Topic: What do WE want in the new Ork Codex?

[Warpix]

eh, fine then, but Furious charge would still be an interesting thing for the Orkz to have, maybe as a squad upgrade or something

As far as how Black Templars where explained to me, (I was told that when one dies, they get a compulsory movement of some odd inches) it wouldn't be exactly right to give to Orkz

[Mr.Peanut (Turtleproof)]

Orks already have the Power of the Waugh, which is better for them in some ways than Furious Charge.  They have no trouble against "puny Guardsmen" because of Power of the Waugh, their higher Toughness, and crazy number of attacks.

[Mauglum]

Hi all.
Well I would like to see al the various lists available for orks rationalised and presented in a more background oriented way.

For example if the unit choices were governed by how the warband sits on the Feral /Technology scale.
And the disposition of the warband towards assault or shooting.
So for example if the Ork player has 10 waaagh points .they can decide where to put them to influence the warband make up.

So units have Feral(F) Technology(T) 5waagh points to be allocated.

 Assault(A) and shooting ratings.(S) 5 waagh points to be allocated.


So  very feral units need a (F) rating of 4.Leaving a (T) rating of 1.
This means the only vehcles available are junka trucks,but wild boyz,and wierdboys squiggoths etc are all available.

And a very technology driven warband like a cult of speed would need a (T) rating of 4,leaving a (F) rating of 1.
So zaap gund mounted on gun trucks,mek boy force fields etc would be available but  no 'feral units' whatsoever.

I belive the orks are the most adaptable species ,they develop depending on the opposition they fight.So rather than have military organisation doctrines ,or specilisation ,I think somthing based on the warbands development and influences may be more Orky perhaps?

Just a thought.
Mauglum.

[Amphetamine Parrot]

It's a good thought though Mauglum. I know when I wanted to start orks, the possibilities of army composition choices were staggering. a way to include as much or little technological specialization would be awsome. in this way orks could once again become competitive because we could automatically adapt to our foes justified on the basis of our warband's technological specification (or the other way around).

I think GW has already talked about incuding all of the ork variant lists in the new codex. what I know about this is from a link to the Warseer forums where there is an interview with a high-ranking GW employee. in the interview he also talks about giving us a plastic nob boxed set. I read that and wet myself in anticipation.

[Warpix]

different force organizations sounds good, like how the Imperial Guard have different force organizations, the Dark Eldar have the witch cult, or how the 3rd ed Eldar had a craftworld codex

[Mauglum]

Hi again.
Well I belive as ork waaagh power ,changes its influence on the orks dependant on surroundings and surcumstances.
The orks take 'adapt and survive' to a realy high level.

SO feral orks use waagh belif in Mork and Gork to chuck raw waagh energy at thier foes, and protect the orks from harm.(if Mad boys truly belive they are invincable ,the the raw waagh energy they create give them a invincible save of 5+ for example.)

And as higher levels of technology become available to the orks thier belif swiches to the mek boy technology ,and the 'new' technology is used to serve the great Mork and Gork.
(The mek boy is soo confidant the new buggy will go faster ,the confidence given to the boyz driving the buggy,creates waagh energy ,that actualy  makes it  go faster!)

So orky waaagh is in all ork forces ,but the focus of the waaagh adapts with the orks ,dependant on thier circumstances, and the enemies they fight.

the more I think about it ,the more I like this idea.(But I am biased,LOL.)

TTFN
Mauglum.

[The Mullet]

Someone Mentioned earlier about a once per game move where all to orks would move an extra 6" before the turn starts, I've been thinking about this and, IMO, its a really good idea

I'm thinking its a warboss power

once per game the warboss yells out a mighty WAARGH and every ork infantry unit within 12" of the warboss and every ork infantry unit with a nob must move 6" toward the enemy.  Ork infantry units without a nob must past a Leadership test to either use this extra movement, or not which is the ork player's choice.  This is done at the begninng of an ork turn before reserve rolls.  If a ork unit is falling back and is within 12" of the warboss or has a Nob, the unit will rally automatically regardless of restrictions, but does not get the extra movement.


