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Author Topic: 1750 mech list (new test run)  (Read 11398 times)

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Offline Lazarus

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1750 mech list (new test run)
« on: December 21, 2008, 04:44:12 PM »
EDIT: Updated list from page 2....

Here is the new version I'm likely going to test this Saturday:

1,749 points Ulthwe

HQ
(210) Eldrad
(155) Yriel

TROOPS
(127) 10 storm guardians w/ 2 fusion guns + warlock w/ destructor, witchblade & pistol
(145) Wave serpent w/ TL BL's & spirit stones
(85) 10 defender guardians w/ shuriken cannon
(145) Wave serpent w/ TL BL's & spirit stones.
(60) 5 Dire avengers

ELITES
(192) 10 Striking scorpions w/ exarch, scorpion's claw & stalker.
(110) Wave serpent w/ TL shuriken cannons & spirit stones.

HEAVY
(160) Fire prism w/ holo field & spirit stones.
(160) Fire prism w/ holo field & spirit stones.
(200) Falcon w/ EML, holo field, spirit stones & vectored engines



Swapping out a serpent & stormies for the avengers and falcon give me a very duarable scoring unit for late game and with only 5 models in the falcon there is room for either Eldrad or Yriel if I so choose. The falcon synergizes well with guide which Eldrad can do early on if need be.

I mainly like this idea as it is waaay cheaper on my wallet since I don' have to buy an extra serpent and an extra stormie unit...I'll miss the extra flamers but I've found I'm not getting them out enough to warrant them anyways.

Vectored engines on the falcon give that extra bit of insurance incase I get an imobilized result while siting over the objective I just boosted to.


Lazarus.
« Last Edit: January 4, 2009, 01:56:21 PM by Lazarus »
"If someone used the ridiculous cover saves rule on me I'd probably punch him in the face. If he's still standing he would be entitled to punch me in the face, take my army, and my woman if he can. This is known as the Conan rule of play, and is not forbidden in the core rules and encourages serious amounts of sportsmanship." - Carniflex

Offline Dinendal

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Re: 1750 mech list (new test run)
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2008, 04:50:47 PM »
This list will have no problem against hordes but I'd be very worried against MEQs... I would go for banshees instead of scorpions personnaly...
"The argument goes something like this: `I refuse to prove that I exist,' says God, `for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.'

"`But,' says Man, `The Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED.'

"`Oh dear,' says God, `I hadn't thought of that,' and promptly vanished in a puff of logic.

Offline Lazarus

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Re: 1750 mech list (new test run)
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2008, 04:58:01 PM »
Posted by: Dinendal

Quote
This list will have no problem against hordes but I'd be very worried against MEQs... I would go for banshees instead of scorpions personnaly...

It's mainly the tanks doing the action for the better half of the game. I only get out when I pretty much have to or the TROOPS die. In testing, the basis of this list drew against hordes (Orks) and beat 2 marine opponents. The scorpions can take more punsihment before dying which is really what we have to consider now. Sure, the banshees wreck the unit they charge but then are prompty shot to death. Scorpions require much more firepower to get rid of and the regualr anti-infantry weapons are not as effective (HB's and the like)

Adding Eldrad to the list gives me an option to mindwar the powerfist/power weapon guy for example. With doom stacking more & more wounds on my opponents I have a better chance of eliminating key models due to saturation of wounds.

I also tried tank shocking and ramming quite a bit over those last 3 games with interesting results.....

Lazarus.
"If someone used the ridiculous cover saves rule on me I'd probably punch him in the face. If he's still standing he would be entitled to punch me in the face, take my army, and my woman if he can. This is known as the Conan rule of play, and is not forbidden in the core rules and encourages serious amounts of sportsmanship." - Carniflex

Offline Andaah

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Re: 1750 mech list (new test run)
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2008, 08:29:53 AM »
I think that in this edition, you often don't want to win combat straight away. You're getting shot at. Ideally you want to win in the second round of CC so you're free on your own turn. For this reason I like the army a lot. I play the skimmer-dance game with my army and it works.

