Topic: Fluffy 2,000 point Tzeentch CSM Army (non-Rubric)

[greenlectern]

Hi guys, I’d really appreciate some C&C on this army list please. My army comprises a Space Marine chapter that went rogue and started following Tzeentch a few thousand years after the Horus Heresy. Because I’m a stickler for fluff, this therefore means that all units have to have the Mark of Tzeentch, but none of them can be Rubric Marines or Scarab Occult Terminators.

With this in mind, I obviously had to choose a legion that allowed its units to have the Mark of Tzeentch. After a lot of consideration, I decided to go with Thousand Sons rules for a number of reasons I won’t bore you with.

Although fluff is very important to me, I do still want to make a powerful army within my constraints, making use of the Thousand Sons’ special rules, wargear and formations.

My current plan is to use the Chaos Warband formation combined with some unbound units to take me up to the first 2,000 points. So without further ado, here is my list:


CHAOS WARBAND:

Lord with MoT, Terminator Armour, Combi-bolter and Seer's Bane - 160

Sorcerer with MoT, Terminator Armour, Combi-bolter, Force Axe and Astral Grimoire - 130

4 Terminators with MoT, 4 Combi-bolters, 2 Power Axes and 2 Power Mauls
Land Raider with Dirge Caster - 381

5 Terminators with MoT, 5 Combi-bolters, 3 Power Axes, 1 Power Maul and 1 Power Fist - 189

5 CSM with MoT and 1 Meltagun; Champion has Combi-melta
Rhino with Combi-melta -150

5 CSM with MoT and 1 Meltagun; Champion has Combi-melta
Rhino with Combi-melta -150

7 Raptors with MoT and 2 Flamers - 153

5 Havocs with MoT and 2 Plasma Guns
Rhino with Havoc Launcher -162

UNBOUND:

Daemon Prince with MoT, Power Armour, Wings, 2 Mastery Levels and Staff of Arcane Compulsion - 280

Decimator with MoT, Storm Laser [anti-MEQ weapon] and Siege Claw - 245

TOTAL: 2,000 points


The basic plan is to go on the offence. My Lord and Sorcerer will join the Terminators with no transport, and fly them up the table using the Astral Grimoire. The Sorcerer and the Daemon Prince will attempt to activate their Force Weapons each turn in order to exploit the +1 to their (and the Terminators') Invulnerable Saves. The Raptors will most likely cower behind the advancing Land Raider for protection, while the Decimator will usually Deep Strike.

Please let me know what you think.

Thanks!

[Lord of Winter and War]

What sort of armies are you expecting to be up against?

Looks like a diverse list. I'm not too familiar with the Decimator, but I have one bit of advice before anything else. The Sorcerer and the Prince need Spell Familiars. Spell Familiars makes casting powers so much more reliable, and should be an auto-buy for any CSM psycher.

Secondly, the Prince cannot be Thousand Sons, as only detachments can claim to be from a Legion, and he is not part of one. So, he will not be able to take any of the Thousand Sons relics, or benefit from any of their special rules.

I would also try to find the points to add a chainfist on both of the terminator squads, as you'd be in a pickle if they get stuck in combat with a dread! Dropping the Relic on the Prince (which you have too) and the combi-meltas should help with that.

Dropping the Raptors to 5 men, should be enough points to give both psychers Spell Familiars.

Depending what you're up against, I can see you having the tools to deal with a lot of possible targets.

[greenlectern]

Thanks for the advice Killersquid. I'm gutted I never noticed the fact that the Daemon Prince needs to be in a detachment to get the Thousand Sons special rules and wargear. If I was okay with him losing those things then I would do as you suggest and drop two Raptors in order to give the Psykers Spell Familiars. But as I'm not, I have a couple of changes to my list to suggest:

- Add 2 bare-bones MoT Sorcerers
- Group the 3 Sorcerers and the Daemon Prince into a War Coven formation
- Remove 2 Raptors
- Remove Astral Grimoire
- Remove 1 Terminator from each squad
- Remove Power Fist from Terminator
- Remove Dirge Caster from Land Raider

I know I still have no Spell Familiars and now have even less anti-tank weaponry on the Terminators, but at least the Daemon Prince gets the Thousand Sons special rules now and can wield a cheap, powerful weapon. I also now have a lot more psychic support, which is very Tzeentchy. The Terminators will just have to let the other units deal with heavy armour. One of the new Sorcerers, plus the Lord, now join the 3 Terminators in the Land Raider and the other group of Terminators Deep Strike. The other Sorcerer joins one of the units in their Rhino, depending on what Psychic Power he rolls.

What do you think?

Oh, and I expect mostly to go up against a mechanised assaulty Space Marine army and a largely mechanised and assaulty Ork army.

[Lord of Winter and War]

I think spell familiars are really, really important. I would possibly suggest not running the warcoven, and taking a Combined Arms detachment instead. Instead of sorcerers, take a couple of units of Cultists and use those extra points from the 3rd extra sorcerer to take spell familiars. If you want to rely on powers, you really need those.

I almost wonder if it might be better off for you to just take a Combined Arms detachment, instead of the warband + whatever. You'd need to drop either the sorcerer, or the Lord (I'd say the Lord), and pump the prince and sorcerer to Ml3. The Tzeentch powers are really good, so more rolls you get on that table is good (take psychic shriek and two rolls on Tzeentch).

You'd loose Objective Secured on a bunch of models, but I don't think the Detachment really helps you a lot in this case. If you were running Word Beaerers, or Black Legion, then I would say otherwise, as then you could combo-into their detachment of Formations.

The Decimator is really, really expensive. It better be able to pull it's weight lol.

[greenlectern]

Okay, thanks for the suggestions. I have two potential list changes to put to you. The first I think you'll like best as it closely follows your original advice, the second is crazier though, which does appeal to me:

1. I drop 2 Raptors, the Terminator Power Fist and the Staff of Arcane Compulsion from the Daemon Prince. I then add in Spell Familiars on both psykers and Chainfists on both Terminator squads.

2. I drop the Chaos Lord, the Raptors and the Terminator Power Fist. Everything is then grouped into a Combined Arms detachment and I add in a Spell Familiar on the Daemon Prince, a Combi-flamer on the flying Terminators and a Helbrute Mayhem Pack (3 Deep Striking Helbrutes with Multi-meltas, Power Fists and It Will Not Die). I'd like to get in the second Spell Familiar but can't quite afford it; hence the Combi-flamer. And I felt I could get away without Terminator anti-tank weaponry with three anti-tank Helbrutes. The Decimator will Deep Strike in with the Helbrutes.

The Decimator is an auto-include for me because not only is he incredibly tough, with good anti-MEQ and -tank capabilities, but I own the model and really want to use it!

Thanks! Please let me know what you think.

[Lord of Winter and War]

I've always been a fan of the Mayhem Pack, so I'd prefer option 2. I think it gives you more options. I think that'd be a cool list.

[greenlectern]

OK great, I'll work towards building that list then. Thanks a lot for your help!