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Offline Scars

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Communism: A Tour
« on: April 7, 2005, 03:53:52 AM »
Communism is not clearly defined or simple. So I wrote this breif guide to the main forms of Communism existing today, I'll answer any questions you want etc. However, this is not an arguement about the viability of Communism, this is a thread about trying to inform people on the various factions and forms in the Communist movement.....

Orthodox Marxism
Key Thinkers: Marx, Engels
Description:
The Orthodox Marxist's main feature is that they reject Leninism and the vanguard of the
Proletariat, instead looking solely at Marx's original writings and stating that the revolution
will be a spontaneous affair (along the lines of the Paris Commune being set up) and thus there
is no need for a Revolutionary party. Their ideas about society also flow from the writings of
Marx and Engels, dreaming of a world with no money, no wages, no government, no leaders, etc.
Because of their opposition to Leninism they do not take part in any organisation, most of their
actions being based around 'educating the masses' while sitting and waiting for the revolution to,
spontaneously, happen. Parties are generally small and highly sectarian.
Areas of Operation: Industrial, western nations. Confined mainly to Europe and the USA.
Size of global movement: Tiny (Thousands)
Examples: World Communist Movement (with branches in New Zealand, Britain and the US..I believe)

Leninism:
Key Thinkers: Marx, Engels, Lenin
Description:
Leninism develops Marxism into not so much a social and economic theory, but a fully fledged
political ideology incorporating a key methodology to take power. The most important factor
of Leninism is the 'Vanguard' theory, which states that there must be a unified revolutionary
party of so called 'full time revolutionaries' to spear head and lead the workers revolution.
It also states that revolution can be made (clashing with the Orthodox Marxists) and that
revolution can be made in countries that have not experienced a full bourgeois revolution
(ala Russia, 1917). According to Leninist practice power is to be taken by way of armed
struggle against the state (not full blown war) and then the revolution is to be 'exported'
through military means i.e. the Communist forces aiding other Communist Revolutions with
supplies and troops. There are very few 'true' Leninist parties left in the world, most
parties now have adopted other ideologies, but everything flows back to Leninism.
Areas of Operation: Scattered across the globe, but concentrated in Europe, the USA and Balkans.
Size of Global Movement: Surprisingly small
Examples: A few 'Trotskite' parties adhere to strict Leninism, a few Russian parties.

Stalinism (often called 'Marxist-Leninism' by Stalinists):
Key Thinkers: Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin.
Description:
Stalinism, contrary to popular opinion, is simply an extension of Leninist thought. Stalinism
is virtually exactly the same as Leninism, with several differences. Firstly Stalinism supports
'Socialism in One Country' which means that the focus should be on building Communism in each
country as opposed to spreading it through military means, which was no longer viable by the
1930s. Stalinism also states that there must be active antagonism between classes (as opposed
to simply fighting in struggles that already exist) so as to further the achievements of the
class struggle. Stalinism also tends to stress the importance of heavy industry as well as
collectivisation of agriculture.
Areas of Operation: Europe, particularly Eastern Europe. Has a strong following in the USA too.
Size of Global Movement: Large (Millions)
Examples: Russian Communist Workers' Party - Revolutionary Party of Communists, Communist Party
Alliance (Britain)

Trotskyism (Occasionally called Bolshevik-Leninism)
Key Thinkers: Marx, Engels, Lenin, Trotsky
Description:
Trotskyism bases itself on Leninism, and in most respects is the same. However it stresses the
importance of spreading the revolution by way of arms and internationalism as well as claiming
that Communism cannot be built without a world revolution (that is, you cannot create Communism
in isolation). Trotskyites tend to be very anti-intellectual (despite most of them being of
middle class background and Trotsky himself being a well off, educated Jewish man) believing
that only the unskilled workers have revolutionary potential. Trotskyite parties tend to be
fairly small and sectarian, splitting often, but there are many of them. Often take a leading
role in student and anti-war activism. Trotskite parties often make up the bulk of the
Communist movement in highly developed capitalist nations (for example, Britain, New Zealand etc)
Are constantly trying to form a new international, in fact there are about 20 completely separate
4th/5th internationals at the moment, all of which bitterly hate each other.
Areas of Operation: The west, scatterings in South America.
Size of Global Movement: Moderate (Hundreds of thousands)
Examples: Communist League (branches all over the world), Communist Workers Party (New Zealand).