Also, I was thinking about the warboss and his lack of non-superness for an HQ character.  Would be making nobs Toughness 5 and the Warboss toughness 6 be broken or do-able?

[DakkaDakkaDakka!!]

I WOULD like to see ork initiative go up.  Though I don't think the ork codex is THAT bad, I kind of like it the way it is.  I think the Waaagh rule they already have is pretty good, but what I hate seeing is getting screwed out of the 4 initiative because an opposing player is really good at judging distances.  Just because the orks couldn't quite move a full 7" to get to combat they basically go auto-last? Weren't they "charging" the whole way across the battlefield?

The only way I think they could fix it though would be if you could make the Waaagh test for the first round of combat, assaultING or assaultED, rather than just when you get the charge off.

And there'd obviously have to be some minor downside to balance it back out.

[Warpix]

yeah, but if ork initiative went up, then the points for orks would have to go up, and kinda kill the whole being able to easily outnumber the enemy thing

[Krobnar Bug Squisha]

I've heard this idea thrown about other places, but I really think it is a good one for fluff.   Rework the BT Zeal rule for Orks so that when they get shot they surge forward.  Once blood has been spilled orks become even more eager for combat, mostly because they want to be the ones spilling blood.

I also think that the nobz of different squards should be able to provide different benefits to the squads kind of like how different exarchs give different eldar units different psychic powers.  A shoota boy nob for example could increase the range of all his boyz by d6" if he passes a leadership test while a slugga boy nob could provide a unit with furious charge.

Also, cyborks should be a basic elite choice, none of this "only with a painboss" bs they've been with.  13pts for an ork with S4 T5 Inv 5+ is on par with a basic marine in my mind.

yeah, but if ork initiative went up, then the points for orks would have to go up, and kinda kill the whole being able to easily outnumber the enemy thing

Not necessarily, new codex means they can change whatever they want and re-evaluate point values based on the new rules.  They might decide that for 9pts the basic ork wasn't worth it and change some things to make him worth the 9pts.

[Warpix]

BT Zeal on Orks would be stupidly broken, and Eldar have guardians with initiative of 4 at 8 pts with a 5+ save, but at strength 3, toughness 3 and weapon skill of 3, an ork slugga  has a toughness of 4, one less leadership point, but is completely saved by the mob check rules, if orks want a higher initiative, then I think they'll have to have a point increase, lets just look at the attacks of a slugga, base of 2 attacks, but with two close combat weapons, that's three attacks and four on the charge per slugga, and being able to go up to 30 sluggas per squad, that's a lot of attacks

one thing that the ork codex really needs, is to be simplified, I say get rid of all those choices and integrate them into other squads, a lot of the different choices could easily be unit upgrades

[Amphetamine Parrot]

it wouldn't be fair if all orks got an increase to their initiative. it would probably be much more reasonable to give the roks an item that would allow them to have a higher initiative value within a squad. or, even better, GW could include a new orky fast attack or elite unit that has a high initiative and high WS, think a unit of Blademasters from Warcraft III with the option to get really cheap 'uge choppas.

[Zanotam The Wise]

For the Acts of Gork and Mork thing:

Gork wants blood and blood is red!
Roll 2 d3 and add that to your maximum assault range for the turn

Mork Is 'Ungry!
All the orks in the squad get an extra D3 strength (and initiative?), but as they eat the dead enemies in a fit of insanity they are unable to sweeping advance (or whatever it's called)

Gork and Mork Wanna WAAAGGGHHHH!!!
All orks get to move an extra D3 inches (rolled for the whole army at once) and if wanted they can move the D3 inches and still fire Heavy weapons, but may not move there normal movement. (same thing with vehicles.)

