all the Imperial Armour books with the rules since I would like some one to compare the ones from the old update (which I have along with the 2 original Imperial Armour codex style books) to the new 2004 update or the big coffe table books (which ever has the rules) since FW likes to change the points/rules for it's stuff without telling anyone and it's online rules download section only has experimental rules so since I'd rather not be playing with old invalid rules/inaccurate points values I would like a comparison made between the two done for me as I myself can't since I'm without the other newer books.

Of course this could all be pointless if they included it's rules in the Witch Hunters codex (which I should have coming in soon) if so please tell me.

Also what's the difference between the FW Immolator and the GW one? Is it the same situation with what hapened with the Eldar Wave Serpent? Or what? Please be as detailed as possible with the differences (if any) since I'm a completest and like to at least have one of every model/scuplt for whatever army I have and don't want to needlessly waste money if they are one and the same kits.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------Below is a copy of an old post related to the above that I barely got any replies for on the official GW forums, man it's been slow on there for the last couple days lol.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Can this be made into an army? Also, please help me find info on unknown models.

Lot #1

Sisters of battle

2 older style Seraphim boxes (1 still in shrink wrap, 1 complete but with no
outer box)

1 Old style (6 model) Sisters of battle box (still in shrink wrap)

1 Battle sisters blister (3 complete models)

1 Battle sister icon bearer blister

2 Battle sister with heavy bolter blisters

3 Battle Sisters seraphim blisters (2 twin bolt pistol/1 twin flamer)

1 Imperial missionaries blister (plasma gun/reliquary on stick model)

Witch hunters

1 Witch hunter inquisitor blister (female with crossbow/power sword)

Daemon hunters

1 brother captain stern (complete but not in blister)

Lot #2

Battle Sisters with bolters - qty 5

Battle Sisters with flamers - qty 3

Battle Sisters with storm bolters - qty 3

Sister Superiors - 1 with power sword, 2 with power mace[old style]

Sister of battle standard bearer - (did not see on website, will throw in
for free)[old style]

Throne of Judgement box - all items in box unassmbled like new, except I
opened it.

Battle sister with multi melta - qty 2

Battle sister with heavy flamer

Imperial Servitors - for use in inquisitor retinue. qty 2 blister packs,
which is 4 servitors (2 gun and 2 combat)[old style]

Saint Celestine special character - still in blister

Penitent Engine - still in box, all unassembled like new, but opened

Lot #3

1 Land Raider Crusader (Daemonhunters)
1 Dreadnaught (Daemonhunters)
2 assassins (Daemonhunters)[1 Vindicare, 1 Callidus]
1 squad af 12 Witch Hunters[1 superior, 1 flamer, 1 storm bolter, 1 heavy flamer, 1 heavy bolter)
1 Witch Hunter priest
15 Henchman (Daemonhunters)[1 Inquisitorial Henchmen blister, 1 Acolyte And Cherubim blister, the rest are old style Imperial Servitors 3 combat-4 gun]
4 terminators (Daemonhunters)[1 incinerator, 2 psycannon]
2 squads of 6 grey knights (Daemonhunters)[1 psycannon, 2 incinerators]
1 inquisitor lord (Daemonhunters)
1 Brother Captain stern (Daemonhunters)
1 Cortez with 6 henchman(Daemonhunters)
2 codexes daemonhunters and witch hunters

Lot #4

1 Order Hereticus Inquisitor
1 Preacher
1 Servo Skull
1 Imagifier
1 Sister Superiors
5 Seraphim w/1 Superior
1 Culexus Assassin
6 Arco-Flagellants
1 Forgeworld Exorcist

Lot #5

1 Witch Hunter And Retinue box set
1 Sisters Of Battle Seraphim Squad
1 Sisters Repentia And Mistress box set
1 Eversor Assassin
1 Death Cult Assassin blister
18 Witch Hunters[1 superior, 1 flamer, the rest ???-unclear picture-]
3 Imperial Guard Storm Troopers blisters
1 Imperial Guard Storm Troopers with Assault Weapons[1 flamer, 1 plasma]
1 Imperial Servitors blister[old style]

Ok, I got these from trades/buys and was wondering if what I have already is enough for an army and if so what point range would it be? I ask since I don't have the Witch Hunters codex yet but will get it soon so don't post rules or detailed point breakdowns since I don't want trouble and that's not what I'm asking for just a general/base army point range and if for now this meets the required minimum for a FOC.

I'm not asking for people to make lists for me, just to see if I had enough for a legal army (ie. it meets the squad minimums and so forth) and it's basic total point range (aiming for 1,500 point range army since that's what I and my friends typicaly play also my local official GW brand store prefers this level in in-store play). If you notice I'm getting the WH and DH codex books in the 3rd lot but still don't have them so I was just wondering since after this I'm tapped out and though it won't be fancy I wanted to know if it's enough to pick up and play a game with ASAP.

