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Author Topic: Craftworlds 2000 pts - need help improving and upgrading to 2250  (Read 169 times)

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Offline SeekingOne

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Greetings! :)

To make long story short, I really need some help answering a traditional question, well-known to any 40k hobbyist: What to paint next? :) But first, let me give you some context for the question.

Here's the list I've been using lately:

Quote
Detachment: Battalion (Saim-Hann)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
HQ 1: Farseer Skyrunner (Witchblade) - [135]
HQ 2: Warlock Skyrunner (Witchblade) - [70]
HQ 3: Maugan Ra - [140]

Troops 1: 5 Dire Avengers (Exarch) - [60]
Troops 2: 5 Dire Avengers - [60]
Troops 3: 5 Dire Avengers - [60]

Elites 1: 7 Fire Dragons (Exarch, Dragon's breath flamer) - [168]

Heavy Support 1: 5 Dark Reapers - [135]

Transport: Wave Serpent (Spirit stone, Shuriken cannon, Twin shuriken cannon) - [144]

Detachment: Outrider (Saim-Hann)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
HQ 1: Autarch Skyrunner (Laser lance) - [108]

Fast Attack 1: 3 Windriders (3 x Scatter laser) - [84]
Fast Attack 2: 3 Windriders (3 x Scatter laser) - [84]
Fast Attack 3: 3 Windriders (3 x Scatter laser) - [84]
Fast Attack 4: 6 Shining Spears (Exarch, Star lance) - [188]

Detachment: Air Wing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Flyers 1: Crimson Hunter - [160]
Flyers 2: Crimson Hunter - [160]
Flyers 3: Crimson Hunter - [160]

Total: 2000
(For those who followed my Project thread - I did finally have a bit of a break-through, and my squadron of 6 Shining Spears is almost complete. Hope to update the Project with some pics soon) :D

I consider this list to be a sort of "baseline" for my Craftworlds force in 8th edition. By "baseline" I mean that on one hand it makes the maximum use of the models that I already had painted since 7th, but on the other hand it already has undergone the minimal set of changes required to perform reasonably well in 8th, making some decent use of new game mechanics, stratagems, etc. It is not yet really optimised in terms of power (not by my standards anyway), but it did work surprisingly well for me so far.

There's a problem that I've been struggling with ever since I started painting my models to a decent quality and stopped playing with unpainted or crappily painted stuff: being a horrendously slow painter, I'm ever limited in units selection. In fact, this list above uses up about 90% of the painted models I have :)  The only other models/units that I have battle-ready are:
- 4 more Dragons
- 10 Warlocks on foot
- 15 Warp Spiders
- Wraithknight
Thus, unlike many other hobbyists who are much more talented and energetic than me, I cannot really commit to building and painting a whole new list with multiple new units and have it battle-ready in a month or two. I sort of have to evolve my list gradually, unit by unit, making sure that each new unit I paint works reasonably well with the rest of the list.

So, I hope sets the context for my question clearly enough. Now the question itself: in 2 (well, 1.5) weeks from now I'm participating in a local tournament with 2250 pts points limit, and I obviously need to expand the list above. If I were to use just the models I have, I guess the most natural thing to do would be to take a couple more Warlocks, maybe beef up the Dragons to a full squad of 10, and fill the rest with Spiders. However, in the time remaining, I just might paint up something more - something of better use than Spiders (which perform disappointingly poorly even with their reduced point cost). Realistically, in 1.5 weeks I can paint up to an acceptable tournament standard about 5 more infantry or a single vehicle - or, if I push myself really hard, I can probably increase that to 7-10 infantry or 2 vehicles. This can be virtually any unit(s), as I can't think of any codex unit that I haven't got at least a single box of models for lying around.  ;D I won't be able to complete the models of course, but I can do the airbrushing part and basing, and leave all the fine detailing for later. Question is, what unit should it be?

And then there's also additional long-term consideration: ideally I'd like that new unit to be something that I'll later upgrade my main 2k list with.

So, should it be the obvious choice of more Dark Reapers? Or is there something more creative that can be done here? 🙂 Any suggestions and thoughts on the question, as well as on the list in general, would be greatly appreciated!
« Last Edit: February 14, 2018, 03:39:22 AM by SeekingOne »
I fight against Chaos and for Order, because it means fighting for Life against Death. There is no other battle truly worth fighting.

"If it's not for a tournament then play whatever it is that you like. Without the pressure of having to utterly destroy your opponent it opens up alot more opportunity to have fun." - Lazarus

Offline Saim-Dann

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Re: Craftworlds 2000 pts - need help improving and upgrading to 2250
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2018, 04:44:43 AM »
G"day, SeekingOne!
Warp Hunter. Go for the Warp Hunter. Don't know how it would synergize with what you've already got, however, would love to see your painting skills on one... Pointy ears forever!!

