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Offline Big Boss

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Pick this list to shreds, if you would.
« on: July 21, 2006, 09:13:17 PM »
This is the list a friend of mine will be taking to the Chicago GT, he's looking for any help he can get with it, so please fire away. 

The Severskian Gaurd

Headquarters


Command Platoon
1. Heroic Senior Officer with carapace armor, refractor field, power fist and storm bolter
2. Commissar with power weapon, bolter, and carapace armor
3. 4 Guardsmen (1 with meltagun, 3 with lasguns)


Troops


Infantry Platoon
1. Command Squad with Junior officer with power weapon and bolter. and 4 guardsmen (1 with flamer, 3 with lasguns)
2. Commissar with power fist
3. Infantry Squad with flamer and heavy boler, and veteran sergeant with bolt pistol and CC weapon
4. Infantry Squad with flamer and heavy bolter, and veteran sergeant with bolt pistol and CC weapon
5. Infantry Squad with flamer and autocannon, and veteran sergeant with bolt pistol and CC weapon

Infantry Platooon
1. Command Squad with Junior officer and 4 guardsmen (1 with grenade launcher and 3 with lasguns)
2. Commissar with power weapon and bolter
3. Infantry Squad with grenade launcher and lascannon, and veteran sergeant with laspistol and CC weapon
4. Infantry Squad with grenade launcher and lascannon, and veteran sergeant with laspistol and CC weapon
5. Infantry Squad with grenade launcher and missile launcher, and veteran sergeant with laspistol and CC weapon

Elites


Stormtroopers
1. nine stormtroopers with 1 grenade launcher, 1 flamer, frag grenades and krak grenades
2. storm trooper sergeant with CC weapon, hellpistol, krak grenades and frag grenades
3. Chimera with heavy bolter, hull heavy bolter, extra armour, and track guards

Ratlings
1. six ratlings with sniper rifles

Fast Attack


Hellhound
1. Hellhound with extra armour, track guards, inferno cannon, and hull heavy bolter

Sentinels
1. 3 sentinels with lascannons

Heavy Support


Leman Russ Battle Tank
1. Leman Russ Battle Tank with battle cannon, hull lascannon, heavy bolter sponsons, and extra armour

Leman Russ Battle Tank
1. Leman Russ Battle Tank with battle cannon, hull lascannon, heavy bolter sponsons, and extra armour

Total: 1850 points
Models in army: 101

Thanks, any help will be appreciated, and he knows who to thank for this (you guys, obviously).
Space Marines: 2000 pts.
Eldar: 1000 pts.

Wood Elves: 3000 pts.

Offline Mechanised

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Re: Pick this list to shreds, if you would.
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2006, 10:14:21 PM »
Command Platoon
1. Heroic Senior Officer with carapace armor, refractor field, power fist and storm bolter
2. Commissar with power weapon, bolter, and carapace armor
3. 4 Guardsmen (1 with meltagun, 3 with lasguns)

Drop the Carapace Armor and Refractor field.  They're too expensive and really not worth their points.  I'd also recommend dropping the Storm Bolter and Power fist; you generally want to keep your HQ out of Line of Sight and provide Leadership bonuses to the rest of your troops.  In this regard, I'd recommend taking some of the points you gained and getting a Company Standard.  The Commissar's OK, but again, I'm not really a fan of tooling up your HQ that much for CQC.  Drop the Power Weapon and Carapace armor for him as well.  Drop the Meltagun and pick up some Plasma; if your HQ is close enough to the enemy that Melta would be benefitting you, it's likely already dead or you're screwed anyway.  Recap:

Drop all the Carapace, Power Weapons/Fists, Refractor Field, and Storm Bolters.  Add in a Company Standard, and maybe some Plasmaguns.

Troops


Infantry Platoon
1. Command Squad with Junior officer with power weapon and bolter. and 4 guardsmen (1 with flamer, 3 with lasguns)
2. Commissar with power fist
3. Infantry Squad with flamer and heavy boler, and veteran sergeant with bolt pistol and CC weapon
4. Infantry Squad with flamer and heavy bolter, and veteran sergeant with bolt pistol and CC weapon
5. Infantry Squad with flamer and autocannon, and veteran sergeant with bolt pistol and CC weapon

It seems this Command Squad is meant for Counter-assault.  I'd drop the Bolter, and add in a few more Flamers.  I'd also drop the Commissar, as he's not doing anything that your main HQ shouldn't already be doing; he's also a very large point sink.  If you're giving your Infantry Squads a Heavy Weapon, I don't think Flamers are a good idea.  Flamers require you to be *very* close to the enemy, something Heavy Weapons don't like.  Change the Flamers to Grenade Launchers or Plasmaguns.  I also don't see any need for the Veteran Sergeants; drop them and the Bolt Pistols/CCW's.