Offline Fenris

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Re: 1750 mech list (new test run)
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2008, 09:22:36 AM »
I probably would have gone with Karandras and Eldrad, and some Avengers.
It cost more points, but downgrading the BLs to EMLs will almost get you there.
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Offline Lazarus

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Re: 1750 mech list (new test run)
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2008, 02:53:49 PM »
Posted by: Fenris

Quote
I probably would have gone with Karandras and Eldrad, and some Avengers

I'd miss the +1 to reserve rolls which is a big factor for holding your units....I'd rather Keep Yriel. I'd even go to a "regular" Autartch before going back to Karandras......

Since I'm not ever geting out till I have to I don't ned the avengers - the storimes can deal with tanks more efectively and I face alot more of them. My last game saw them hiding in the wreckage of the serpent praying that something would kill the ironclad heading for them who had allready killed a fire prism, a wave serpent & Karandras and all of the scorpions first...

Quote
It cost more points, but downgrading the BLs to EMLs will almost get you there.

I'd consider droping a single lance for an EML but the lances are vital for dealing with land raiders. I face them quite a bit now in 5th edition and in multiples they are obscene to deal with.....


Posted by: Andaah

Quote
I think that in this edition, you often don't want to win combat straight away. You're getting shot at. Ideally you want to win in the second round of CC so you're free on your own turn.

Agreed. Scorps are decent for that especially if Karandras isn't with them.




Dropping 1 lance down to an EML would allow me to add a singing spear to the other warlock as well as upgrade to destructor......thi s might be a pretty cool option overall.



Lazarus.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2008, 03:05:55 PM by Lazarus »
"If someone used the ridiculous cover saves rule on me I'd probably punch him in the face. If he's still standing he would be entitled to punch me in the face, take my army, and my woman if he can. This is known as the Conan rule of play, and is not forbidden in the core rules and encourages serious amounts of sportsmanship." - Carniflex

Offline deFl0

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Re: 1750 mech list (new test run)
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2008, 03:09:05 PM »
Interesting. I'm actaully running something similar. I eventually gave up on the super council becasue it just didn't leave me with enough points for the rest of the list. So I start doing similar tacitcs with Eldrad and scorps.

I take a little different tact on tank hunting though. I just can't see running eldar without a squad of fire dragons. The are just too damn good.

My list is pretty dam similar but I don't ever shoot with my waveserpents. I'm content zipping around and keeping them alive, or using them as taxis.

If you drop the the bright lances across the board that pays for your fire dragons. Drop a prism and you have points for a ride.

Honestly, I've all but given up on actually having troops that do anything. 2 X Storm guardians with a warlock in a Falcon/holo field have become my go to troop choices.

Pete

Offline Lazarus

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Re: 1750 mech list (new test run)
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2008, 03:17:51 PM »
lol, I was just about to PM you n regards to this list.

 
Quote
I eventually gave up on the super council becasue it just didn't leave me with enough points for the rest of the list.


I was actually having good success with the council but couldn't afford to mount my TROOPS so they would die. What really sealed their fate for me was Null Zone in he new marine dex....that's just wrong..

Quote
I take a little different tact on tank hunting though. I just can't see running eldar without a squad of fire dragons. The are just too damn good.


Yeah, I miss having my Fire dragons but I have been having good sucess overall dealing with stuff at range so far...

Quote
If you drop the the bright lances across the board that pays for your fire dragons. Drop a prism and you have points for a ride.

Problem with that is I get to use the dragons once. I deal with multiple raiders quite often and swaping out 3 brightlaces and the option to TL a str 10 prism shot really hurts when trying to deal with high AV spam.

Quote
Honestly, I've all but given up on actually having troops that do anything. 2 X Storm guardians with a warlock in a Falcon/holo field have become my go to troop choices.

How are you putting stormies in a falcon? (pick up after taking casualties is the only way I can think of...)




I'm still doing lots of testing before commiting to this list - it costs me stupid amounts of money to add to my collection considering what I have to match to.

