News: No news is good news...

Login  |  Register

Author Topic: What do WE want in the new Ork Codex?  (Read 13263 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Amphetamine Parrot

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 800
What do WE want in the new Ork Codex?
« on: April 11, 2007, 06:07:19 PM »
NOTE: This post and the 18 below it are from here: New ork codex [Rumor Mill].  If you have new rumors to share, post them in the Rumor Mill thread, if you have ideas for what you'd like to see in the new Codex, post them here.  -Mr.Peanut


I think that maybe orks should be given a form of the 'acts of faith' used in the sisters of battle army. Call it WAAAGH! points or something. the points could be pooled, and you could acquire more depending on the units you field or the units you kill. there could be several options for the WAAAGH! powers you can purchase with your WAAAGH! points.

Speed of Gork and mork: gives the squad a 12" assault on their first charge only.

Da boyz is back: when working out if one side the other in close combat, roll 1 d6, the result is the number added to the number of orks in the mob.

hidden grots: a mob that takes this WAAAGH! power is treated as if it is screened by a gretchin mob. victory points WILL NOT be awarded to the enemy for killing the grots. the grots do not take up a slot on the force organisation chart.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(the WAAAGH! points cost would be based on the powers effectiveness, for example, it would not be possible for you to have enough points to give more than a few squads an increased initiative for the entire game).

just an idea, im sure the rest of the ork community could come up with many more options for the WAAAGH! power system, feel free to add some if you like.

just my 2cents, this is what I would really like GW to add to the new dex, it could be a fair system if someone really worked with it. and it might make up for some of the orks weaknesses without overpowering the greenskins too much.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2007, 11:34:02 PM by Mr.Peanut »
I DEMAND NEW DARK ELDAR!!!

Offline Warpix

  • Guardian
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 251
What do WE want in the new Ork Codex?
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2007, 07:04:00 PM »
I think the WAAAGH!! system you proposed there, but it would have to have certain restrictions, like if orks on a wartruck had a 12" assault chance, that would be just wrong, but the concept it it sounds fluffy and would make for an interesting game I think

Offline Amphetamine Parrot

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 800
What do WE want in the new Ork Codex?
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2007, 08:17:58 PM »
Quote
I think the WAAAGH!! system you proposed there, but it would have to have certain restrictions, like if orks on a wartruck had a 12" assault chance, that would be just wrong, but the concept it it sounds fluffy and would make for an interesting game I think

I agree with you here, I need to sit down and take time to develop this system more properly, I could possibly play test it and tell you guys how it goes. if anyone else has any WAAAGH! power ideas it would be great to here em.

cheers.
I DEMAND NEW DARK ELDAR!!!

Offline Full Metal Geneticist

  • Sir Quotesaplenty | No new bastardy suits.
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6113
  • Country: 00
  • Defender of the Text Wall
    • FMG's Angry Rantings
What do WE want in the new Ork Codex?
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2007, 10:12:53 PM »
orks arent ment to have 'tank' vehicles, they are ment to have realitively fast, large, decently armored transports, that are decently inexpensive, and if they actually get hit, tend to go 'bang' but the circumstances are, that you have alot of boys which are cheep and effective in hth, scary and useful HQ's, and most ork vehicles act as open toped transports thus extending assualt range, and protecting against small arms.

Orks have "tanks". They just are'nt portrayed in the 40K scale.


It is pernicious nonsense that feeds into a rising wave of irrationality which threatens to overwhelm the hard-won gains of the Enlightenment and the scientific method. We risk as a society slipping back into a state of magical thinking when made-up science passes for rational discourse. I would compare it to witchcraft but honestly that's insulting to witches.

Offline Warpix

  • Guardian
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 251
What do WE want in the new Ork Codex?
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2007, 01:14:07 AM »
You can probably steal some ideas off of the Dark Eldar witch drug powers, some good ones may be +1 to initiative, +1 to strength, mob check may be good to be put under the WAAGH!! rules, and additional attack on the charge in addition to the normal, any of these sounding good?