I just copied the lot lists as posted/told to me by the people I dealt with since I have not yet gotten all of the stuff mentioned in this whole thread yet so I can't confirm the exact stuff in these lots (like among others the "squad af 18 Witch Hunters" in lot #5 so I'll assume the others are just SOB with bolters for now) and the the lot 5 guy is not into the game, he's just selling for a friend away in the army and he's no help on this lol.

Since I'm broke and won't be able to get stuff for a while I asked what could be done with the stuff on hand right now and would really appreciate the help in getting a rough/basic idea of what I can do with this stuff (BTW only got lot #1 for $100 and lot #2 was basicly free since I had 2 Forge World Eldar Scorpions laying about that I got for free [one of each type] so I traded one (the old style type 1) for the lot and I only had to cover shipping for the trade ;) sweet!, lot #3 I got for $133.57, SUPER SWEET!!! and lot #4 for $85 awesome!, lot #5 i got for $117.08 nice!).

Any help for finding an image gallery/catalog for all current and past army/race figs/mini/models so that in the future I can look up models not shown in the US GW online store?[Already know about "SOLegends" but it's not all that helpful in my case]

Also as you can see in lot 3 I got a Land Raider Crusader and was wondering if I could use it in a SoB/WH army or can they only take it as a plain old Land Raider based on the fact that, that is the only version shown in the WH section of the online store.

How about me having enough for a DH army (notice how I'm all about the "Ordo" armies, I've just gotten a serious like-on for them recently lol)

E v e r y b r e a t h y o u t a k e i s a n i n s u l t t o m y h o n o u r .
I t a m a z e s m e t h a t e v e r y t i m e y o u o p e n y o u r m o u t h y o u p r o v e y o u r s e l f m o r e o f a n i d i o t
Y o u a r e a f o o l ! I ' m g o i n g t o c r u s h y o u i n t o d u s t a n d t h r o w y o u i n t o t h e w i n d .


This is my world. You can't leave!...Don't leave...please?

Offline Pixel

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Re: 1 DH list and a ton of questions for DH/WH
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2005, 03:31:13 AM »
OK first off, i'm probably gonna reply to this in 2 parts, or just to the DH part, since I dont know that much about WH.

Anyway, you should divide up your list into the various sections (troops, elites, etc.) to make it both easier to read and tell if your GK squads are acting as fast attack or troop.

But thats fine, i'll start picking apart your list if you want...

Ok first up is the Inquisitor lord squad.  If you really want one, you should pick a job you want the squad to do...Most people go for shooty because he is really vulnerable if you try to get him into CC, mostly because you have to give him a power fist in order to get good results, but his low toughness and poor save usually damage him too much before he can really do anything, even with some acolytes.  So, if you want to make him shooty, you should probably take him, and give him a Psycannon (thats all you can really give him) take 3 gun servitors (2 heavy bolters, 1 plasma cannons) and 2-3 sages.  This will allow you a great 9 shots and 1 small template at 36" from this fairly small squad.  Also the sages will both make the I lord more accurate, and allow rerolls for the plasma cannon in order to avoid those nasty overheats. 
Also add 2-3 Acolytes for return fire, if any, and a mystic or two, so you can take free (!) shots at incoming daemons or deep striking units!  This is a great deal, as most armies have some kind of deep striking unit.  Also, give the I lord an Icon of the Just, if you want, to give him an invuln save against any really heavy return fire, and an Auspex, which allows him a free shot on any Infiltrating units (within 4d6") 
OK so thats a good I lord squad, of course this is just a suggestion, you can make him however you want, but that will get you some great results if you just put him in some cover.

Next would be the Grand master.  I'm not sure if you're planning to attach him to another unit or what, but its not a good idea to have him walk on his own.  Personally I would make the other terminators his retinue, and just treat them all as a squad together.  I would also add another termie to that squad, if possible, but thats just preference, you can do fine with 5.  You need to either Deep Strike this squad, or transport them somehow, if you choose to walk them, be prepared to attract a LOT of heavy fire.

Next, the Vindicare Assassin is a nice choice, depeding on the battle.  If you know your enemy, and he has some tooled up character that costs him 500 points...use this guy to take him down, or at least 3 wounds off of him, fairly quickly.  Or you can use him against a Chaos army, to take out the Icon Bearers, which prevent him from summoning the demons.  But other than that, he's very situational, and you can achieve much better results overall, with another assassin.  Callidus is a nice choice, but many consider her "too good," but its up to you. 

