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Author Topic: Jumping on the Band Wagon - 1850 Harlequins  (Read 9061 times)

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Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Jumping on the Band Wagon - 1850 Harlequins
« on: March 11, 2015, 06:28:33 PM »
I am getting my tax return on Monday and plan on running out immediately and buying almost an entire army of Harlequins as soon as I can.  Here is the list I was looking at fielding:

Cegorach's Revenge

Troops
10 man Harlequin Troupe:  4 Embrace, 3 Caress.  214pts

10 man Harlequin Troupe:  4 Embrace, 3 Caress.  214pts

10 man Harlequin Troupe:  4 Embrace, 3 Caress.  214pts

Elites
Shadowseer:  ML2, Mask of Secrets.  100pts

Shadowseer:  ML2, Neuro Disruptor.  95pts

Shadowseer:  ML2, Neuro Disruptor.  95pts

3 Deathjesters180pts

Solitaire:  Cegorach's Rose.  160pts

Fast Attack
3 Skyweavers:  2 Zephyrglaives / Shuriken Cannons, 1 Haywire Cannon / tribola (I think that is what it is called).  175pts

3 Skyweavers:  2 Zephyrglaives / Shuriken Cannons, 1 Haywire Cannon / tribola (I think that is what it is called).  175pts

Heavy Support
3 Void Weavers225pts

Total Points:  1847
Model Count:  46

I am undecided if I want the Warlord to be a Shadowseer or a Troupe Master just yet.  I like that with the seer, there is a slightly more reliable chance of getting some decent traits.  But the Troupe Master has the full range available to him, and all three of the charts have good traits.

Every Troupe unit is joined by a DJ and SS, and the seer that has the mask will be in the "Warlord unit", which ever that is.  The Solitaire will be deep striking.  The Skyweavers and Voidweavers I am undecided if I want them starting on the board or in reserve.  It will definitely be a decision that has to be made depending on my opponent, but I am leaning towards the default position being reserves.

First turn for the Troupes will probably be straight forward, move and run towards the enemy, hoping to get Veil of tears off to cover them as they advance.  After that, hoping the Deathjesters do their magic and force the enemy to run closer to my guys.

Now, the initial purchase I am making will leave me short a few models.  More specifically I will be short 4 Skyweavers and one Voidreaver, but everything else will be in hand including the codex and the datacards.

Let me know what you think.
If there is anything that recent politics has taught us, it is that quotes taken out of context can mean what ever you want them to.
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Offline Skyleap

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Re: Jumping on the Band Wagon - 1850 Harlequins
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2015, 01:44:53 AM »
I suspect you'll be Running and Charging more often than not, so I don't know if giving the SSs Neuro-disruptors is worth it, especially if they're the only ones in the entire army armed with them. You're better off firing the Hallucinogen Grenade Launcher instead if you were to shoot anything at all. Use those points to either upgrade your Voidweaver weapons to Prismatic Cannons or give one of your Troupe Masters a Crescendo.

It sounds like you plan to run all the SSs with Phantasmancy. Any inkling to give Telepathy a go, and if so, in what situation(s) would you switch?

Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: Jumping on the Band Wagon - 1850 Harlequins
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2015, 12:22:27 PM »
That is a good point about the ND's on the seers.  I will look into swapping those out.  I do not like the Prismatic Cannons though.  I view the Voidweavers as being anti-tank, and in all honesty the Haywire Cannons fill that role much more efficiently.  The strength of the focused lance just makes it unreliable as an anti-tank weapon, I find.

As for changing to Telepathy, I was only able to read through the store copy of the codex and won't be able to pick up my own until Tuesday.  I'd have to give Phantasmancy a closer read to find out what situations I would switch.  In all honesty, I could see the switch happening if I am facing an army that focuses more on close combat, where I would need to rely on Invisibility to help with the survival of the clowns, where as Veil of Tears gives greater protection from mid to long range shooting.
If there is anything that recent politics has taught us, it is that quotes taken out of context can mean what ever you want them to.
Well I always liked the globals...
I knew I had fans!!!

Quote
"Dark Angels are Traitors" is the 40k equivalent of Flat Earthers.  You can provide all of the proof you want that says otherwise, but people just can't let it go...

Offline Dread

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Re: Jumping on the Band Wagon - 1850 Harlequins
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2015, 03:26:04 PM »
I like your list. Now, my suggestions would be to put fusion guns in each troupe to help with the anti tank when needed.

I agree about the neuro Disruptor, its profile is awesome but for points his shur pistol can be almost as good.

The prismatic cannon is well worth it. In a situation where you have to jink, it will still get a shot with the later profile where as the haywire cannon won't. Just my view.

