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Author Topic: Returning to 40k as Eldar- Looking for advice on Lists in the modern age!  (Read 2457 times)

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Offline Dageran

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I've recently started getting back into the hobby, having not played since 3rd edition. I've been having a blast painting the new models, (especially the wraith units).

Unfortunately I've been getting completely dismantled in 1v1s. (The worst was against a nid player, who took out 3/4ths of my army in turn 2, fielding 3x shooty gaunts, 1x horma, 2x zoan, 1x warriors, 1x dakkafex + hive tyrant).

Unfortunately, we don't play on maps with any real LoS blockers, only cover.

I was hoping to get some advice on my current list, and see if there's anything more competitive I could build out of the units I already have at the 750 point range as a general list to run against Chaos, Tau, and Tyranids.

I'm willing to invest in some new units, but if possible, I'd like to stick with a wraith theme and avoid jetbikes if possible (I'm aware they are the go-to unit, but I was curious to see if I could avoid them... they're not fun to paint for me).

List A: 750/750 (The one that got wrecked by the nid)
    CAD:
    • 1x Spiritseer
    • 1x Wave Serpent (Scatter + Vectored Engines)
    • 5x Wraithguard (D Scythe)
    • 5x Dire Avengers
    Aspect Shrine Formation (+1 WS):
    • 5x Striking Scorpions (inc Exarch)
    • 5x Striking Scorpions (inc Exarch)
    • 5x Dire Avengers (inc Exarch)

List B: (746/750) (Usually for 2v2s)
  • 1x Spiritseer
  • 1x Wave Serpent (scatter + vectored)
  • 5x Wraithguard (D Scythe, on foot)
  • 5x Wraithguard (stock, In the serpent)
  • 8x Striking Scorpions (inc Exarch w Scorpion's Claw)

And, in total, I have to play with:
  • 1x Farseer
  • 1x Spiritseer
  • 5x Wraithguard (D Scythe)
  • 5x Wraithguard (Stock)
  • 1x Wraithlord
  • 16x Dire Avengers
  • 10x Striking Scorpions (inc Two Exarch)
  • 10x Howling Banshees (inc Exarch)
  • 15x Rangers
  • 1x Falcon
  • 2x Wave Serpents (scatters)
  • 1x Fire Prism (stock)
  • 1x Vyper (Scatter)

Any advice on what I could build with these units (or with some additions/modifications) would be greatly appreciated! (And if I should give up on wraith units at the 750 pt tier).

Offline dog_of_war

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I've had quite a bit of successive versus nids and my dire avengers were key in all my victories. Unless you're dealing with a flying circus (a ton of flying hive tyrants). The beauty with avengers is their massive amount of shuriken shots that can cause rending. This is fantastic against a nid player with lots of high toughness, monstrous creatures. The ton of shuriken fire is not too shabby against a horde army either. Taking a vanilla avenger shrine, 30 avengers will dish out 60 shots and once per game you can boost that to 90. I've taken out a tervigon per turn with this formation. It's versatile, quick with the use of battle focus and most opponents won't place priority in removing them.

You actually have a good model base to run a footdar army i.e. all infantry, no vehicles. This is my favourite type of eldar to play. With battle focus, they are so quick that you don't need to waste points on transports.

750 point games are going to be very tough for eldar. Once you get up to the 1500 point level, you'll notice a remarkable improvement in how your army performs. Many units in the eldar barracks are specialist units and work in conjunction with other units. You don't have many jack-of-all-trades units with eldar.

Technically both lists you have posted are unbound, which by no means is illegal and many players play these lists at really low point games or really high point games. Just make sure your opponent is okay with it before you play. To have a CAD you need 1 HQ and 2 Troop. This is where I think part of your issue is with getting wrecked in a lot of games. In an unbound army, especially at low points, peopel tend to put in really expensive units that you rely heavily on, while your opponent is able to field a much larger army. People also end up making very unbalanced armies. An army doesn't need to be completely balanced, but if it focuses too much in one aspect without mitigating its weaknesses then the average army will most likely beat it. The lists you have posted are of very small, short range units that are easily split up and isolate. They don't play very well to the eldar strength of speed.

What I would start with is just a normal CAD at 750 points and build from there. Sure formations give you some great bonuses, but you may be short changing your army to try and fit one in at 750 points.

I'd try something like this:

Spiritseer (70)
Dire Avengers x 8 (104)
Dire Avengers x 8 (104)
Rangers x 5 (60)
Rangers x 5 (60)
Scorpions x9 + exarch w/ claw (210)
Wraithlord x2 flamers, Brightlance (140)

[748]

Now that's just working on what you have. I'd setup the spiritseer in a unit of avengers with the wraithlord beside them. The units of rangers could stay in reserve and outflank or setup somewhere on the opposite sides of the board. The other dire avengers would setup in cover, center board. The scorpions can setup center board as well or outflank. Your cover saves with all that stealth should keep your guys alive for a while while you press your attack. Your opponent will most likely focus on the wraithlord, being the big, bad meany on your side. Use the primaris power to keep yourself safe unless you roll well and an opportunity shows up that is too good to miss.

Hope that helps, I'd look into investing into some more avengers and some warp spiders. I'd also keep an eye out for an avatar once you get high enough points, as they work very well in a foot army.

Good luck, I hope the advice helps.

*edit* you can put the avengers and scorpions in a formation with this list because you have the two units of rangers as troops
« Last Edit: August 21, 2016, 08:40:39 AM by dog_of_war »

Offline Dageran

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Wow, thanks for the in-depth response! If you have the time, I do have a few followup questions.