[Locarno]

Also, I was thinking about the warboss and his lack of non-superness for an HQ character.  Would be making nobs Toughness 5 and the Warboss toughness 6 be broken or do-able?

In a word, Ugh. In a slightly longer word; Ughhh!!!!. Orks are tough - but not that tough...Nobz are already T4 2 wound squad leaders. Besides, a Warboss is a Warboss, not a Warlord - he is not a Chaos Lord/Chapter master equivalent like Snagrod/Nazdreg (should) be. See special character suggestion.

My thoughts - attempt to have only one army list - a few units maybe moveable about between slots depending on the choices you make. And including some weapons/wargear by default or condensing several items into one.

My ideas:

Weapons:
Power Klaw/Slugga/Shoota/Choppa/Eavy Weapons/Kustom Mega Blasta No change needed!
Uge Choppa - 5 points, strikes at wielder initiative
Kustom Slugga - 5 points, S5 AP2 Gets hot! Slugga
Kustom Shoota - 10 points, S5, AP2, Assault 2, Gets hot! Shoota
Kombi-Shoota - Add one-use rokkit or skorcha for 5 points
Urty Syringe - Wounds on a 2+. No daft restrictions on use.

Wargear
Iron Gob - All nobz Ld 8 (Ld7 ridiculous). Warboss Ld10 at slight cost boost. Iron Gobz on models needed soley to make them look ded 'ard.

Mega Armour - No faffing about with mega boosters. Slow and purposeful allows some use of shootas - but costs attack bonus on the charge. Mega armour cheaper - direct 25 point alternative to power klaw.

Cyboar - +1 attack but no improved save. Cavalry (obviously)

Grot assistants - take up no space in squad transports - orks will just sit on them!. Sqaud option rather than wargear for nobz

Ammo Runts - one use, anyone in the squad can make a reroll to hit. No 'must be in base contact' malarky
Grot Riggas - One-use Mekboy rerolls to fix stuff (very cheap!)
Grot Orderlies - One use dok rerolls
Banna Wava - one use roll an extra dice and discard highest for Mob checks.

Waaagh Banna to allow rerolls on all mob checks - making it actually worth its cost - or dropped to about 10 points.

Mek's Tools
Normal 'fix on a six'

Dok's Tools
First casualty per turn gets Feel No Pain.

Kustom Force Field - 15 points - whole mob (and mob's transport if currently on board) counts as in cover. (ducks flying pans! Easier to manage, as with Lion Helm. Take Grots or bikes if you'd prefer area coverage!)



Big mob changes

HQ
Warboss - Minimal changes. Slight cost increas, gets slugga, choppa, eavy armour and stikkbombz by default. Options of mega armour or warbike or cyboar

Nobz - as above at same cost (covers off the normal complaints of nobz being overpriced)
Independant mob like warlocks or DA command squad. Must match warboss selection of bikes/cyboars. Trukk or battlewagon option.

Painboss & Cyborks - largely unchanged

Big mek & mekboyz - largely unchanged but matched weapons allowed.

Oddboyz - most mobs have option to add one (or more) oddboyz; mekboys, mad doks, or wierdboyz. Not all mobz have all 3 options.

Wierdboyz - as feral orks but not independant characters, 1 wound. Much cheaper. Eadbutt and Psychic vomit powers as currently. Much cheaper! Normal perils of the warp effect but head explodes on an eadbang (blast perils of the warp!). Wierdboy stikk earths psychic attacks on the mob on a 5+

Elites

Flash gitz:
Double normal number of ammo runts allowed (6). Any number of kustom sluggas or big shootas.

Kommandoes:
Gain a normal ork t-shirt save, just for consistancy

Ard Boyz:
No change needed

Madboyz:
Normal ork statline but S4 - fearless but orks won't mob up with them. Get disturbed.  Mad Dok or wierdboy only leader option.

Stormboyz:
No change needed

Troops
Boyz:
9 points each, come with choppa and either slugga or shoota (or a mix). Stikkbombz can be added at +1 point for frag and krak bombz. 'Eavy weapons replace slugga/shoota.