As for the warlord, you have a good point but with the troupe masters ability to reroll his trait, I like this a bit better.

As for the star bolas, it is just so hard to even want to use it with a one use only tag on it. The Zephyrglaives, tho cc weapons, to me have a better pounch for their points and the hit and run just pushes that idea more. As for the 1 haywire in each unit, that's a good call but again remember jink and with just 3 in each unit, it's a hard call. In units of 6 I can see that as a perfect option.

Mask of secrets, this is a tough one. For its points it is well worth it but there are some better artifacts that can make a bit more difference in the list. For instance the Laughing God's eye for the psychic heavy armies.

As for psychic powers, myself, I really like the new ones. Making each of them lvl 2 allows 3 powers each, win-win in my book.

Can't wait til ya get to play the list and hear back from you with a bat rep. Right now I only have 3 6man troupe units, 2 seers, 2 jesters, 2 skyweavers and as of today a void weaver. So it will be a bit before I'm ready for a pure harli list.
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Offline Skyleap

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Re: Jumping on the Band Wagon - 1850 Harlequins
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2015, 12:53:45 AM »
I do not like the Prismatic Cannons though.  I view the Voidweavers as being anti-tank, and in all honesty the Haywire Cannons fill that role much more efficiently.  The strength of the focused lance just makes it unreliable as an anti-tank weapon, I find.

Interestingly, I view the Skyweavers as anti-tank and opt to upgrade all of their Shuriken Cannons to Haywire Cannons. Their flexibility comes in the fact I can assault with them.

The variability of the Prismatic Cannons makes it an all-purpose weapon that can take out swarms, MEqs and armor alike. And the fact it has two Shuriken Cannons on it besides adds another dimension of flexibility should you desire it.

Offline Wyldhunt

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Re: Jumping on the Band Wagon - 1850 Harlequins
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2015, 01:21:41 AM »
I love the idea of the prism cannon on the voidweavers, but I must arch an eyebrow at the relatively low strength values.  Haywire is my favorite rule, and I'll probably be leaning on it heavily unless I find that my biker harlies (pun there)are able to carry the anti-tank weight on their own.  Their assault move helps them stay alive after firing, y'see.  The problem I see with a lot of our shooting is that it's either a single shot or a blast meaning its either unreliable or unusable after being forced to jink.  Holofields help make up for this in conjunction with mirage launchers, but our survivability doesn't look great either way.  I'm leaning towards bikes with haywires and glaives so that they can hide behind cover while taking down vehicles for the first few turns, then charge in to help with assaults as needed. 

In regards to your list, I worry that your foot sloggers might be out of luck trying to cross the board unelss you get a lucky warlord trait or have luck with your defensive phantasmancy.  I'm not clear on why you would want to use your shadowseer as your warlord other than that his lookout sir would be a 2+ rather than 4+.  If you're looking for psychic powers to keep the squad alive, I advise against fishing for invisibility.  Unless your opponent is using markerlights or wave serpents, you're better off going with phantasmancy for defense.  If you get the power that gives them stealth + shrouded, awesome.  If not, you're still guaranteed veil of tears.  Heck, Veil of Tears even helps against serpents and markerlights!  And one of the powers on that list sort of emulates invisibility (albeit in a toned-down fashion). 


Offline Aoitora

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Re: Jumping on the Band Wagon - 1850 Harlequins
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2015, 02:49:20 AM »
@ Wyldhunt, double check the rules for holo-suits I think you'll find a nice surprise there regarding LO,S. I think this would even supersede the assassins LO,S modifiers.

Offline Dread

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Re: Jumping on the Band Wagon - 1850 Harlequins
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2015, 02:56:37 AM »
Well I'll be, thanks for the heads up Aoitora.
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Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: Jumping on the Band Wagon - 1850 Harlequins
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2015, 12:02:00 PM »
I like your list. Now, my suggestions would be to put fusion guns in each troupe to help with the anti tank when needed.
I considered the Fusion Pistols, but the exteme short range means that if they are going tank hunting, they have to be almost on top of the vehicle.  That causes some problems if the vehicle explodes, with their toughness and low save, I can see quite a few clowns dying to their own success.

I agree about the neuro Disruptor, its profile is awesome but for points his shur pistol can be almost as good.
Points are all well made, I am going to be swapping them out for the Laughing God's Eye.

The prismatic cannon is well worth it. In a situation where you have to jink, it will still get a shot with the later profile where as the haywire cannon won't. Just my view.
True, but I am fine with a unit jinking and not being able to shoot for a turn.  In my view, they are the best anti-tank unit in the codex, and the Haywire Cannons are more of a reliable method of killing a tank than the Prismatic Cannon.