Maoism (Also known as Marxist-Leninist-Maoism. Maoists often call themselves Marxist-Leninists)
Key Thinkers: Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin, Mao
Description:
Maoism is, in many ways, an extension of Stalinism but with many key modifications. Firstly
Maoism states that the revolution can be made by peasants, that they have the same revolutionary
potential as the urban proletariat (this goes against Marx who once called peasants "parasites").
Secondly, Maoism says that everyone can be part of the Revolution regardless of their background,
as in Maoism is a mass movement that transcends class boundaries, instead anyone who agreed and
was willing to fight for Maoism would be allowed to join the movement. Thirdly, Maoism clearly
states that the revolution will be won by way of a peoples war, that is to say mobilising the
masses in a war against the state using the methodology laid down by Mao (a peoples, or
protracted war). Forthly Maoism states that contridictions between the masses continue during Socialism, only disapearing when Communism is instituted. Maoism stresses the need for mass mobilisation, to get everybody involved in
building Communism instead of just leaving it to a smaller group of revolutionaries
(ala Leninism).
Areas of Operation: Mainly Asia.
Size of Global Movement: massive (many millions)
Examples: Communist Party of Nepal (Maoist), Communist Party of India (Maoist).

Anti-Revisionism (most anti-revisionists call themselves Marxist-Leninists):
Key Thinkers: Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin, Hoxha, Kim Il Sung.
Description:
Anti-Revisionism is not a defined or unified ideology, so these are more generalisations than
anything. Anti-Revisionism indicates a rejection of Khrushchev's 'secret speech' and an
incredibly hardline approach to Communism. They generally adopt a Stalinist model as their basis,
but often modify it to incorporate nationalists and/or self reliant ideas. They tend to be
very aggressive and sectarian, most holding up Stalin as their champion even more than Stalinists!
Many Anti-Revisionists support the DPRK (North Korea) and it's not uncommon for Anti-Revisionist
parties to have links with the Korean Workers Party (ruling party of North Korea).
Areas of operation: USA and Eastern Europe. Some in Europe.
Size of Global Movement: Small (thousands)
Examples: Communist Party of Canada (Marxist-Leninist) (aka Marxist-Leninist Party of Canada),
U.S. Marxist-Leninist Organisation.

Hoxhaism:
Key Thinkers: Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin, Hoxha
Description:
Hoxhaism is, possibly, the most hardline of all the Communist strains. It is essentially
Anti-Revisionism, but based solely around the writings of the late Enver Hoxha (Said Hodz-ya).
This stresses self reliance, nationalism (to almost xenophobic extremes), as well as arguing
for equal rights for nations of all sizes and more constructive things like UN reform and for
countries to be non-aligned and free of foreign influence. Often they worship Hoxha as an almost
saintly figure, which keeps in line with the Albanian propaganda of the time (he was the head of
Albania). Hoxhaism also incorporates certain aspects of Maoism, for instance mass involvement,
but with a more traditional Leninist 'vanguard' to lead them.
Areas of operation: Europe, particularly Eastern Europe and Albania
Size of Global movement: Small (thousands), most in Albania.
Examples: Communist Party of Albania, Workers Communist Party (Denmark)

Juche:
Key thinkers: Kim Il Sung, Kim Jong Il's Ghost Writers
Description:
Juche is and isn't a form of Communism. According to the dogma the revolution belongs to the
people and the people must be lead by a great leader, in the words of Kim Il Sung:
"The leader is the brain to the body of the people, and that the Korean Workers' Party is,
in turn, the nervous system that communicates with the brain on behalf of the people."
This effectively means that Juche is an autocratic monarchy that uses Socialism, not divine right,
as a justification for their actions. Juche also calls for self sufficiency, as well as as little
foreign aid and involvement as possible. It is almost religious in nature, Kim Il Sung having
been turned into a divine figure and much Juche propaganda is written in almost biblical fashion.
Areas of Operation: North Korea, smatterings in the west.
Size of Global movement: Tiny (Thousands. However there will be many party members in the DPRK,
but this does not indicate ideology)
Examples: Korean Workers Party, Juche Study Groups across the world (more for propaganda purposes
than any sort of study)
« Last Edit: November 6, 2008, 12:44:25 PM by Doktor Rummy »
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Offline Captain Leonidas

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Re: Communism: A Tour
« Reply #1 on: April 7, 2005, 05:00:29 AM »
Ahhhh. Educational guide from our foremost red comrade, Scars!