Lazarus.
"If someone used the ridiculous cover saves rule on me I'd probably punch him in the face. If he's still standing he would be entitled to punch me in the face, take my army, and my woman if he can. This is known as the Conan rule of play, and is not forbidden in the core rules and encourages serious amounts of sportsmanship." - Carniflex

Offline deFl0

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Re: 1750 mech list (new test run)
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2008, 05:27:39 PM »
Please select the account and stocks from which you would like to request stock certificates from.

I'm actually surprised you are having luck at range. I've seen a lot of fanfare of the twin linked bright lance and landraider hunting but for the life of me I can't figure out how to kill a tank, not give them a 4+ cover save and not die from return fire. If all things align it works but it usually ends in me losing a tank a thus a troop unit.

Landraider spam is really a tough thing to deal with for Eldar. We can obviously build to counter it but it makes us weak to everything else. I tend to deal with land raiders in hth.

I've started using 5 warlock with witch blades and 4 destructors, 1 embolden or enhance and a doom fourtune seer or Eldrad.

Just cast doom of the squad, run the squad out of the transport and into assualt against the land raider. Fortune lasts the whole turn, so they tend to be fairly resilient.

The other Sequence is to cast doom at the beginning of the turn on the squad, move the tank, jump out the squad (not the farseer), flame the crap out of something. They will likely get shot and charged. Next turn the farseer is still in the transport so he can cast fortune on the squad and then fly away to deal with other stuff. This gives you plenty of time to send in a rescue unit, and is a great way not to lose Eldrad.

Anway, sorry I got off topic.

Sorry, that was a typo, for the falcons I run 5 man dire avenger units for the waveserpents. I run small storm guardian squads with waveserpents.

It's really the same concept as 4th edition. Falcons that score are brutally effective becasue they are very difficult to kill in one turn in hth.

Pete



 


Offline flatland69

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Re: 1750 mech list (new test run)
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2008, 05:40:28 PM »
I ran two Wraithlord with Brightlances on friday, and the things just oculdn't kill my opponents Land Raider! 5 turns kept it shaken at least, but ont he last turn one killed a Dreadnought and the other a Landspeeder for the 2 killpoints I was losing by.

In short, brightlances are not great at all. They're only better if AV is above 12, and even then 5 to penetrate is rubbish.

Fire Dragons FTW! Great vs tanks and Terminators!

Offline Lazarus

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Re: 1750 mech list (new test run)
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2008, 06:32:46 PM »
Posted by: deFl0

Quote
Please select the account and stocks from which you would like to request stock certificates from.

lol, I gotta leave that money alone for a long time or else the paper losses become real losses.

Quote
I'm actually surprised you are having luck at range. I've seen a lot of fanfare of the twin linked bright lance and landraider hunting but for the life of me I can't figure out how to kill a tank, not give them a 4+ cover save and not die from return fire. If all things align it works but it usually ends in me losing a tank a thus a troop unit.


When you shoot all 3 lances and a TL prism shot at a single raider it does tend to help a bit. Lances still give us the same odds to get a penetration that a Tau Railgun does (5+) which no one can say is bad. Sure, the rail gun finishes it better with AP1 but we have to work with what we got right?

Quote
Landraider spam is really a tough thing to deal with for Eldar. We can obviously build to counter it but it makes us weak to everything else. I tend to deal with land raiders in hth.


I tried dealing with them in hand to hand and it was HARD. My opponent like to keep them moving so I need 6's to hit them and the new rules for POTMS are pretty awesome allowing it to still fire a weapon if shaken or stunned and at regular BS. Redeemers are particularly evil as the template is likey to catch your bunched up models very nicely. Also, I'm seeing lots of Librarians with null zone that likes to ride with the raiders (and assault termies) which makes it dangerous to use the council which was my main CC tank hunting unit. When you need 6's to hit and 6's to penetrate and 5+ to destroy it's not great odds.....

Quote
Sorry, that was a typo, for the falcons I run 5 man dire avenger units for the waveserpents. I run small storm guardian squads with waveserpents.