Grots:
No change needed

Tankbustas:
Definitely no change needed!



Fast attack:
Warbikes - no change. Can be upgraded to deth koptas - 4+ save, jet bike, cannot field a nob - at a cost per model. Troops if Warboss & Nobz bike-mounted

Warbuggy/Wartrak - no change.

Trukk Boyz - No change

Boarboyz - Normal Ork Statline, mounted on cyboars. Troops if wrboss and nobz boar-mounted.

Heavy Support
Big Gunz - unchanged
Lootas - Update weapons/transport options and include in codex.
Looted vehicles
Killa Kanz - count as a mob for waaaagh checks. Can upgrade a killa kan to dreadnought weapons set for extra cost (cheap compared to curent dread cost)
Battlewagons - not 0-1 - allows mechanised army!
Gunwagons -  a touch better armoured




Major rules changes - mob size checks use the number of models you count as for outnumbering: i.e. boyz 1, nobz 2, warboss 3, killa kan 5, dread 10

No, I haven't forgotten Skarboyz! 'Skarboyz' indicates veteran status - and is availible as an upgrade to all 'fighty' mobz: boyz mobz, stormboyz, boarboyz, ardboyz, kommandoes, trukk boyz, etc. Cost varies, depending on mob type, but +2 points a model for normal boyz, +3 for more dangerous types like boarboyz or ard boyz. The option makes sense to me - da 'Ardest boyz is da ones what gets da best armour and gear...


Special Characters:
Hmm.....
Ghasgkhull Mag Uruk Thraka - has to be! T5 (base) , WS6 W4 Warboss. Mega Armour, Kustom Shoota. Adamantium skull gives immunity to instant death. Armed with dreadnought close combat weapon rather than power klaw. Counts as a Waaagh banner with double normal range. Cost? Shedloads.

Of course you could always use him as Snagrod/Nazdreg/Gorgutz/whoever in the same way that you find eldar armies with 'Jeff Ulthran'....

Would love to see Thrug Bullneck back as a lower level character (Skarboss). Adds preferred enemy Space marines to the mob he joins (ATSKNF space marines only to save arguments)

[Mauglum]

Hi all.
I have had a bit of a rethink about the Ork doctrines,traits.
How about having a 'vannila' list to represent 'standard ' warbands.
And the vannila list has the options of 'themed upgrades.'
SO if the Orky kulture within the warband  starts to polarise,they  follow the strongest of the kultures  influences,and the specific  themed upgrades become available?

So the 'standard' ork units have a symbol (orky Glyph)designating the type of Kulture compatability,and the same symbol is used to denote what upgrade is available to the unit if this Kulture theme is selected.

So a ork warband with a 'Blasta Bonce ' kulture, denoted with a ork 'dakka 'glyph.Has the shootiest units and the options to upgrade specific units to make them more 'shooty'.

An ork warband with a 'smash da gits' kulture denoted with an  Ork 'Snik/Axe' glyph.Has the most 'ard as nailz' assault units with the options available to make specific units more 'hitty'.

An ork warband with a 'Goin' Wild' kulture denoted by a 'Boar' glyph
Has the most feral and wild units available with the option to improve some units abilities with 'Waagh' power upgrades.

An ork warband with the 'Speed freeks' kulture ,denoted by a 'wheel' glyph.Has the fastest moving units , with upgrades available to improve some  units with 'Kustom' upgrades.

I am working on the lines that the' boar' or' wheel' glyph denoted the level of technology.
And the 'dakka' or 'snik' glyph denoted the focus on shooting or assault units.

SO themed lists could be feral shooting oriented,feral assault oriented.

'High tek' shooting oreinted, 'high tek' assault oriented.

When I say shooting oriented I mean within the context of ork mentality,not in a IG gunline way..)