Hmmm But I see only few of the original strains ? Perhaps should include a few other types like socialism labelled communism or other left aligned-communist related ideologies like Eurocommunism etc.

I don't see my beloved Anarcho-communism here.... :'(
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Offline Tubsy McOwnage

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Re: Communism: A Tour
« Reply #2 on: April 7, 2005, 11:12:53 PM »
hey is there a communist party in australia right now? sorry, im not old enough to vote yet so i dont know.

i dunno, Tubsy McOwnage
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Offline Captain Leonidas

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Re: Communism: A Tour
« Reply #3 on: April 8, 2005, 12:29:32 AM »
hey is there a communist party in australia right now? sorry, im not old enough to vote yet so i dont know.

i dunno, Tubsy McOwnage

I think it is quite hard for 'communist' party to simply win votes and get seats in the government, since the ruling party would most of the time never let it happen. That is why the revolution is needed anyway.
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Offline Scars

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Re: Communism: A Tour
« Reply #4 on: April 8, 2005, 01:36:24 AM »
hey is there a communist party in australia right now? sorry, im not old enough to vote yet so i dont know.

i dunno, Tubsy McOwnage

There are numerous Communist parties in Australia:
http://www.broadleft.org/au.htm

The Communist Party of Australia isn't a Communist party, it's more a militant Socialist party.
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Offline Brother Frag

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Re: Communism: A Tour
« Reply #5 on: April 8, 2005, 03:09:24 AM »
I'm Australian and these commies arent welcome,

we hate em here, MORE than the majority of aussies would take a very harsh resentment to them.

Take your communist idealogy and go somewhere else,

go ahead and flame me, im not even going to bother responding, infact i just wasted 5 minutes of my life looking at this rubbish
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Offline Tubsy McOwnage

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Re: Communism: A Tour
« Reply #6 on: April 8, 2005, 03:11:23 AM »
where the f*ck are you getting this load of bullsh*t from?!
you are obviousy an EXTREMELY ignorant and bigotted person and an insult to anything positive that australian culture has going for it.
(sorry Rasmus, but i really think its necessary this time)

Tubsy
« Last Edit: April 8, 2005, 03:13:46 AM by Tubsy McOwnage »
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Offline Captain Leonidas

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Re: Communism: A Tour
« Reply #7 on: April 8, 2005, 04:04:51 AM »
im not even going to bother responding, infact i just wasted 5 minutes of my life looking at this rubbish

You can take your rant elsewhere. This is not the board for it. Here we respect everyone, left,right, imperialist,capitalist,socialist,liberal,conservative,communist. We don't respect only bigotry.

@Scars

According to your judgement, according to the number of followers, effectiveness of doctrine, and public support, which of the communist strains you have mentioned would be more successful/dominant ? We all know Mao is a dominant current one, but I am talking here if the revolution is happening. I was thinking Trotkysm and Maoism could have been dominant one, and it appeals even those who are not truly communist but are left aligned.
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Offline Tubsy McOwnage

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Re: Communism: A Tour
« Reply #8 on: April 8, 2005, 04:17:13 AM »
im not even going to bother responding, infact i just wasted 5 minutes of my life looking at this rubbish

You can take your rant elsewhere. This is not the board for it. Here we respect everyone, left,right, imperialist,capitalist,socialist,liberal,conservative,communist. We don't respect only bigotry.

@Scars

According to your judgement, according to the number of followers, effectiveness of doctrine, and public support, which of the communist strains you have mentioned would be more successful/dominant ? We all know Mao is a dominant current one, but I am talking here if the revolution is happening. I was thinking Trotkysm and Maoism could have been dominant one, and it appeals even those who are not truly communist but are left aligned.
HEAR! HEAR!
i only wish i could have put it in that way, i could have avoided Rasmus' attention...
seriously though, even though i am a supporter of communism, i dont actually believe that the theory is possible in practice. its just human nature to eventually corrupt yourself. :-\

i dunno, Tubsy McOwnage
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Offline Captain Leonidas

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Re: Communism: A Tour
« Reply #9 on: April 8, 2005, 04:24:53 AM »

seriously though, even though i am a supporter of communism, i dont actually believe that the theory is possible in practice. its just human nature to eventually corrupt yourself. :-\


Hmmm then you are a socialist ? thinking that money and capital production could still succeed but with more social justice oriented goals rather than widespread revolution ?
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Offline Tubsy McOwnage

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Re: Communism: A Tour
« Reply #10 on: April 8, 2005, 04:37:16 AM »
yeah i guess if thats what you want to call me. ;D
but i never serously studied socialism so i dont really conside rmyself a socialist.

i dunno, Tubsy McOwnage
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Offline Captain Leonidas

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Re: Communism: A Tour
« Reply #11 on: April 8, 2005, 12:57:39 PM »
Ok, I decided to add on Scars list of communism tour de force. But i will use links. I will regurgitate my thoughts in the few days onwards.