Infantry Platooon
1. Command Squad with Junior officer and 4 guardsmen (1 with grenade launcher and 3 with lasguns)
2. Commissar with power weapon and bolter
3. Infantry Squad with grenade launcher and lascannon, and veteran sergeant with laspistol and CC weapon
4. Infantry Squad with grenade launcher and lascannon, and veteran sergeant with laspistol and CC weapon
5. Infantry Squad with grenade launcher and missile launcher, and veteran sergeant with laspistol and CC weapon

Same as above, except I would change the Grenade Launchers to Plasmaguns.  You generally want to keep weapons together that fire at similiar targets; with a Grenade, you're not going to be hitting vehicles or 3+ saves that you are aiming for with those Lascannons and Missiles.  Also, generally you should aim to have more than 1 special weapon in a Command Squad; all of the guardsmen can have 'em, so why not use that?

Elites


Stormtroopers
1. nine stormtroopers with 1 grenade launcher, 1 flamer, frag grenades and krak grenades
2. storm trooper sergeant with CC weapon, hellpistol, krak grenades and frag grenades
3. Chimera with heavy bolter, hull heavy bolter, extra armour, and track guards

Mixing a Grenade Launcher and a Flamer seems odd to me.  Also, I don't think grenades would be that useful as you probably don't want these guys in an assault.  I'd put a Multilaser on the Chimera turret, as it's one of the few chances you get to use it and it's an amazing weapon.

Ratlings
1. six ratlings with sniper rifles

One of the few things I don't find off with this list.  Perhaps add a few more with all the points you're saving.

Fast Attack


Hellhound
1. Hellhound with extra armour, track guards, inferno cannon, and hull heavy bolter

Sentinels
1. 3 sentinels with lascannons

I'm leery on the Extra Armor and Track Guards for your Hellhound and Chimera, but if you want them, go nuts.  I'm also not sure on the Sentinels with Lascannons; I'd be more likely to put them into a Support Squad for your HQ, but that's personal taste.  I'd recommend at least splitting the Sentinels up into 3 separate squads (one as an HQ attachment, and two as Fast Attack choices).

Heavy Support


Leman Russ Battle Tank
1. Leman Russ Battle Tank with battle cannon, hull lascannon, heavy bolter sponsons, and extra armour

Leman Russ Battle Tank
1. Leman Russ Battle Tank with battle cannon, hull lascannon, heavy bolter sponsons, and extra armour

These seem OK, except for the Extra Armor.  Again, your choice.

Now, I've said to drop a lot of things I thought were unnecessary.  You could try using the extra points to split your 2 Platoons of 3 squads into 3 platoons of 2 squads, as well as giving your Command Squads a bit more oomph in the Special weapons department.
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Offline Aden

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Re: Pick this list to shreds, if you would.
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2006, 12:47:44 AM »
I think the Command Platoon should keep it's counter-charge role, otherwise there will be need for a squid of Rough Riders or Ogryns.
Drop the stormbolter and replace with a pistol to make best use of the expensive powerfist. Get rid of refractor field, carapace armour and replace bolter with a pistol. Replace the meltagun with a flamer, and get a standard bearer.

For the troops, get rid of the flamers, or even better get rid of the hvy weapons and keep the flamers. And rid yourself of those seargents.

If you're going to leave a squaad free of a heavy weapon make it an infantry squad and not a command squad. One of your lascannons would do much better with the JO, as it frees up one of your infantry squads to run around grenading/lasgunning things.

Those weapons on the storm troopers are very iffy. The grenade launcher isn't much use because the squad has a chimera to bring them in close, so it's range and mobility are not needed. Replace these special weapons with plasmaguns, they will do so much more damage when they embark in rapidfire range. Also, buy the vet sarge a bolter, he has no need for his pistol and CCW.

As for the three sentinels with lascannons, just don't. Lascannons attract lots of fire, and when you have three of them on AV10 open topped, in the same squad, anything with a few heavy weapons can easily fire at them and make 150 victory points. Seperate them all into different squads. In fact I don't think you need three. Two will be enough mobile lascannons. Remember to split them into two fast attack choices.

As for your LRBT's, I say you keep the extra armour, and swap the hull lascannons for Hvy Bolters. That way you have mobile tanks instead of sitty-shooty ones. You have the rest of your army to sit and shoot, I think these russes would be better mobile.

Oh, and for the Hellhound, smoke launchers are much better than both the current upgrades you have. They're cheaper too. The hellhound is a cheap vehicle, so it's a waste upgrading it much. I'd say get rid of the track guards and maybe the extra armour and just give it smokes.