As for the warlord, you have a good point but with the troupe masters ability to reroll his trait, I like this a bit better.
Definitely what I am leaning towards.

As for the star bolas, it is just so hard to even want to use it with a one use only tag on it. The Zephyrglaives, tho cc weapons, to me have a better pounch for their points and the hit and run just pushes that idea more. As for the 1 haywire in each unit, that's a good call but again remember jink and with just 3 in each unit, it's a hard call. In units of 6 I can see that as a perfect option.
The starbola is more of a "use it if you need it" type weapon to be used against TEQ's.  With being blast, it is a more reliable way to get those high ap hits in and punch through armour.  The Zephyrglaives are great, don't get me wrong, but a round of bad rolling can mean you do nothing.  If the starbola does nothing at least I can reconsider if I want to charge that unit or not.

I do not like the Prismatic Cannons though.  I view the Voidweavers as being anti-tank, and in all honesty the Haywire Cannons fill that role much more efficiently.  The strength of the focused lance just makes it unreliable as an anti-tank weapon, I find.

Interestingly, I view the Skyweavers as anti-tank and opt to upgrade all of their Shuriken Cannons to Haywire Cannons. Their flexibility comes in the fact I can assault with them.

With Shuriken Cannons being a very well rounded weapon, they can still hunt light tanks.  But the biggest thing is that it gives them something specific to be concerned about.  The Skyweavers (in my view) are better at hunting infantry than they are at tanks.

What I might do is pin or magnetize the weapons and run the cannons for a bit.  If I find that I need the added AT punch I will swap them to Haywires.

The variability of the Prismatic Cannons makes it an all-purpose weapon that can take out swarms, MEqs and armor alike. And the fact it has two Shuriken Cannons on it besides adds another dimension of flexibility should you desire it.
I love the idea of the prism cannon on the voidweavers, but I must arch an eyebrow at the relatively low strength values.  Haywire is my favorite rule, and I'll probably be leaning on it heavily unless I find that my biker harlies (pun there)are able to carry the anti-tank weight on their own.  Their assault move helps them stay alive after firing, y'see.  The problem I see with a lot of our shooting is that it's either a single shot or a blast meaning its either unreliable or unusable after being forced to jink.  Holofields help make up for this in conjunction with mirage launchers, but our survivability doesn't look great either way.  I'm leaning towards bikes with haywires and glaives so that they can hide behind cover while taking down vehicles for the first few turns, then charge in to help with assaults as needed.

It really is the low strength that has me turned off from the Prismatic Cannons.  Needing a 5 to glance after the Lance rule comes in to effect is just too low of odds to rely on for anti-tank.  The Haywire cannons are a very reliable method of causing damage, even if it is only glancing.

In regards to your list, I worry that your foot sloggers might be out of luck trying to cross the board unelss you get a lucky warlord trait or have luck with your defensive phantasmancy.  I'm not clear on why you would want to use your shadowseer as your warlord other than that his lookout sir would be a 2+ rather than 4+.  If you're looking for psychic powers to keep the squad alive, I advise against fishing for invisibility.  Unless your opponent is using markerlights or wave serpents, you're better off going with phantasmancy for defense.  If you get the power that gives them stealth + shrouded, awesome.  If not, you're still guaranteed veil of tears.  Heck, Veil of Tears even helps against serpents and markerlights!  And one of the powers on that list sort of emulates invisibility (albeit in a toned-down fashion). 
Having taken another look at the Discipline, I am actually fairly certain that there will be almost no instances where I will be taking Telepathy over Phantasmancy.  The only power that doesn't seem worth it is the #5 power, everything else is just so good.  The way I am planning on running the list is to have everything deployed on a flank and run across the board.  The first two turns I am probably going to be looking at pouring all of the dice into Veil of Tears to give them the chance to survive as they make the mad dash.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2015, 03:10:21 PM by Battle Master Lomandalis »
If there is anything that recent politics has taught us, it is that quotes taken out of context can mean what ever you want them to.
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I knew I had fans!!!

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"Dark Angels are Traitors" is the 40k equivalent of Flat Earthers.  You can provide all of the proof you want that says otherwise, but people just can't let it go...

