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Author Topic: Which Phoenix Lord Do You Think Is the Most Effective and Why?  (Read 3258 times)

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Offline Ibushi

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Which Phoenix Lord Do You Think Is the Most Effective and Why?
« on: September 1, 2015, 03:45:18 PM »
Thanks Dread.

Yeah part of me thinks that GW does a clever thing in not releasing all of the fluff or rules, as it keeps the imagination active, and is more tantalizing than just having some janky rules which are probably not very good -- like most of the PLs.

Of the current Lords, the only one that strikes me as reasonably costed is Baharroth, who I think is the cheapest?

But the one that catches my fancy the most is Jain Zar, it's just really hard to justify the hefty price tag, as you still need another HQ for psychic buffs and whatnot.

The thought of her crazy negative buffs to the enemy in combat seem to really synchronize with some Eldar CC units though, like a wraithknight with glaive squaring off against a bloodthirster, bringing down his WS, I, etc., or a scorpion exarch with claw in a challenge with pretty much anyone, getting absurd extra attacks for being In 6 vs. In 1. Hah. Not very points efficient though.

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Offline Grizzlykin

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Re: Which Phoenix Lord Do You Think Is the Most Effective and Why?
« Reply #1 on: September 1, 2015, 06:38:27 PM »
Well i've seen a battle report rescently whee jain zar just went rampage with a squad of banshee, they basicly can run for 7 inch, for the first turn you can be in position to charge the turn after + your shuricen pistol shot on turn one it's freakin cool i think.

For the unexisting phoenix lord to me it just feels like gw saying we can't make anything good with this guy's so you community will have to provide yourself with the one we didn't create because we couldn't.
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Offline Ibushi

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Re: Which Phoenix Lord Do You Think Is the Most Effective and Why?
« Reply #2 on: September 1, 2015, 10:42:16 PM »
That battle report sounds really cool Grizzly, is there a link?
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Offline Grizzlykin

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Re: Which Phoenix Lord Do You Think Is the Most Effective and Why?
« Reply #3 on: September 2, 2015, 05:58:54 AM »
https://youtu.be/xhoAKvqzVfI

There you go :D I think that his list just isnpired what i'm going to do with mine from now on ^^
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Offline Lyonic

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Re: Which Phoenix Lord Do You Think Is the Most Effective and Why?
« Reply #4 on: September 2, 2015, 07:30:16 PM »
Actually, they run 12 inch because of 3" from arobatic and 3" from jain zara warlord trait. Giving you 12 inch movement if u take them as part of a guardian host. Its insane!

Offline Ibushi

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Re: Which Phoenix Lord Do You Think Is the Most Effective and Why?
« Reply #5 on: September 2, 2015, 08:19:40 PM »
That was a very well-made batrep, I liked it a lot, thanks Grizz!

The Banshees performed basically how I would expect -- as extra wounds for Jain Zar, who then got bogged down in bodies.

Really liked the Eldar list, it looked like a lot of fun to play for a friendly game!
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Re: Which Phoenix Lord Do You Think Is the Most Effective and Why?
« Reply #6 on: September 3, 2015, 02:57:06 AM »
I've split this from the Warp Spider Phoenix Lord topic to facilitate wider discussion.
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Offline Lyonic

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Re: Which Phoenix Lord Do You Think Is the Most Effective and Why?
« Reply #7 on: September 3, 2015, 03:39:13 AM »
I would say fuegan os pretty boss. Stick him with a unit of wraithblades and he can split fire onto a tank or single model with his pike. He has the str, the AP1 weapon and is the only PL with another save after armour.

Offline Grizzlykin

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Re: Which Phoenix Lord Do You Think Is the Most Effective and Why?
« Reply #8 on: September 3, 2015, 04:49:39 AM »
Thank you iris ^^

Well i was doing the math yesterday with jain zar, in a warhost because i want to try it, you can run move 18 first turn. Wich allow to be anywhere you need to be to charge next turn. That's just insane if you ask me, that would have been ridculous if they could charge after that ><

Ah for the best phoenix lord well that's a hard question, i kinda like jain zar and maugan ra, the new weapon they made for him make him kinda cool in my opinion. But well my heart will nearly always go back to karandras as it is the phoenix lord of the stricking scorpion wich is a baddass unit even if i never fielded any :D
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Offline Fenris

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Re: Which Phoenix Lord Do You Think Is the Most Effective and Why?
« Reply #9 on: September 3, 2015, 08:06:00 AM »
Karandras, is the best PL, there is not really much contest. He takes a unit of his own aspect and gets them where they should be.

Jain Zar, is probably number 2 as she grants the banshees great mobility, however they should not be running, they should be charging.

Asurmen is number 3 on my list, by manipulating the warlord traits for a chance of fate's messenger, and his invulnerable save he is the most durable PL, and he can bite back in melee.

Baharroth is the cheapest one his "flashbang" and hit&run is why he is quite useful, he also counts as the 6th model for the grenade pack.

Maugan Ra, while his new weapon is very cool, it's still not much more effective than 2 scatterbikes. Problem is he doesn't help his own aspect much, he brings nightgoggles and some daemon cursing.