Offline Partninja

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Re: Craftworlds 2000 pts - need help improving and upgrading to 2250
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2018, 05:40:07 AM »
I've found warp spiders to be quite good still. I'd take them out for a spin for a while unless you already have. Also note, I've been using a 10-man squad (I generally dislike and don't have much luck with MSU units except for rangers, bikes or wraithguard).

As for something "new" to paint Five wraithguard would be a good drop in. Would a big unit of guardians be too difficult in your time limit? They're not overly detailed and can be painted rather quickly. A detachment of rangers and warlocks could be nice too but would require more painting focus. At this point level I could really see the most benefit in just more reapers or shining spears.

Offline Alexxk

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Re: Craftworlds 2000 pts - need help improving and upgrading to 2250
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2018, 06:25:52 AM »
I don't know how competetive your tournament is, but you seem to want to get the most out of your list, so consider the folling advises (I wont go to competetive, I keep your list and soem fluff in mind):

-) Wave serpent: especially with 3 cannons (assault weapons), vectored engines are GREAT. You have enough anti infantry so just hitting on 4s is ok. the -1 to hit from vectored engines reduces damage taken by 25% (bs 3+ shooting), 33% (bs 4+ shooting) or even 50% (bs 5+ shooting). While spiritstones reduce it just by about 17%. You even save 5 points IIRC.

-) Reapers: Those are great and really good. Consider the tempest launcer on the exarch, its an awesome weapon! A second squad would definitly be good because the bring equal amounts of anti infantry and tank. You have to chose if you want a second squad (= another tempest launcher) or a big squad (= Fire and fade stratagem is really strong here)

-) Fire Dragons: vs T7 those 7 (with meltabombs used on the exarch) will do about 13W vs no invul saves. I don't know what you expect to face, but with one or 2 of the crimson hunters firing at the same target it should be gone. So take those more as final point fillers. I would recommend that you take a warlock with them, so you can jinx something that has an invul save.

-) Crimson Hunters: With the extra points I would upgrade them to exarchs. Rerolling 1's is worth it I guess, cause the wont be around the Autarch all the time.

-) Dire avengers, if you magnetized your models or the tournament is not WYSIWYG spend the extra 4 points for double catapult on the Exarchs.

-) Rangers are great! Since they infiltrate, you can easily deny deepstrike with them. They are also quite hard to move in cover. In your list I wouln't take them additionally, I would rather replace one of the dire avengers squads, so with painting time in mind this may be soemthing long ther (If you want to fill a brigarde at some point ;) )


I also like partyninjas advice with wraithguard. A unit of 5 with wraithcannons can deepstrike from the webway (if you don't have plans with this stratagem allready) and erase vehicles. Especially during turn 2, if you get doom and jinx onto something, the fire dragons and 5 wraithguards should be able to oneshot any lord of war! Together with the warlock for the fire dragons you have 15 more points open, for an ch exarch, the double catapults on the avengers, a ssinging spear on the farseer skyrunner or some serpent upgrades (vectored engines and star engines is a good combination).


So the other (and more "meta" aproach as you allready wrote) would be to get 5 more reapers (like writen above a second squad brings another tempest launcher, while a big one may have morale issues but can stay quite save with fire and fade). Definitly bring in the warlock for the dragons. The remeining 90 points can go into either making that single warlock a conclave (they will be unloaded up front, won't do much but its a use for ur models) or take more upgrades as you like (serpent with stones, star and vectored engines, CH exarchs, more avenger catapults, more dragons). You don't have more space in your detachmens for single warlocks sadly.

Third aproach would be to just fill in the warlock and a mixture of more reapers and shining spears!

I think your list looks quite fine, the only point of discussion would be maugan ra, a simple autarch with reaper launcher would fare similar while saving some points. A squad of warp spiders would be possible in addition to the reapers and warlock. Also have you looked into autarch equipment? If your tournament allows index loadouts you can give the autarch the banshees mask for free, which denies overwatch for him. And when he is in, the spears can follow safely.

A really unfluffy aproach would be to make the airwing and battalion craftworld alaitoc, since they don't gain anything from the saim-hann trait (shame on me for considering this, I know). Very competetive aproach, I don't know how competetive your meta is.

Have you thought about the psychic powers yet? Quicken would be great for the shining spears, together with the saim hann stratagem they can move 44" if you get it off, right infront of some caracters if bubble wrap allows it and assasinate basically any character. Obvious choice woule be on the warlock skyrunner. For the farseer doom and guide would be good for the dragons and their targets (the reapers dont need it that much with maugans reroll 1 aura). Fire Dragons support warlock should take jinx.

So a lot to consider, gonna look into your history now to see your painted models!