Offline Andro Ist Keine Schwedischen

  • Da Biggest; His Fluffiness; Warboss
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5466
  • Country: 00
What do WE want in the new Ork Codex?
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2007, 01:26:07 AM »
Small things like a 6+ inv save or +D6" assault range would be nice for Waaagh! Powers.  Not too powerful, a little unpredictable, but enough to tip the edge.

In my opinion the Sister's Acts of Faith are a little overpowered and easily abused.  To say the least.

~Andromidius
aka. Boris the Bear

Offline Locarno

  • Ork Boy
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6488
  • Country: 00
  • Could I interest you in a small bribe?
What do WE want in the new Ork Codex?
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2007, 03:18:22 AM »
I'm not sure having a repetoire of different abilities feels especially orky; they're not 'praying' in the same way sisters are (ok, in a sense they are), theyre yelling really loudly and charging at stuff.....besides which; when would you not pick 'double initiative'
for a decent sized mob?


The trick is always going to be making any extra movement balanced for both mechanised and footslogging mobz...that's why I think that an extra move - or increase in assault range (I think that's a good idea, rather more Waaagh-esque) dependant on how much you passed a mob check by is a good idea.

Yes, a 10-strong trukk mob should pass its mob check - but only by two or three points, and 2-3" extra on the charge wont break them.

A footslogging mob of 20-30 orks, though, is all but garounateed to get whatever maximum move bonus you care to give them (6" seems as much as can reasonably be given to infantry)


Making it one-use and dependant on the warboss also makes (a) your warboss or warlord a more important element of the army and (b) requires a bit of judgement on using it...

Stories to read....
Songs of Earth
The Will to Survive Series

Tervigon Army List:
Games Played: 35
Termagants expended for the Hive Mind: ~2685

Offline superlolo

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
What do WE want in the new Ork Codex?
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2007, 04:04:11 AM »
Sorry I've just given it a thought and imagine how an ork would react in battle. And I just imagine that the closer he gets, the ragier he becomes.

Maybe we could have a check roll on a D6 or a mob check when a unit enters the rapid-fire radius. This way it would represent the orks raging into combat. Maybe it could also be a fleet of foot move, but just before assault, not all the time.
I understand orks are not as fast as eldars, but I also think that orks are more willing to charge!  ;D

Just my two cents


Ah and sorry for my english, I'm just a little frenchie   ::)

Offline Amphetamine Parrot

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 800
What do WE want in the new Ork Codex?
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2007, 09:01:31 AM »
Quote
You can probably steal some ideas off of the Dark Eldar witch drug powers, some good ones may be +1 to initiative, +1 to strength, mob check may be good to be put under the WAAGH!! rules

yea that would work, I have the DE codex right in front of me, ill see what I can do.

Quote
I'm not sure having a repetoire of different abilities feels especially orky; they're not 'praying' in the same way sisters are (ok, in a sense they are), theyre yelling really loudly and charging at stuff

orks don't have to pray, the more of them there are the more powerful they become. orks have latent psychic auras supposedly generated by gork and mork, they dont know how to harness this psychic advantage, they are just born with it, as is usually the case with all knowledge and power in ork society. this aura of psychic power could be subconsciously tapped during battle in the form of WAAAGH! powers giving orks little boosts to augment their need to get to grips with their foes. thier love of battle is so strong that it takes form in these powers. that was my thinking behind these powers, so they aren't actually zealously preying, but their lust for battle, fighting, destruction and gork and mork manifest into WAAAGH powers.

Quote
The trick is always going to be making any extra movement balanced for both mechanised and footslogging mobz...that's why I think that an extra move - or increase in assault range (I think that's a good idea, rather more Waaagh-esque) dependant on how much you passed a mob check by is a good idea.

Yes, a 10-strong trukk mob should pass its mob check - but only by two or three points, and 2-3" extra on the charge wont break them.