Yeah, that makes more sense. I could likely stuff a falcon and avengers in my list by dropping a serpent & stormies......only problem is I gain a good scoring unit that does nothing all game while losing a TL BL, either 2 flamers or 2 fusion guns and a warlock that also has AT capabilty and destructor.....seem s like a huge trade off to me....

Quote
It's really the same concept as 4th edition. Falcons that score are brutally effective becasue they are very difficult to kill in one turn in hth.


Except we don't know when the game ends anymore. I found that I rush the objective shocking someone off of it in turn 5 and endure the combat to find that we are going now to turn 6.....I often find I can't quite keep that same falcon on the objetive due to the requirement to keep it moving so I have some sort of decent CC defense...I pray we don't go to turn 7....lol




Posted by: flatland69

Quote
In short, brightlances are not great at all. They're only better if AV is above 12, and even then 5 to penetrate is rubbish.

How many of our ranged AT weapons are better vs. raiders? Don't forget, you can have fusion guns as well. Dragons are awesome but my opponent never fails to kill them after they disembark. I also like the lances due to their AP2 status....nice for dealing with 2+ saves....nothing more frustrating than watching Krak missiles bouncing off of terminator armour for example.


Lazarus.


« Last Edit: December 22, 2008, 06:34:22 PM by Lazarus »
"If someone used the ridiculous cover saves rule on me I'd probably punch him in the face. If he's still standing he would be entitled to punch me in the face, take my army, and my woman if he can. This is known as the Conan rule of play, and is not forbidden in the core rules and encourages serious amounts of sportsmanship." - Carniflex

Offline Kaminari

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Re: 1750 mech list (new test run)
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2008, 03:54:05 AM »
The Landraider, Nobbiker, Plague Marines, Godzilla and cans in a tank are all difficult to kill in a short amount of time.
I have started to solve it with 2 Wraithlords instead of the Prisms, usually equipped with Sword and EML/Brightlance, depending on the points available. It is important to run them as pair for survivability. In armies like yours you have sufficient Spiritseers/Warlocks at hand to avoid Wraithsight. And the brightlance Serpents tend to stay backwards at the beginning and shoot their lances, aren't they? You should be able to create a net of Serpents that prevents Wraithsight over the game especially with Spiritseer upgrades.

Their CC capabilities easily destroy tanks in close combat as MC and allow to ignore their cover saves and/or Smoke launchers. Their dual flamers work against hordes and cover as well.

- 1/3 rd of the missions they start offboard. At least sprinting allows them to get to their target earlier. 1/3rd of their missions they start very close to the enemy and with Eldrad they can force your opponent to cower in a corner or start in reserves. The armies causing us problems usually have a strong offensive part heading towards you.

- Dual armament allows you to shoot a lowly armoured tank and charge the insiders in the same turn in case you were successful in destroying it already. Alos against defensive armies you can make use of the ranged-anti-tank capabilities. In most other situations I have the Wraithlords run towards their target for CC.

- Vehicle driving around with 6's to hit. The Wraithsword in a charge will usually score a hit due to the reroll of misses. If you manage to immobilize it, it's toast as you'll hit automatically in their turn as now in 5th the CC rules for unmoved vehicles changed (see Swooping Hawks).

- Nullzone is neglectible for them in comparison to the council, assault termies are not. But you strike first against them statistically killing 1 or 2 before you get hit by the hammers if you got charged.

Offline Lazarus

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Re: 1750 mech list (new test run)
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2008, 05:12:41 AM »
Posted on: Today at 03:54:05 AMPosted by: Kaminari

 
Quote
2 Wraithlords instead of the Prisms, usually equipped with Sword and EML/Brightlance, depending on the points available.


EML & BL is what I would normally go for...too bad they can't also have the sword.

Problem with them is that they can't shock targets off of the objective - they also just don't fit the theme of the list....I am however testing them in a different list although I'm using 3 of them instead of 2...