This Inquisitor squad looks like it has a purpose, great.  The only problems i see, is that the Inquisitor doesnt have a weapon listed, and you dont really need the Familiar unless you're planning on fighting in CC, but this looks like a shooty squad.  But, since you already made one shooty Inquisitor, you could take out this squad, and spend the points elsewhere...just an idea.

OK for your two GK squads: I would personally take more Grey Knights, simply because you want them to really last, and I just prefer bigger numbers of them...8+ etc.  You can do 6 GKs, thats fine, but they might run the risk of getting too swamped in CC, especially when you start taking casualties.
Also, if you know who you'll be fighting most, pick your special weapons for that job.  If you're fighting Orks and/or Tyranids a lot, i'd take the incinerators, otherwise drop them.  Personally, GKs dont really need them, I think.  The storm bolters rock as it is, and you'll only be using them 1 turn, before you assault, if the enemy is trying to assault you as well.   Also, by taking the special weapons, you're reducing the ability of that certain GK in CC, by making his Strength back to 4, and losing one attack, so thats just something to think about.  Unless you really need the templates or extra shots, against a horde army, I wouldn't bother, but its personal choice again.

The Dreadnought is fine, just watch as he might take a lot of fire after your LRC.

Ok, for this big guy, the LRC, he's really good against horde armies.  It practically has the firepower of a Tactical squad, and then some, all on its own.  But anyway, if you plan to put your GKs or termies in there, still be careful, and try to use cover to your advantage because land raiders tend to attract all the Heavy Firepower of the enemy possible.  Also, I dont think you can take the Power of the Machine Spirit, as its not in the DH codex. 

___________________ ___________________ ___________________ ____________


Onto your questions...

The Stormtroopers are simply the Karskin models from the Cadian (i believe) Imperial Guard.  You just paint them in whatever colors you want to represent your inquisitor.

Sorry but the whole Venerable thing is only available for SMs.  Unfortunately, Daemonhunters are considered somewhat different from the SMs.   Basically...no you can't take it, sorry.

For the retinue, it doesnt matter all that much, as i've seen a lot of people just convert many models from Warhammer Fantasy, and other things into their Sages/Heirophants, etc.  So you could do that, but heres a picture of the actual retinue: http://us.games-workshop.com/games/40k/daemonhunters/catalog/henchmen.htm
In the top picture...left to right the order is: Combat Servitor, Familiar, Gun Servitor, Sage, Accolyte, Heirophant, Familiar, Mystic, Gun Servitor, Combat Servitor.
If you're going to do my suggestion for your Inq lord squad, you might want to consider converting a few models for yourself for some originality.  You don't want the same 3 models acting for your 3 Accolytes do you?
Hehe, but your choice really.

As I said before, the Vindicare is more situational, but the Callidus just kicks ass all the time.  She can be killed somewhat easily, but only because people tend to freak out when you bring her out, and then she gets the whole enemies' armies' attention.  But, you can assault on the same turn that you bring her out, so this means that you cant be shot by the big guns.  Use her against an HQ squad, or something like that, and she'll more than likely get the job done before she dies.  Just remember, she has 2 wounds and a 4+ invuln save, so she won't get killed SUPER easily, but you still have to watch out.  Also, one of her special rules, "Jump Back" allows you to get out of combat, with some luck, if you really want to, even on the enemies' assault phase.  So if you're really not liking assaulting that paticular squad...use that rule, and try to get into another squad or something.  And whatever you do, dont forget her other special rule.  "A word in your ear" allows you some great strategy even before the game actually begins, which can really save you.  You can use it to move his heavy weapons squad behind that big hill, so they have to re deploy...or that tank he's hiding out in the open, for a good first shot at it.  Either way, its an awesome rule, but easy to forget.

Yes, the Orbital strikes need to be aimed at a piece of terrain, be it a big ol' forest, or a bunker.  Just keep in mind you can direct where you want the template on the terrain, and then it scatters, so it isn't really dependable.

Yeah, the backpacks are just plastic sprues.

Well, you're supposed to convert the dread to make it look different.  Here is an article on that kind of stuff: http://us.games-workshop.com/games/40k/daemonhunters/painting/dread/default.htm

Other than any conversions on the dread, the only differences are really between the weapons, or if it is a SM or Chaos Dreadnought, which look very different. So to answer your question simply...there is only one type of dreadnought for the imperium really.  The only difference is weapons and what you may put on it.

Yeah, the stormtroopers dont have their own models.  But the Karskin models are pretty cool anyway, so its not a complete loss.

I've never looked at the Eye of Terror codex, so i really wouldn't know.

Sorry, I also no absolutely nothing about Forgeworld stuff, so can't answer any of that...