Offline Wyldhunt

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Re: Jumping on the Band Wagon - 1850 Harlequins
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2015, 02:00:11 PM »
You don't like the Laugh of Sorrows? But it's a perfect way to deal with any unit lead by a character or that has low Ld!  Unless it's a bland squad of Ld7/8, you're bound to do at least a little damage, and it's not like the Ld7/8 guys are immune to its effects either. :)

Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: Jumping on the Band Wagon - 1850 Harlequins
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2015, 03:12:04 PM »
Just from experience, I have found that powers that rely on leadership tests are too unreliable to be of any real effect.  Now granted, have a Shadowseer with the Mask of Secrets near by and it is useful.  But for doing damage, that #6 power is just glorious.  Absolutely glorious lol.
If there is anything that recent politics has taught us, it is that quotes taken out of context can mean what ever you want them to.
Well I always liked the globals...
I knew I had fans!!!

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"Dark Angels are Traitors" is the 40k equivalent of Flat Earthers.  You can provide all of the proof you want that says otherwise, but people just can't let it go...

Offline Fenris

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Re: Jumping on the Band Wagon - 1850 Harlequins
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2015, 05:49:10 PM »
I would probably rather have more upgrades on the players than so many bodies if I were you, as you are likely to have trouble against MC's.

As for laugh of sorrows and mask of secrets, that combination is just bad in ALL ways possible. Hear me out, most units you are going to face have Ld8-10 this means they will be rolling against a lesser value than that. Since you both need to succeed and fail a Ld test, preferably by as many points as possible. Ld7 would be the worst possibble Ld value, due to pure statistics, here is a list of the worst values to cast laugh of sorrows on:
1. Ld7 (worst)
2. Ld6
3. Ld8
4. Ld5
5. Ld9
6. Ld4
7. Ld10
8. Ld3 (best)
If you then apply the effect of the mask of secrets to this list you will see that the mask is just going to make laugh of sorrows worse against anything with Ld8-10.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2015, 05:50:29 PM by Fenris »
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Offline Katamari Damacy

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Re: Jumping on the Band Wagon - 1850 Harlequins
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2015, 04:36:16 AM »
Imho the old Eldar saying "do not mix weapons" is true for the Skyweavers as well. Without having playtested them; I'd always upgrade to Zephyrglaives. The bikes are already very expensive and a little extra wont make a big difference point-wise but it will make a huge difference on what the bikes are able to do on the battlefield.

After all, you do pay for their CC abilities and without the Glaive, they are somewhat wasted.

Personally, i will run a unit of 4-5 Bikes with Glaives and Shuriken Cannons in pretty much every list i can imagine but i'll also run a unit of two with Haywire Cannons. They're a good AT platfgorm and at 2 models, they're easy to keep out of harms way. In a list with either Dark Eldar oder Eldar, they will combine nicely with units of Vypers, Scourges and all kinds of Eldar Jetbike units.
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Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: Jumping on the Band Wagon - 1850 Harlequins
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2015, 01:39:47 AM »
My order came in on Thursday and I picked everything up, spending a hell of a lot of time getting it all assembled.  I saved the Troupes to be assembled last and finished them off at around 2330 tonight.



That was my initial order, but I wasn't able to field a legal list like that, so I added in another box of Skyweavers.  The LGS owner tossed in the painting guide for me, the joys of being friends with him.

As I was assembling the list, I was thinking on the composition.  The more I thought about it, the more I was convinced some aspects had to change.  Here is the new list, which is more or less set as the models are all assembled like this:

Cegorach's Revenge

Troops
10 Harlequin Troupes:  3 Kisses, 3 Embraces, 3 Caresses.  224pts

10 Harlequin Troupes:  3 Kisses, 3 Embraces, 3 Caresses.  224pts

10 Harlequin Troupes:  3 Kisses, 3 Embraces, 3 Caresses.  224pts

Elites
3x Deathjester180pts

Shadowseer:  Lvl 2, The Mask of Secrets.  100pts

Shadowseer:  Lvl 2, The Laughing God's Eye.  105pts

Shadowseer:  Lvl 2.  85pts

Solitaire:  Cegorach's Rose, Haywire Grenade.  165pts

Fast Attack
3 Skyweavers:  3 Zephyrglaives, 3 Haywire Cannons.  195pts

3 Skyweavers:  3 Zephyrglaives, 3 Haywire Cannons.  195pts

Heavy Support
2 Voidweavers:  Haywire Cannons.  150pts

Total points:  1847
Model Count:  45

For the Troupes, I was looking at the kisses and focusing too much on the unreliability of the Instant Death, less so on how hard that one attack hits.  I also came to the realization that this list was sorely lacking in anti-tank, so the Skyweavers were repurposed to all have Haywire Cannons and deal with any armour.  In most circumstances, each squad should be able to bring down a vehicle a turn unless I roll poorly on the scatter.

