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Offline Rhysk

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Re:What?
« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2002, 11:23:11 AM »
About the only thing I can concievablly see Mandrakes good for right now is one of two things...

1. Taking table quarters becuase they went a hid somewhere where they couldn't be seen... (Even the IG aren't that feeble.)

2. Tying up a devastator squad til something larger can get there to help... Instead of calling them mandrakes, they should have named them after locusts or something. They are basically annoying and they'll kill the plants if you leave them around long enough, but they aren't gonna do much more.

I don't see this whole crossfire thing working very well. To complicated to set that up. You can't rely on a tactic that complex to work on a regular basis.
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Offline Kabal of the Bleeding Sun

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Re:What?
« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2002, 11:28:34 AM »
Yeah taking quarters, but the reavers are good for that too, and more useful.  And as for tying up the devastator squad, reavers... or wyches from a raider.  Reavers would probably do some real damage and with the new rules the wyches are perfect for tying almost anything up, that is unless they destroy it... which is plenty cool too.

Offline Rhysk

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Re:What?
« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2002, 11:35:48 AM »
The only thing I was thinking is that they might be able to get into grips with the enemy first turn where as the Wyches and Reavers could get close but if they use a 24" move they wouldn't be able to charge. Since the Mandrakes start so close to the enemy then maybe, just maybe they could get to grips with the enemy first turn. I dunno, I have never used them so I could be talking outta my A** on this one.

Let's leave in at this.

Mandrakes -- the most effective strategy is to leave them on the peg board at your local hobby store and buy the wyches.
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Offline Kabal of the Bleeding Sun

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Re:What?
« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2002, 12:21:32 PM »
sounds like the best mandrake strategy to me.  Come to think of it.. .that is exactly the strategy I use, good to know it is a good strategy  ;)

Offline Rumblebelly

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Re:What?
« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2002, 04:06:32 PM »

It's encouraging to see our DE community has brains.  Mandrakes were not fixed by the update.
We can only hope they revisit their decision.

Rumble

Offline Rhysk

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Re:What?
« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2002, 04:25:03 PM »
Well of course we have brains, we choose DE didn't we?
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Offline Kabal of the Bleeding Sun

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Re:What?
« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2002, 04:46:56 PM »
Exactly what I was going to say rhysk, and I might have said it first if work hadn't distracted me lol.

Offline TheMightyPikachu

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Re:What?
« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2002, 07:43:42 PM »
make em 15pts
and that double str idea
that sound better?
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Offline Rhysk

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Re:What?
« Reply #28 on: February 21, 2002, 11:47:38 AM »
Yeah that's a start...

I was realy thinking about this last night. GW doesn't ussually make units with absolutley no purpose.. many units have like limited usefulness, but there is usaully some redeeming quality...

Mandrakes what are they good for?  It is true they bounce off space marines. Then again alot of things bounce of space marines...

If they let them deploy as infiltrators they would be alot better, If they could FoF while in "stealth mode" it would be better.

I'm still thinking, but I haven't come up with anything yet...
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Offline Tobab816

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Re:What?
« Reply #29 on: February 21, 2002, 12:15:22 PM »
Mandrakes arn't THAT bad.

1. The new saving rules has some SEVERE effects in jungle and Cityfights(more so in cityfights).

2. 1 mandrake squad is almost as good as 2 squads of warriors.
They can't be shot at while approaching so you will almost always get to his lines at full strenght
Second the fact that they have 3 possible markers means that he must treat every one of those markers as a squad of mandrakes and protect HWsquads etc.

3. They are(like all DE) awesome against low save troops.

4. Due to their special deployment rules they rock in Slaveraids.

5. They rock against Tau. 20 mandrakes can knock out 15 Tau in one turn if charging. And with their special deployment rules they will get to your enemies lines INTACT! Against Tau 20 mandrakes can be a VERY decisive unit.

You just have to learn that if you are going to play mandrakes you have to play like a DE, but more so.

First of. 1 Mandrake squad will never do, except against IG and Tau. You need two full squads to have good effect. Mob up on your enemies. Since you have 3 markers your enemy has 3 locations where he must worry that 20 warriors with a total of 60 attacks can appear and charge him.
Second you have to realise that the Mandrakes value isn't how many enemy they kill, but the lessening of enemy firepower they can cause when the enemy is redeploying to cope with the threat.
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+++Excerpt from Last Chaos/Space marine game, commentator: Inquisitor Khalheed "The Purgator" Qhor, Ex-Deathball player+++

Chaos vs Space Marine grudgematch today ended 23-19 when Brother Grazieel decimated the chaos team with a heavy bolter.

Afterwards the Chaos Coach Zhuriel the Damned stated "If we weren't ideologically in favor of cheating we'd complain about this""
+++End of transmission+++

Offline Rhysk

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Re:What?
« Reply #30 on: February 21, 2002, 12:53:36 PM »
Ok Tob, I can see where you are going with that. It has merit. Especially the part about making it to combat unmolested...