A footslogging mob of 20-30 orks, though, is all but garounateed to get whatever maximum move bonus you care to give them (6" seems as much as can reasonably be given to infantry)

that's a fantastic idea, im gonna use that one if you dont mind.

Quote
Maybe we could have a check roll on a D6 or a mob check when a unit enters the rapid-fire radius. This way it would represent the orks raging into combat. Maybe it could also be a fleet of foot move, but just before assault, not all the time
.

good idea too. maybe we could make it a sustained charge. you use the power and roll 1 d6 as sort of a fleet move when the orks are a certain distance to the nearest enemy. to make this more orky, we could make a rolling table for this:

sustained charge: 1 - On a roll of one the orks in the mob using this power has spotted some pretty butterflies and stopped to stomp 'em dead. May not move in the movement phase for the rest of the turn.

2-5 - on a roll of 2-5 this is the amount of inches that the mob may move forward in addition to their infantry move.

6 - on a roll of 6 the ork mob has caught the scent of humies and suffers from insatiable blood lust. the mob will move an extra 6 inches in addition to the standard infantry move. if you roll a 6 the ork mob may roll again using this table as their blood lust carries them ever faster towards battle. keep rolling consecutive 6's until you get another result.

(this power can be used for orks moving towards a unit to mob up with)

there are still so many possibilities for orky powers, hardly know where to start.
I DEMAND NEW DARK ELDAR!!!

Offline Locarno

  • Ork Boy
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6488
  • Country: 00
  • Could I interest you in a small bribe?
What do WE want in the new Ork Codex?
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2007, 09:53:33 AM »
Making it a prior-to-charging mob check means that you can combine it with the current Waaaagh! check wthout adding more tests (which risks making it more klunky)

On a similar thought.........a contentious one, but get rid of the current Waaaagh rules. Normal orks gain +1 initiative (I never understood why they were supposed to be that slow), so boyz are equal to normal guardsmen.

Quote
When any ork mob makes an assault move on foot (including stormboyz and boarboyz but not bikes), make a mob check. If this check is passed, the mob's assault move is increased by the amount by which the test was passed - so if an eight-strong mob rolled a 6 and a 1, for a total of 7, they would add 1" to their assault move. This is added to the movement rolled in difficult terrain tests.
A maximum bonus of 6" may be gained in this manner, regardless of the roll.

If the check is passed, all members of the mob gain the universal special rule Furious Assault for that turn.



Thoughts?
Stories to read....
Songs of Earth
The Will to Survive Series

Tervigon Army List:
Games Played: 35
Termagants expended for the Hive Mind: ~2685

Offline superlolo

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
What do WE want in the new Ork Codex?
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2007, 10:05:33 AM »
According to me, preventing the orks from being rapid-fired and quite assuring they get the charge is already a huge advantage, so I'm not fan of the furious assault bonus, but that's just me.

If my orks can reach the safety of fight and can then express their ferocious abilities I'll be happy with that :)

The problem with this rule is in few points game. I don't have much experience with orks but I think that mobs aren't big enough to absorb enemy fire and still have enough body to boost the charge. In this games, the boyz could be harmed by shooting and finished by rapid fire.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2007, 10:11:07 AM by superlolo »

Offline Amphetamine Parrot

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 800
What do WE want in the new Ork Codex?
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2007, 10:20:48 AM »
thats a sexcellent idea Locarno, its not abusively powerful, but it gives orks a much needed boost in speed. WAAAAAGH!
I DEMAND NEW DARK ELDAR!!!

Offline Locarno

  • Ork Boy
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6488
  • Country: 00
  • Could I interest you in a small bribe?
What do WE want in the new Ork Codex?
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2007, 10:42:23 AM »
The furious assault was a mix of (a) people forever claiming that orks need a strength boost (I'm not sure they do, but a +1 S on the charge only isn't too bad) and (b) Stopping the slightly ridiculious effect of doubling initiative meaning nobz striking before aspect warriors on the charge, and a warboss becoming more nimble than a broodlord.
A massed tidal wave of green might help give you the edge, but not that much of an edge.