Fuegan, while he has his multimelta and sort of a non-unwieldy powerfist, FNP allows him to stick around a little longer, but he's still not doing much.
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Offline dog_of_war

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Re: Which Phoenix Lord Do You Think Is the Most Effective and Why?
« Reply #10 on: September 3, 2015, 08:28:44 AM »
Although it all depends on what role you need played in your army, I agree with Fenris's ordering of the Phoenix Lords. Karandras best fills in the gap of what a typical eldar unit is missing. He's durable, a beast in close combat, and has the most useful unit bonuses. I remember a White Dwarf article years back where they had 40k characters fight gladiator style and the one that landed on top and was our Scorpion Phoenix Lord. Now that was still 5th edition, but I think he'd still rank with the best of them, if another tournament of heroes took place.

Offline Lyonic

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Re: Which Phoenix Lord Do You Think Is the Most Effective and Why?
« Reply #11 on: September 3, 2015, 10:41:06 AM »
Fuegan is the only unit in the eldar codex at HQ level who could kill a tank solo.

having that in any of the eldar units bar firedragons, combined with split fire is huge. And again, he has FNP. IM gna do a math hammer about phoenix lord potential after this weekend that should show what i mean.. I hope :P
« Last Edit: September 3, 2015, 10:43:36 AM by Lyonic »

Offline dog_of_war

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Re: Which Phoenix Lord Do You Think Is the Most Effective and Why?
« Reply #12 on: September 3, 2015, 09:25:38 PM »
Totally agree that Fuegan has a greater potential to kill a tank with his axe's boost to his strength, armourbane and his re-roll from crackshot, not to mention his own firepike's shooting attack. I know how lethal armourbane can be because I've faced Kharn recently in a Khorne list and he smoked some of my armour without even blinking. While he's the best HQ at it in the Eldar codex, I don't think it's fair to say he's the only one that can do it. Karandaras has a pretty good chance in close combat and even Maugan Ra has a chance in either close combat or shooting. He's still a beast though, I'll give you that and I've definitely thought about using him myself.

Offline DCannon ForLife

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Re: Which Phoenix Lord Do You Think Is the Most Effective and Why?
« Reply #13 on: September 3, 2015, 10:00:41 PM »
I own an Asurmen model. Still bare pewter. Never played him, not in the 4th ed. codex, the 6th ed. codex, or the 7th ed. codex. Contemplated doing him up as a statue more than once. Forget that guy.

Bahararara is definitely worth his points, so wins as most effective in terms of value per point.

Ultimately though, my fiery heart belongs to Fuegan.

Offline Hannibal.Lictor

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Re: Which Phoenix Lord Do You Think Is the Most Effective and Why?
« Reply #14 on: September 4, 2015, 03:22:35 AM »
Jain Zar is easily the best challenge bot there is. Sadly, banshees are not her best accompanyment. For pure win, put her in with grots. That being said, get her a giant meat grinder of a unit that has a big foot print and aim for the other guys beatstick and nullify him. Firsty you go ahead and spend that attack to emasculate the dude by auto disarming him, then they are barefisting it at -5 Int and WS. So in the end you are hitting on fives for the most part and she is hitting on 3s and breaking your armor save.

Sure she wont get her extra run, but do the grotesquerie and have her in the unit with the WWP heamoculus and profit with fearless nutcrackers.

Offline Grizzlykin

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Re: Which Phoenix Lord Do You Think Is the Most Effective and Why?
« Reply #15 on: September 4, 2015, 04:59:17 AM »
Just saying that fuegan should go down in point just because he is similar to the avatar in his shooting phase and cc capabilities but is ranked 25 point above while being overall, less potent. Yes there is the 2+ and the strenght increase but he is so much less powerfull in cc it's just ridiculous, i mean the avatar cc power is absurd and the aura effect he gives is just as ridiculous. I know it's not a hq anymore and his not a phoenix lord but just leaving this here, if you want AT you better run him than fuegan in my opinion.

Well loking at all the phoenix lord karandras surely take the cake as the best phoenix lord, yet i can't help but liking jain sar in this edition, just for the cheeze it provide with speed and anti special weapon.
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Offline Lyonic

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Re: Which Phoenix Lord Do You Think Is the Most Effective and Why?
« Reply #16 on: September 4, 2015, 05:22:06 AM »
Karandras cant really kill a14. And when i talk about vehicles in talking about a14. Eldar have a filthy amount of s6 to deal with a12. The reason fuegan in cc is better than the avatar is simply because you can stick him in a unit to soak up wounds. I mean stick fuegan in these scenarios...

you take 10 scorpions with all the trimmings and stick in karandras. Then a dreadnaught charges you. Only karandras can hurt him and then very weakly (talking bout strng armour dreadnauts)

Now you take fuegan and that dreadnaught is dead.

take 10 scorpions and K vs a land raider.
only K can glance on a 6 to wound. Fuegan will probably kill it.

lets say there is a vehicle with troops on 1 hp, you can shoot it with fuegan then with shoot the unit that comes out with scorpions and charge them. Basically the point is. If you want to kill TEQ with K, he should be in with wraithblades not scorpions.

idk, i guess i just feel being able to make 2 saves, then if you fail one.. He gets stronger...

 


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