Would this simplified representation.(No numbers what-so-ever.)
Be a bit more in keeping with current 'GW development.'

Just a thought.
Lanrak.

[Amphetamine Parrot]

wow, you really expanded on this idea. I think it might be worthwhile to alert GW to this thread before they finish making the new ork codex, some of these ideas are probably better than what they already have in the codex.

 I wouldn't mind a system like the one your proposing Mauglum, but from the way I understand it, it doesn't really allow very much interchangeability between feral orks and vanilla orks or any other variation. the ability to use any unit of orks in any type of ork army regardless of technological development is what I wouldn't mind seeing. fielding a gargutuan squiggoth in a goff army would be phat. WAAAAAGH!

[Locarno]

That's the one problem with limiting units or having radically different lists, and part of the reason why GW shied away from something similar in Codex: Eldar (no craftworld lists) - instead you can mix and match units as you like...

I'd personally really like to be able to grab units from all the dozens orks have to chose from; there's no reasons why madboyz should be unavilible to a well-armed waaagh - it's the waaaagh power that sent them bonkers, after all....

cyboars can be as advanced as you like, depending on the relative ratio of 'cy' and 'boar'

[Banned Solorg]

Putting Feral-Type Orks (like Boar-Riders and such) back into the Ork List would give a player a way to play Ferals without needing a separate list.  In my mind, Ferals don't really have to be a whole different army.  I can see Savage Orks fighting with Regular Orks.  Why not?  Same with Freeks, actually.  Why have a whole separate army?  They play the same, basically.  I mean, bikes are bikes, Trukks are Trukks, big deal.  Aside from a new unit or two, they are basically the exact same army.

Adding the cool units from these "alternate" armies into the main Codex would, I think, be a great idea.  To me, having 90% regular Ork Stuff and 10% new stuff is an artificial way to make a new "Army."  On the other hand, I don't really object to it either, but I guess the bottom line is that I can't see why I can't have this COOL stuff in my regular Ork Army (unity of Nobs on Bikes, Squiggoths, Madboyz, what have you).

Also, I want to be able to field all my stuff at once.     Well, that's the Ork in me.

[Amphetamine Parrot]

I was re-reading my ork codex for the billionth time and started reading about how the orks in ork empires like Charadon have large amounts of massive orks. perhaps these orks could be fielded sort of like an elite nob ork army. maybe a new ork unit should be considered to represent these gargantuan orks. they would be like black orks in the fantasy orc range. it would be cool to represent an ork army coming from the heart of the Charadon empire to wreak havoc o I can see Savage Orks fighting with Regular

Orks.  Why not?n the neighboring Ultramarines. WAAAAAAHG!!

yay for feral orks!

[Mauglum]

HI all.
As usual,I didnt realy explian my Orky kulture Ideas that well.
The vanilla list gives all the basic mob types,mad boys,boarboys bike boys,trukks,gunk truks tanks squiggoth,boys mobs,etc.With basic abilities and basic  equipment options.

But when the glyphs are selected the appropriate kulture type gets bonus abilities,equipment options to the appropriate type of unit ,and restrictions to the counter type of unit.

So feral and shooty may give the option for mad boys to have a wyrd boy attached.(The mad boys generate more Waagh power than standard boys..very dangerous unit to anyone near by!!)
Boys mobs get the option of huntaz upgrades +1 BS,but do not get choppas/sluggas.

The tek and Assault options let the skar boys option to be upgraded to a Nobs Mob.(With option of bikes or wartruk transport.)

Feral and assault give the option for cyboars/supa cyboars and squig assault upgrades,perhaps ...

So selecting the appropriate glyphs makes certain types of units more effective   acording to the' Kulture' ,and the units that are not inline with the selected Kulture are no longer available.(The warboss kicks them out for 'not bein rite in da ead.'Or uses them for 'speshul missions', like 'findin da mines in dat der field'.)

I hope my inane ramblings are slightly more clear now.

TTFN
Mauglum.