Quote
The problem with this rule is in few points game.
That'll be the case with any mob check rule - and I think that element needs to be retained; it's always described as being the sheer weight of an ork mob charging that makes the difference....it's said over and over in the background that the weight of numbers is what makes orks more powerful.

Besides which, a 30-strong mob with an ork nob and some assorted wargear and 'eavy weapons can fit quite easily in a combat patrol, with a (small) grot screen thrown in with the change........split ting it up into multiple units was your choice......
Stories to read....
Songs of Earth
The Will to Survive Series

Tervigon Army List:
Games Played: 35
Termagants expended for the Hive Mind: ~2685

Offline superlolo

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
What do WE want in the new Ork Codex?
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2007, 11:28:24 AM »
As I said, I have'nt much experience with orks, I'm just a little snot for the moment  :P

I did'nt catch that you intended to replace the existing Waaaagh rule. I take your point and as you said it is far fluffier to see an ork rushing forward and striking with furor than beating an eldar in initiative.

Just have to convince my mates now   :D

Offline lucivious

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 288
  • our lives are sick and INDK
What do WE want in the new Ork Codex?
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2007, 12:43:57 AM »
please, ork initiative blows. the power of the waagh was the only thing that helped them not get stomped out by every SINGLE race.  even with furious charge, that makes them strike the same time as a puny guardsman?  I wish people would stop bending over and ****ting on the orks for christ sakes.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2007, 12:48:32 AM by lucivious »
What i most can’t the least is do not a bad job and always a good.

Offline Locarno

  • Ork Boy
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6488
  • Country: 00
  • Could I interest you in a small bribe?
What do WE want in the new Ork Codex?
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2007, 04:24:33 AM »
Quote
even with furious charge, that makes them strike the same time as a puny guardsman?  I wish people would stop bending over and ****ting on the orks for christ sakes.

Now now - play nice. Besides which - actually read a post before commenting on it.

Quote
Normal orks gain +1 initiative (I never understood why they were supposed to be that slow), so boyz are equal to normal guardsmen.

Which means that they strike at the same initiative they have at the moment on the charge, and have a higher initiative in subsequent rounds (albeit not a space marine levels - which boyz shouldn't be). As well as being S4 on the charge. And getting a longer charge move.


Of course all these speculations are a bit pointless....my understanding was the ork codex rules are done and they were delaying due to the models? Could be wrong.....

Would quite like to put together a suggestions list for the codex, whether it'd do any good or not I dunno, though.

I have to say I'm impressed with the way the Dark angels codex is set up; and I definitely agree with avoiding uneccessary complication or putting in unneccesary wargear that either (a) no-one uses or (b) should be part of the model by default and people either want to put on but don't want to have to model or want to model but don't want to have to pay the points for.
The ork Codices have a surfeit of such items....

Ditto on units - fewer units with some better structured options to allow the same choice without adding nearly-useless units (Stikk bommas, anyone?) or making current models useless



Current lists:

HQ
Warboss & Nobz Bodyguard
Biker Warboss & Nobz Bikers
Big Mek & Mekboyz
Painboss & Cyborks
Wyrdboy & Brute Minderz

Elites
Skarboyz
Brutes
'Ard Boyz
Kommandos
Trappas
Stormboyz
Flash Gitz

Troops
Slugga Boyz
Shoota Boyz
Stikk Bommas
Tank Bustas
Burna Boyz
Huntas
Wildboyz
Madboyz
Grots

Fast Attack
Warbikes
Traks & Buggies
Trukk Boyz
Junkas
Boarboyz
Squig herds
Outriders
Deth Koptas

Heavy Support
Lootas
Big Guns
Looted Vehicles
Battlewagons
Killa Kans
Dreadnoughts
Squiggoths
Gunwagons

That's nearly 40 unit types spread over 9 army lists!