One question, if you take two squads isn't it six markers? 3 for each unit?
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Offline Tobab816

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Re:What?
« Reply #31 on: February 21, 2002, 12:56:31 PM »
Rhysk: Yeah, but since I want them to be able to appear with 20 units at the same time I have the markers advance roughly in pairs.
Deathball, the new game of bloody basketball, 40k style!

+++Excerpt from Last Chaos/Space marine game, commentator: Inquisitor Khalheed "The Purgator" Qhor, Ex-Deathball player+++

Chaos vs Space Marine grudgematch today ended 23-19 when Brother Grazieel decimated the chaos team with a heavy bolter.

Afterwards the Chaos Coach Zhuriel the Damned stated "If we weren't ideologically in favor of cheating we'd complain about this""
+++End of transmission+++

Offline Rhysk

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Re:What?
« Reply #32 on: February 21, 2002, 01:03:25 PM »
Gothca what about like this?


        x         x       x
 6" /    \     /   \   /   \
    o      o  o    o o    o

Ge the general Idea? It's hard to demonstrate with ASCII graphics...
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Offline Karakth

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Re:What?
« Reply #33 on: February 21, 2002, 01:54:57 PM »
I like the sound of 60 attacks....   ;)
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Offline Tobab816

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Re:What?
« Reply #34 on: February 21, 2002, 02:06:23 PM »
Well, it isn't anything I would go up against marines with since of those 60 attacks only 30 hits, 10 wounds and 3-4 kills.
Then the marines return fire and 20 marines gets 20 attack of which 10 hits, 6-7 wounds and 4 kills. Bad since the Mandrakes had the charge.

On the other hand against Tau it would be something like 40 hits, 20 wounds and 10 kills. And against the IG it would be roughtly 13-15 kills.
Deathball, the new game of bloody basketball, 40k style!

+++Excerpt from Last Chaos/Space marine game, commentator: Inquisitor Khalheed "The Purgator" Qhor, Ex-Deathball player+++

Chaos vs Space Marine grudgematch today ended 23-19 when Brother Grazieel decimated the chaos team with a heavy bolter.

Afterwards the Chaos Coach Zhuriel the Damned stated "If we weren't ideologically in favor of cheating we'd complain about this""
+++End of transmission+++

Offline Karakth

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Re:What?
« Reply #35 on: February 21, 2002, 02:08:58 PM »
So it's really all down to luck...
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Offline Tekno

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Re:What?
« Reply #36 on: February 21, 2002, 04:36:39 PM »
There was a previous suggestion of having 20 mandrakes sliding up the field with six little markers..... I already have a problem with spending 300 points and 2 elite slots for them, but lets just say you were able to get them into hand to hand...

So your in hand to hand... You just charged... Now what?  Against space marines you might get 3, 4 if your lucky.....  How many do you think their retaliation will take?  

Get wyches, get warriors, sometimes even get incubi....  But never get mandrakes.  You pay 15 points(as much as a space marine!)  All you get in return is a low toughness, low save, low power unit.  

My solution would be either to raise their cost and give them poisoned blades(that would be nasty!  but possibly a bit too powerful)  or perhaps give their claw a +1 str so that they can wound something more than a gretchin.

Offline Trunkhead

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Re:What?
« Reply #37 on: February 21, 2002, 07:11:44 PM »
Tobab - I think you were onto something but dismissed it a little too quickly.

Your model is a little off.  Okay you have 20 mandrakes that only kill 4 Marines.  But your not going to lose as many as you say in return...why?  Well for one i've never seen a squad of 20 Marines, they come in packs of 10. So really your math should look like this. 10 Marines get 10 attacks, 5 hits, 3-4 wound, and 2-3 Kill.  Well dang, the Mandrakes just won combat.  Meaning the space marines could easily break (17 mandrakes vs. 7 Marines - that's 2 to 1 and you may get lucky and get 3 to 1) and if we pursue, combat gets moved back another 2-12" (moving space marines backwards is always good). At the least you'd tie up a very nasty Marine unit for a good turn or two.
And it'd be even more beneficial if it was a devestator squad you were going against.

dang, maybe i'll proxy some of these guys to see if this'll work.  I've just decieded vs. fielding my grotesques w/ Haemonculi to shield the Talos.  Now i'm using the Talos to protect the Warrior mobs, so i just freed up around 200 pts......... I think this idea has merit
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Offline Tekno

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Re:What?
« Reply #38 on: February 21, 2002, 09:13:59 PM »
It does sound pretty tempting doesn't it?  Here are a few things I might consider first.....  

1.) You would need to buy 2 squads, as mandrakes are 5-10 per squad

2.) Each squad takes up an elite choice

Against Imperial guard these guys could be pretty useful.  Against space marines however, I don't like the odds.  Why spend 200 on mandrakes to tie up a squad when you can get scourges for that much and take out a squad......  At any rate, let us know how they do!  :)

Offline Rumblebelly

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Re:What?
« Reply #39 on: February 22, 2002, 12:31:09 AM »
And lets face it all... there are FAR more Marine players than anything out there because they come in so many varieties.  Design an army that wacks Space Marines and you stand a good chance at winning most of your games.

Rumble

 


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