On Anarchism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchist

On Anarcho-communism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-Communism

On Anarcho-syndicalism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-syndicalism

On Libertarian Socialist
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism

Additional info to aid Scars' info on communism and all its strains. Contains sub links to separate communism strains and sub links to big communist organizations worldwide.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism

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Offline lemonwackyhello

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Re: Communism: A Tour
« Reply #12 on: April 9, 2005, 10:35:49 PM »
Communism was and is a pefect idea. But humans aren't perfect. Some people just got greedy.

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Re: Communism: A Tour
« Reply #13 on: April 9, 2005, 10:48:28 PM »
To answer tubsiy's question on a broader scale. I've read about Communist parties all over the world, but in democratic elections they have so little followers in those countries that they don't have people running for president, or whatever.
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Re: Communism: A Tour
« Reply #14 on: April 9, 2005, 10:56:41 PM »
I'm Australian and these commies arent welcome,

we hate em here, MORE than the majority of aussies would take a very harsh resentment to them.

Take your communist idealogy and go somewhere else,

go ahead and flame me, im not even going to bother responding, infact i just wasted 5 minutes of my life looking at this rubbish

This is a discussion board- not a flame board.

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Offline Scars

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Re: Communism: A Tour
« Reply #15 on: April 9, 2005, 11:41:28 PM »
To answer tubsiy's question on a broader scale. I've read about Communist parties all over the world, but in democratic elections they have so little followers in those countries that they don't have people running for president, or whatever.

Actually Communists have been elected in many countries, to both power and parliament.
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Re: Communism: A Tour
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2005, 12:08:00 AM »
Actually Communists have been elected in many countries, to both power and parliament.

That is quite right. The Indonesian Communist Party tried revolution in 1948 and didn't work very well so they tried legally and setting up grassroots organizations islandwide appealing to all classes in society; farmers, students, women, and even traders. It worked perfectly and had been either runner up or big three parties elected to both parliament and government seat. The popularity of the PKI horrified their more Western oriented neighbours like Federation of Malaysia, Australia and Americans who in 1966 were in Vietnam, so they setup clandestine operation to destroy the nascent PKI....with blood....LOTS of blood.
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Re: Communism: A Tour
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2005, 09:14:46 AM »

seriously though, even though i am a supporter of communism, i dont actually believe that the theory is possible in practice. its just human nature to eventually corrupt yourself. :-\


so why be a communist?

Offline Scars

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Re: Communism: A Tour
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2005, 10:09:37 AM »

seriously though, even though i am a supporter of communism, i dont actually believe that the theory is possible in practice. its just human nature to eventually corrupt yourself. :-\


so why be a communist?

Because in being a Communist, even though he does not believe in its full viability, can support and try to shape the (militant) Socialist movements around the place.
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Re: Communism: A Tour
« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2005, 04:48:22 PM »
I have a genuine question/theory about communism/socialism.

How can revolution be achieved in the modern world???

As I understand it Marxist theory holds that revolution could only be achieved in a country with a strong proletariat i.e an industrialised nation such as Germany or Britain etc.  That is to say Industrialised nations are the only ones with a suitably large proletariat, and the oppressive environment created by industrialisation and capitalism etc would lead the proletariat to rise up and seize power.

However when I look at industrialised societies today I see a middle class that is more numerous than the proletariat. My own country the UK is a good example of this. Indeed thanks to globalisation many of the traditional proletariat jobs for countries like the UK are actually overseas in much smaller and ‘weaker’ nations. Thus under Marxist theory the opportunity for revolution in developed nations has passed. Only the poorer nations of the earth can now achieve revolution.

Let us say that revolution was achieved in one of these smaller nations, and the proletariat seized power. What happens next??? Under Marxist theory the revolution would spread. However Marx believed the revolution would begin in one of the more significant countries such as Britain or Germany. In today’s world the revolution would take place in a less significant country and (IMO) swiftly be crushed by the forces of capitalism. Let us not forget that in today’s world the United States spends more on its armed forces then the rest of the world combined! What is the solution to this?

 


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