You don't like the Laugh of Sorrows? But it's a perfect way to deal with any unit lead by a character or that has low Ld!  Unless it's a bland squad of Ld7/8, you're bound to do at least a little damage, and it's not like the Ld7/8 guys are immune to its effects either. :)
I know where my problem was.  I totally misread the power.  I thought it would only do damage if they failed both tests.  Reading through the Discipline again, there is no power I would say I would be upset to get.
If there is anything that recent politics has taught us, it is that quotes taken out of context can mean what ever you want them to.
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I knew I had fans!!!

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"Dark Angels are Traitors" is the 40k equivalent of Flat Earthers.  You can provide all of the proof you want that says otherwise, but people just can't let it go...

Offline Dread

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Re: Jumping on the Band Wagon - 1850 Harlequins
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2015, 01:49:16 AM »
Now that looks like a great list and congrates on getting everything. I really like how it is set up and can't wait for a bat rep from you. I haven't got to play in several weeks now so I will have to live thru yours until my life roller coaster slows down. Painting them on the other hand....and what name for your masque?
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Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: Jumping on the Band Wagon - 1850 Harlequins
« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2015, 11:47:29 AM »
I don't usually name my armies.  The most I have put thought into is how I am going to paint them.  I was considering solid red and black as the primary colours, with blue being the accent.  The characters would get the red and blue checkered pattern to help them stand out.  The units will be differentiated by the colouring of the masks.  The base base colour will be white, but the masks will be washed with red / blue / black or green.
If there is anything that recent politics has taught us, it is that quotes taken out of context can mean what ever you want them to.
Well I always liked the globals...
I knew I had fans!!!

Quote
"Dark Angels are Traitors" is the 40k equivalent of Flat Earthers.  You can provide all of the proof you want that says otherwise, but people just can't let it go...

Offline Dread

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Re: Jumping on the Band Wagon - 1850 Harlequins
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2015, 05:56:30 PM »
It's funny, in all the years I've only ever named a couple of the many armies I've had.

Colors sound good and using the masks to set them apart is a good idea. I can't wait to see them as you progress in painting them.
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Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: Jumping on the Band Wagon - 1850 Harlequins
« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2015, 07:15:04 PM »
Still have to pick up a couple of colours before I start painting.  Need to get a brown for the leather I want to do, as well as the sand for the bases.  I am looking forward to painting this army though.

I also made identification of the weapons easy so I can tell what squad has what left at a glance.  Those with the Caress have coats and mohawks, Embraces have the loose hair pony-tails, and the Kisses have no hair at all.  I'll clean off my desk and get some pictures of the units and the entire army to show how it is set up.
If there is anything that recent politics has taught us, it is that quotes taken out of context can mean what ever you want them to.
Well I always liked the globals...
I knew I had fans!!!

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"Dark Angels are Traitors" is the 40k equivalent of Flat Earthers.  You can provide all of the proof you want that says otherwise, but people just can't let it go...

Offline Dread

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Re: Jumping on the Band Wagon - 1850 Harlequins
« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2015, 07:28:37 PM »
Cool, I'll do the same. It's small right now but will be added to. I only have 18 troupes with 3 masters, soli, 2 shadowseers, 2 jesters, 4 skyweaveers and a void weaver. So, in order to run a list, the bkies will be 2 units of 2, you really think the haywire launchers are worth it? How about the boalo's? My other 2 have glaives and shur cannons.
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Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: Jumping on the Band Wagon - 1850 Harlequins
« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2015, 10:32:12 PM »
I think it really depends on your meta which would be a better option to go with.  Around here, a lot of the guys play with a good amount of armour, and the list lacks the anti-tank punch without the Haywire Cannons.  Zephyrglaives are great close combat weapons when used on the charge.  While Bola's are cool, their range is short and their effect can be negated if your opponent properly spaces his units.  The glaives on the other hand are always going to be effective and you are more likely to get more hits by using them in combat than you will get from the bolas.

Here are the pictures I promised.

The whole force:


The three Troupe Masters:

I felt that the legs they used with the Masters in all the images was just a clumsy look to them, so I gave them some of the more dynamic poses.  The key thing is that they are the only models in the army that carry swords, so they are easy to identify.

The three Troupe weapon choices:


I'll be honest, I was surprised that the Caress was such a small part of the model.  Anyways, like I said, just by looking at the model's hair I can tell at a glance what weapons are left in the squad.

Probably starting on Wednesday I will begin painting.  I would love to say the Solitaire is going to be the first model I will put the brush to, but I want to make sure I like the paint scheme, so the test model will likely be a Troupe.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2015, 10:34:39 PM by Grand Master Lomandalis »
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