Offline Cavalier

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Re: Craftworlds 2000 pts - need help improving and upgrading to 2250
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2018, 06:26:07 AM »
@Seeking One- Hey bud, glad to see you back! Can't wait to see what you've cooked up in the project logs. I LOVE your list... I'm running something similar so I'm keen to compare notes.

As for adding something... how about some Howling Banshees? A little extra CC punch, plus Banshees mesh really well with the Saim-Hann traits. Re-rolling those charges distances is super nice and they are quick as hell.

If you aren't worried about getting Alpha Struck, they could borrow the Serpent you've already got in your list and perhaps allow you to sneak those Spiders in too if you've got the points.

I'd definitley add some CC as you've got killer shooting. Anyway just my thoughts, can't wait to see what you choose and see how you'll paint it. Looking forward to an update bud.
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Offline SeekingOne

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Re: Craftworlds 2000 pts - need help improving and upgrading to 2250
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2018, 11:04:11 AM »
Thank you ever so much people! Getting such 100% high quality feedback so quickly is just absolutely great.

@Casual
Warp Hunter is a really cool and interesting idea! However, unfortunately Forge World stuff is heavily frowned upon here and is banned from most events I attend regularly. But I do have plans to paint up a couple of Fire Prisms in the near future - I think they would make a good substitute for a Warp Hunter in terms of painting :)

@PartNinja
Thanks for advice! 10-strong unit of Warp Spiders is something I actually didn't think about, will definitely try it.
WG is also an interesting option. I assume you mean the Wraithcannon type, which can be dropped from the Webway? Deep-stiriking a unit of these alongside Dragons and advancing Shinig Spears, with CHs and Reapers supporting them from afar, might indeed leave my opponent facing more immediate threats than he can comfortably deal with. WG also should have some synergy with the Saim-Hann attribute as they are actually decent in close combat while being able to fall back and still fire if necessary. This means that I can comfortably paint them in Saim-hann colours without that annoying feeling of making a sub-optimal choice.

20 Guardians is definitely too many models... Besides, foot guardians don't fit the Saim-Hann theme that well - so I'm planning to eventually convert my army into a sort of allied force. According to my plans, Outrider detachment will stay Saim-Hann, while Battalion will have its non-Aspect units painted in some non-standard colour scheme which would enable me to field it as Alaitoc or Ulthwe. Then it would be time to expand it with some Guardians and Rangers. However, before I do that the new colour scheme has to be finalised - and I haven't yet got much further than the vague idea of using deep blues and violets :) So guardians will have to wait.

@Alexxk
Thanks for some great food for thought, and for taking your time to write it all down. I think you're spot on with practically all suggestions. As I mentioned above, I do feel that I'm starting to lean very strongly towards a unit of Wraithguard (not the least because I actually have a unit of 5 already assembled, magnetised and primed! :)) One thing that makes me reluctant to paint more Reapers right now is the upcoming big GW FAQ that presumably should hit us in March. If Reapers end up getting a huge point cost increase, the effort will be wasted...

As for the "unfluffy suggestion" ;D my tournaments are pretty competitive (not LVO level, but still there are lists like Nids with 15 Hive Guard, 2 Exocrenes and 6 character Zoantropes, or Tallarn IG with outflanking super-heavy). Now, I can't really declare my Battalion Alaitoc as my farseer, warlock and Serpent are painted in Saim-Hann colours, and colour scheme is treated as a part of WYSIWYG :) However, Crimson Hunters are Aspects and technically have their own Aspect colour scheme - and so my Air Wing will be Alaitoc for sure )

One thing is unclear to me though: why do you think that Warlock supporting Dragons should have Jinx? Is it to reduce Inv saves?

@Cavalier
Hey, glad to hear you too :) Since you're interested, I'll definitely try to write up a summary of my experience with the list.
Banshees are actually my latest purchase  :) Love them, and will likely be painting them soon! However, I feel they really do need their own Serpent to keep them safe from 1st turn alpha-strikes, and I do face those a lot (see my note above about the Nid lists which can be seen around...).
As I mentioned above, I have some grand plans on developing two allied forces, one of which will be Saim-Hann with bikes, melee units and likely WG, and the other ground/ranged Alaitoc, with Rangers, Reapers and Guardians. Once I paint up the first non-Saim-Hann Serpent, Reapers will switch to it and then the Saim-Hann one that I currently have will be free to take girls on board :)
I fight against Chaos and for Order, because it means fighting for Life against Death. There is no other battle truly worth fighting.

"If it's not for a tournament then play whatever it is that you like. Without the pressure of having to utterly destroy your opponent it opens up alot more opportunity to have fun." - Lazarus

Offline Alexxk

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Re: Craftworlds 2000 pts - need help improving and upgrading to 2250
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2018, 05:40:48 PM »

One thing is unclear to me though: why do you think that Warlock supporting Dragons should have Jinx? Is it to reduce Inv saves?

You got it!

 


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