I completely missed that the lists would be Unbound- I'd been told that Spiritseers made Wraithguard into troop choices. If that was once true in 6th, it looks like there's no mention of it anymore in 7th. Thanks for pointing it out to me.

Footdar sounds interesting, but I feel like I'm having trouble figuring out how to actually use the dire avengers / rangers to an advantage. (The tables we usually play on don't have any LoS blockers.

Playing against the nid army I mentioned, I was almost tabled by the end of his 2nd shooting phase. Without LoS blockers, how should I plan to protect a footdar army from a swarm-heavy strategy from the nids, or an ultra-shooty army like the tau?

Investing in more dire avengers seems like good advice in the short term, but I was actually hoping to keep working towards a Wraith-host, for when we start playing more games at 1500pts. (Either that, or look into some of the wraithblade oriented formations from FW.) Would you recommend either of those to a new/casual player, or are they harder to play than the footdar?

Offline Cavalier

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Hey Dageran. Welcome to 7th ed. Seems like you've got a very nice selection of models. Basically all you need are some Wave Serpents for your Avengers to make optimal use of what you have . Also dont bother with the Vectored engines. Scatter Lasers and Shuriken Cannons (if that) are all that is really necessary. I play with Avengers, Scorpions all the time and they are very capable, but will struggle against monster heavy lists but should shred infantry. 

Also you need LOS blocking terrain. Its an absolute MUST for 7th ed. I bring terrain to all my games because my store doesnt have any.





I made an entire tables worth of LOS blocking terrain these big rocks are big enough to hide a Wraithknight. It cost like $35 to make an entire tables worth of terrain. All you need to do is cut it, chip it up, paint it and put on a 89 cent tiles and then base it. Super easy and makes games far more interesting.

Also if you are looking to expand your army, I'm sure you've gleaned by now the terrific power of Eldar Jetbikes with Scatter Lasers and Warp Spiders. You don't need to spam them but scattering them into any army (no pun intended) is a huge boon to any Eldar army. They also cheap enough to fit into even the most tightly themed army.

However with what you have just pick up another Serpent for your Avengers. Make sure you ALWAYS take claws on your Scorpion Exarchs as well. My Scorpions have been incredible for me lately. But more than anything make sure you have good terrain, its absolutely essential for 7th ed.
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Offline dog_of_war

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Definitely agree with Cav that some LOS blocking makes for a better game for all opponents. The list I built for you is survivable without however. The bonuses you receive for cover saves for most units should keep you in good shape.

Putting the dire avengers in wave serpents is a good strategy as well, but at 750 points, that would be half your army invested in two units, allowing very little else. Considering your other choices are limited and very point heavy, it seems like a sub-optimal choice.

If you want to run a wraith army right away at lower points just take the wraith host. You can take an army if only formations without a CAD. You would have to purchase a wraith knight to make it work.

The more elite the force you are playing ie the more expensive units your army consists of, typically the more difficult it is to play. It's less forgiving because you are very limited in your choices. You have fewer units to target the enemy and contest objectives. You are easily tarpitted by the enemy effectively negating your unit and almost all wraith units, with the exception of the knight are slow. A faster army can just run circles around you.

If you are worried about alpha strikes, keep your more delicate units in reserve to come in later. I do think however that your cover saves should keep you well protected.

To mitigate the slowness if a wraith army, you need to supplement it with very fast, harassing units like jetbikes and warp spiders.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2016, 08:42:52 AM by dog_of_war »

Offline magenb

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DoW 's list for your models is rather good, both the rangers and scorpions are going to be tuff to remove and the rangers give you some much needed range, due to their cover saves.

LOS blocking terrain will be great for your DA's, if it is allowed at your game store, nock up some and take your own in.

Now without LOS blocking you really need to get some range so you don't have to move out of cover very much. The new jetbikes as suggested do a great job for this.

Offline Dageran

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Gotcha,

Thanks again for the advice-- I'll look into crafting some LoS blocking terrain to bring to our next session.

I've heard the suggestions about jetbikes before-- I'm just avoiding them for the time being because I don't find them very fun to paint.

I am surprised (in a good way) to hear the rangers being recommended into this, though. They were some of my favorite units in 3rd, and I was very sad to hear that pathfinders are gone. I'm pretty confused with that they're supposed to be good at, though.

Their long range seems to make them less good for battling for objectives, and in the past few games I've fielded them, their ability to contribute damage to the battlefield has been... very disappointing. Your suggestions make me feel like I must be using them wrong-- What kinds of targets should I be turning them against?

Offline dog_of_war

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Pathfinders aren't technically gone. You just have to take illyic nightspear to have your rangers act as pathfinders.

As for objectives, they are great to camp in your own objectives, as long as you're not facing a heldrake, infiltrate close to an enemies objectives, or better yet, keep a unit in reserve and outflank them into your enemies deployment zone far away from any of his units for an easy line breaker point.

The great thing with rangers is that they are a pesky thorn in your opponents side, if used properly. Put them somewhere out of the way, where your opponent won't want to commit sending anything after them.

Use them to target high toughness units, especially monstrous creatures. They also help take out special weapons in squads with precision shots. Characters can look out sir, special weapons cannot.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2016, 09:17:47 PM by dog_of_war »

Offline haunt

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To add to dog-of-war's advice, use them or trade fire with a Devastator unit, lol and see who comes out on top. Eldar Rangers or Pathfinders are still a nasty unit that is cheap and make sure you just use them as a pinch hitting unit not as a primary go to unit for the fight.
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