I didn't read all of your old post, mostly skimmed, but by the looks of it, you have a ton of stuff that could all be used.  If you're really trying to just make an army out of what you already have, and don't want to get anything else, I think you could do a Witchhunters army with some Grey Knights Allied to them, which is doable.  Just look here: http://us.games-workshop.com/games/40k/witchhunters/catalog/default.htm
And it looks like you could use all that stuff you have for Battle sister squads, Seraphim squads, and maybe even a dominion squad or retributor squad if you have the right weapons and stuff.  In this case, you may still have to get some blisters for an HQ, and throw in a tank or two for some heavy support, and you might have a pretty good army.  Also with the DH in there, you'll have quite a force.  Overall, thats quite a big army already.  I'm not sure how much you could use, but i'd say definitely over 1000, even 1500 points, depending on how much of the Grey Knights you ally with the Sisters.  But you may choose to just keep the DH as a seperate force, which is cool too, and quite do-able, even though it can be challenging.
Even though the models may be old, it doesn't mean they aren't obsolete or anything :D

Anyway,I hope this got most of your questions and concerns taken care of.  Have fun!

Offline Defcon

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Re: 1 DH list and a ton of questions for DH/WH
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2005, 10:42:21 PM »
Terribly sorry to shanghai this thread, but I was wondering personally where the rules for the Sword of St. Acquitaine (sp) are located?  I'm thinking Chapter Approved, but I'm not sure.

But, since I'm here, I'll do my best to answer some of your WH questions so that somebody can come and correct me, and we can therefore both learn :)

... Well, gee, upon reading your post, the only thing you really need answered is the Exorcist question - It's in the WH codex, and trust me, you'll like it.  It seems to be a staple of WH armies.

TauShallBurn: Only Tau story in the codex I read is the one where the marine and the Imperial Ambassador are like "we're going to kill you for stealing our sh*t, b**tch," and the Tau is like: "I know /tear"

OtherGuy: That made me F***ing roffle.  HARD roffle.

Offline MurderHoard

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Re: 1 DH list and a ton of questions for DH/WH
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2005, 03:59:37 PM »
Daaammmnn Pixel!!! Thanks, you answered all my unanswered questions (the rest I got help from a friend and elsewere and it helped that I found a dedicated Yahoo group all about the DH) and you provided me with some great help/info. I'm currently working on getting more GK (all types/weapons) but for now some of the unit sizes will stay the same.

Here the updated list:

Unnamed1500 Pts  -   Daemonhunters Army

1 Ordo Malleus Inquisitor Lord (HQ) @ 263 Pts
     Psycannon
     Auspex
     Icon of the Just

     3 Acolyte @ [24] Pts
          Laspistol ; CCW ; Close Combat Weapon

     2 Mystic @ [12] Pts
          Laspistol & CC Weapon

     3 Sage @ [30] Pts
          Laspistol & CC Weapon

     3 Warrior @ [95] Pts
          Heavy Bolter Servitor (x2); Plasma Cannon Servitor (x1)

1 Grey Knight Grand Master (HQ) @ 375 Pts
     Nemesis Force Halberd; Storm Bolter
     #Terminator Armour


     5 Grey Knight Terminator Retinue @ [230] Pts
          Nemesis & Storm Bolter (x5)

1 Callidus Assassin (Elites) @ 120 Pts
     Callidus Temple; C'tan Phase Sword; Neural Shredder; Polymorphine; Poison
     Blades

5 Grey Knights (Troops) @ 175 Pts
     Nemesis & Storm Bolter

     1 Grey Knight Justicar @ [50] Pts
          Nemesis & Storm Bolter

5 Grey Knights (Troops) @ 175 Pts
     Nemesis & Storm Bolter

     1 Grey Knight Justicar @ [50] Pts
          Nemesis & Storm Bolter

1 Grey Knight Dreadnought (Heavy Support) @ 130 Pts
     Front Armour: 12; Side Armour: 12; Rear Armour: 10; Dread. CC Weapon;
     Storm Bolter; Twin Lascannon

1 Grey Knight Land Raider 'Crusader' (Heavy Support) @ 255 Pts
     2 'Hurricane' Bolters; Linked Assault Cannon; Multi-Melta
     #Extra Armour
     #Frag Launchers

Models in Army: 33


Total Army Cost: 1493
E v e r y b r e a t h y o u t a k e i s a n i n s u l t t o m y h o n o u r .
I t a m a z e s m e t h a t e v e r y t i m e y o u o p e n y o u r m o u t h y o u p r o v e y o u r s e l f m o r e o f a n i d i o t
Y o u a r e a f o o l ! I ' m g o i n g t o c r u s h y o u i n t o d u s t a n d t h r o w y o u i n t o t h e w i n d .


This is my world. You can't leave!...Don't leave...please?

 


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