Offline CheeseThief

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Re: Pick this list to shreds, if you would.
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2006, 12:48:13 AM »
Quote
Command Platoon
1. Heroic Senior Officer with carapace armor, refractor field, power fist and storm bolter
2. Commissar with power weapon, bolter, and carapace armor
3. 4 Guardsmen (1 with meltagun, 3 with lasguns)
Characters are very much too expencive, drop the Carapace on both of them, and the Refractor Field on the Officer but upgrade the Commissar from a Power Weapon to a Power Fist. On the next ticket throw out the Melta Gun and give the squad four flamers for a very good counter assault squad.

On the Flip side drop every piece of wargear and give the squad a Standard Bearer to give everyone around him re-rollable leadership ten.

Since you have no Honourifica in your army, concider a Junior Officer with a Honorifica as your commander for a Heroic Officer at a Discount price.

Quote
Infantry Platoon
1. Command Squad with Junior officer with power weapon and bolter. and 4 guardsmen (1 with flamer, 3 with lasguns)
2. Commissar with power fist
3. Infantry Squad with flamer and heavy boler, and veteran sergeant with bolt pistol and CC weapon
4. Infantry Squad with flamer and heavy bolter, and veteran sergeant with bolt pistol and CC weapon
5. Infantry Squad with flamer and autocannon, and veteran sergeant with bolt pistol and CC weapon

Infantry Platooon
1. Command Squad with Junior officer and 4 guardsmen (1 with grenade launcher and 3 with lasguns)
2. Commissar with power weapon and bolter
3. Infantry Squad with grenade launcher and lascannon, and veteran sergeant with laspistol and CC weapon
4. Infantry Squad with grenade launcher and lascannon, and veteran sergeant with laspistol and CC weapon
5. Infantry Squad with grenade launcher and missile launcher, and veteran sergeant with laspistol and CC weapon
Is there a reason for taking the Vet. Sergents because you presently have 3:1 Squads per Officer and that should allow you to keep them all in the command bubbles at all times, drop them for extra doodads. Mix Grenade Launchers with you Bolters and Autocannon as they can shoot at the same type of targets. Plasma Guns go well with Lascannons and the Missile Launcher is a bit of a toss up between the two, probably sliding in the direction of the Grenade Launcher so you can drop two templates on a single squad.

If the Commissars are there for Moral purposes, it would be cheaper to make a Vox network to span you whole army with a master Vox with the Heroic Senior Officer and his Commissar for Global leadership 10. If the Commissars are there for close combat ability then equip your Platoon HQ squads accordingly, either way put some more Special Weapons in, they are the cheapest way to get lots of them in your army.

Quote
Elites
Stormtroopers
1. nine stormtroopers with 1 grenade launcher, 1 flamer, frag grenades and krak grenades
2. storm trooper sergeant with CC weapon, hellpistol, krak grenades and frag grenades
3. Chimera with heavy bolter, hull heavy bolter, extra armour, and track guards
Mixing and matching is bad. I would suggest you give this squad Plasma guns all round, that would make this squad good at most things ranging from Grots for the tank and hell guns to Terminators from the plasma. Take the Multi-laser on the Chimera instead of a Bolter, it is more useful in more situations as it can hurt light tanks and is better against the very common MEQ armies.

Quote
Ratlings
1. six ratlings with sniper rifles
More is better but don't skimp on other things as their application I find pretty limited.

Quote
Fast Attack
Hellhound
1. Hellhound with extra armour, track guards, inferno cannon, and hull heavy bolter
Cannot go to wrong with this, if you need points for other things, drop the extras.

Quote
Sentinels
1. 3 sentinels with lascannons
Split these up into three seperate groups so that excess shots don't get carried over to the next when one is destroyed. One in each of your remaining Fast Attack choices and one attached to your command squad. They all start on the field no matter what unless you chose to deep strike them so there really isnt any down sides to doing this and only upsides.

Quote
Heavy Support
Leman Russ Battle Tank
1. Leman Russ Battle Tank with battle cannon, hull lascannon, heavy bolter sponsons, and extra armour

Leman Russ Battle Tank
1. Leman Russ Battle Tank with battle cannon, hull lascannon, heavy bolter sponsons, and extra armour
For the Price of a Leman Russ with a Hull Lascannon, you could get a Demolisher which is easily better at almost everything than a Leman Russ. The battle Cannon will be fired most of the time so the Lascannon is going to be useless most of the time. Also whatever you fire the lascannon at your bolters cannot hurt and what you fire the bolters at, the lascannon is almost useless. Take a Hull Bolter or Upgrade to a Demolisher and kit it out for some serious tank hunting duties.