Stories to read....
Songs of Earth
The Will to Survive Series

Tervigon Army List:
Games Played: 35
Termagants expended for the Hive Mind: ~2685

Offline Warpix

  • Guardian
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 251
What do WE want in the new Ork Codex?
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2007, 04:30:27 AM »
on another thought, the "Black Rage" rule for Blood Angels would work very nicely for an Ork WAAGH!!, at the beginning of movement, roll a d6 for each squad, if a one is rolled, that squad gets d6" compulsory movement that's not affected by difficult terrain, +1 S and +1 I on charges, but not when charged

This would be a pretty good way to represent an Ork WAAGH IMO since it represents the urge to want to fight

Offline Locarno

  • Ork Boy
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6488
  • Country: 00
  • Could I interest you in a small bribe?
What do WE want in the new Ork Codex?
« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2007, 04:34:41 AM »
Quote
This would be a pretty good way to represent an Ork WAAGH IMO since it represents the urge to want to fight
True....but doesn't reflect the 'strength in numbers' aspect so well....even a single flash git with an 'eavy weapon would be just as likely to rage as a full nobz bodyguard.

Plus generally the less tests you do the better for gameplay - that's why I liked the suggestion raised of sticking with only getting a benefit on the charge, rather than testing for evey mob every turn.
Stories to read....
Songs of Earth
The Will to Survive Series

Tervigon Army List:
Games Played: 35
Termagants expended for the Hive Mind: ~2685

Offline Warpix

  • Guardian
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 251
What do WE want in the new Ork Codex?
« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2007, 04:45:44 AM »
true, but you don't have to go by it word for word, but I think it would be at least a good base for the WAAGH!! rules because of these reasons...

1: Shows the furry of Orks on the charge
2: Shows that there isn't as much Ork furry when they're being charged
3: Adds extra movement to 'Da Orkz
4: More importantly, adds extra movement to 'Da Orkz randomly, unlike fleet
5: Simply having Orkz with fleet and Furious Charge would be a bit boring and unfluffy as Orkz aren't that gracefull, and the only other race out there that has fleet and is meant for close combat is Tyranid, and OrkZ with fleet would be too close to Tyranid rules

As for rolling less dice, think of the Ork and Gobbo armies of fantasy and how those players always have to be rolling for animosity, they don't seem to mind too much

Offline Locarno

  • Ork Boy
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6488
  • Country: 00
  • Could I interest you in a small bribe?
What do WE want in the new Ork Codex?
« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2007, 05:03:35 AM »
Quote
1: Shows the furry of Orks on the charge
Fury. Ork's aren't furry unless they're wearing a hair squig as a toupee.

Quote
+1 S and +1 I on charges, but not when charged
That is furious charge.

Quote
Simply having Orkz with fleet and Furious Charge would be a bit boring and unfluffy as Orkz aren't that gracefull, and the only other race out there that has fleet and is meant for close combat is Tyranid, and OrkZ with fleet would be too close to Tyranid rules
No Tyranid unit has furious charge - the closest they get is a tusked 'fex. Which is a bit orky. Black Templars - massively angry space marines on foot - are probably a close match personality-wise. Although don't spoil a Templar player's fun by suggesting they're ork knock-offs....no, actually, do.

Which is why I'm not suggesting (indeed am opposed to) giving them fleet - a longer charge move, possibly, but there's no reason why they should be moving faster under normal circumstances. Waaaaagh! is all about the impact of the charge, not about orks necessarily moving faster.

Quote
More importantly, adds extra movement to 'Da Orkz randomly, unlike fleet
Ork weapons are sometimes unreliable, but aside from Madboyz, orks themselves aren't that random - they're predictably agressive, the more so the greater the numbers they are encountered in. (Which I still think should be reflected in mob checks)

Stories to read....
Songs of Earth
The Will to Survive Series

Tervigon Army List:
Games Played: 35
Termagants expended for the Hive Mind: ~2685

 


Powered by EzPortal