-Edit-
To the Above:

Quote
If you're going to leave a squaad free of a heavy weapon make it an infantry squad and not a command squad. One of your lascannons would do much better with the JO, as it frees up one of your infantry squads to run around grenading/lasgunning things.
Hell no!  Infantry squad can soak more wounds than a HQ Squad thus making the heavy weapon lasting longer and you can equip the HQ Squad with 3 extra Grenade Launchers for Running around and Grenade Launchering things.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2006, 12:58:08 AM by CheeseThief »

Offline Aden

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Re: Pick this list to shreds, if you would.
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2006, 12:57:22 AM »
Quote
If you're going to leave a squaad free of a heavy weapon make it an infantry squad and not a command squad. One of your lascannons would do much better with the JO, as it frees up one of your infantry squads to run around grenading/lasgunning things.
Hell no!  Infantry squad can soak more wounds than a HQ Squad thus lasting longer and you can equip the HQ Squad with 3 extra Grenade Launchers for Running around and Grenade Launchering things.
Yes, that also works very nicely. But if points won't allow three or four grenade launchers then it would be better to leave an infantry squad free of a lascannon I say.

Offline Panos

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Re: Pick this list to shreds, if you would.
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2006, 05:43:17 AM »
First I would like to suggest that is bit dangerous create a new army when you go to Tournaments. No matter how good we tailor the army here, if someone doesn't have experience with this army (and I mean months of using it) he will lose from the early start. It's better to field an army someone play for month/years and feel confident with it, than start from scratch.

HQ : It's main purpose should be LD cover. Drop the excessive equipment.
(Carapace x2, Shield, Power Fist, Storm Bolter, Power weapon) and the meltagun.
Keep the Commissars Bolter (for the sake of 1p) and give one to the Commander too.
Use JO+Honorifica it will save 5p from there too. Get 2 Flamers, Standard & Master Vox. (LD10 is must).

HQ 150p  -27p

StormTroopers : Drop Flamer & GL. Get 2 Plasma & 1 Vox.

StormTroopers 125p   +11p

Chimera : As mentioned get the Multilaser. But I believe is bit expensive with those upgrades. 100p

Hellhound : Hmm, Smoke Launcher is must here. Regarding the other upgrades 15p at 1850 can be forgiven. +3p

LMBTs : Drop the Lascanons. Battle cannon should always hit. Get HB insteed. -20p

Infantry :
1st HQ : Drop Commissar. Get 2 more flamers & Vox. Cost 69p now (-43p).
2nd HQ : Drop Commissar. Drop the GL too, get 3 flamers, Vox & Power weapon for the JO (and bolter to stop crying because the other one has). Cost 69p (-25p).

Their use as you may imagine is "cover holes" in CC

Squads.
a) Move 1 Lascanon Squad to the 1st Platoon & 1 HB on it's place.

b) Even if Missile Launcher in theory is OK in practice the more you hit the better. Replace it with Autocannon.

c) Drop the Vet Serg in all the squads. Get Serg with Lasgun & Vox Caster. Total -9p

d) On the 2 HB & 2 AC (or ML)  squads the Assault weapon should be GL. Flamer isn't that good with Heavy weapons. On the other Hand your 2 AT Squads need PlasmaGuns. That will cost you +10p more.

Up to now we have already save 100p. Have LD10 army with hard hitting Squads & HQs.

We have Ratlings & Sentinels to sort out.

Sentinels, cost 55p each for AV10 open topped unit. They will attract fire power like anything else. (Easier to die than the Lascanon squads). Drop 1 of them & replace the other 2 with Multilaser or Autocannon. Ofc keep them in Separate units.

That will leave 165 - 175p.
Now there are the "Normal" way and the "Cheesy" way to spend the points. :)

Normal = 2 more squads with AC, GL & Vox.

Cheesy = drop the track guards  from the Chimera. And place a Demolisher with Lascanon & Plasma Cannons sponsors.  ::)

He he, I would like to see opponents faces when your friend field 3 Heavy Tanks, Hellhound (a class on  it's own), Chimera & 2 Walkers. And LD10 army.  ;D

« Last Edit: July 22, 2006, 05:46:16 AM by Panos »
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Offline Big Boss

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Re: Pick this list to shreds, if you would.
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2006, 05:24:01 PM »
I thank you for your suggestions, but due to time and supply constraints there's only so much he can change.  I'll post a reworked list later if he decides it's necessary.
Space Marines: 2000 pts.
Eldar: 1000 pts.

Wood Elves: 3000 pts.

 


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