Lazarus.
"If someone used the ridiculous cover saves rule on me I'd probably punch him in the face. If he's still standing he would be entitled to punch me in the face, take my army, and my woman if he can. This is known as the Conan rule of play, and is not forbidden in the core rules and encourages serious amounts of sportsmanship." - Carniflex

Offline Kaminari

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Re: 1750 mech list (new test run)
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2008, 06:22:55 AM »
Indeed, the pricey EML/BL combo was my first choice as well. But eliminating targets by shooting got really difficult with the cover saves. You really need mass shooting of AT-weapons then.

But now with the vehicles being hit at the rear armour in CC and avoiding most of the glances or cover saves made it much better. And the double dice really help with penetration. The low number of attacks and the crappy WS made me swap to the Sword finally resulting in much more reliable vehicle kills (especially the fast ones). With the other tough infantry/bike targets relying on the MC hitting in CC I thought this step was correct.

The final decision towards the Lords was how they impact the game against Biker-Orks. They take a big unit out of the game almost on their own. Instant-killing everybody but including the Waaghboss (S10!), ignoring FNP while hitting before the Claws. Even if the Orcs manage to kill both on the charge somehow, they suffered enough wounds that any further loss can make them running, errr.... driving away. The lords/Serpents lances/rockets also have fun with the Deffkoptas once bypassing the Turboboost save.
I loved them especially in regards to good old Snikrot. As back defense it is too bad if his horde runs into the lords as Snikrot does not have any claws nearby...  ;D

Supported by Eldrad's "Whack-the-Powerfist" ability they get more resilient and with the Scorpion team and/or Yriel assisting in prolonged combats they can perhaps make up for a few less tank shocks? Clearing a target zone by killing/locking everything there is more satisfying than just pushing them away for a retaliation next turn. The Serpents might thank you.

But it is a different style of play, needs some testing and so on. It's impact on the Comp Scores you can estimate better than I. It is just a suggestion.  :)
« Last Edit: December 23, 2008, 07:25:03 AM by Kaminari »

Offline moc065

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Re: 1750 mech list (new test run)
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2008, 07:18:54 AM »
Nice list and even nicer discussion.

Kaminari has a very good point about the WL's... and I agree with him to a point.

I would not give up my Fire Dragons, as I find 2 FP's are great, but they can turn into complete duds... so I would trim out the FP's to get the FD's back in the list... And although one WL might not go with the theme of the list, I think it would be better than a single FP; can save points too if you do the EML/Sword or somthing simular. You would still be running 5 Skimmer to push the enemy aroudn with, and that single WL might even draw some fire off of them.

As for comp score, your all skimmer list will get crucified by any score that leaves it up to your opponent; the days of the Cheese Skimmers are too fresh in peoples minds still.

Here is where my list is going (as E/Y are almost needed to make it work in 5th, and I think I can get away with one lighter Troop choice). PS, this is obviously not Saim-Hann, its for more competitive play only...

HQ -- 20.8%
(210) Eldrad
(155) Yriel

TROOPS -- 34.8%
(122) 10 storm guardians w/ 2 flamers + warlock w/ embolden, witchblade & pistol
(145) Wave serpent w/ TL BL's & spirit stones
(125) 10 storm guardians w/ 2 fusion guns + warlock w/ embolden, singing spear & pistol
(145) Wave serpent w/ TL BL's & spirit stones.
(72) 6 Dire Avengers.

ELITES -- 23.7%
(192) 10 Striking scorpions w/ exarch, scorpion's claw & stalker.
(110) Wave serpent w/ TL shuriken cannons & spirit stones.
(113) 6 Fire Dragons w/ exarch, dragons breath flamer & crackshot.

HEAVY -- 20.5%
(180) Falcon, eldar missile launcher, holofields and spirit stones.
(180) Falcon, eldar missile launcher, holofields and spirit stones.

1749pts

I was thinking of downgrading the second Falcon to a Serpent for and using the points saved for a lone Vyper (FA slot)... but I see no advantage to it, as you loose too much resilience and gain another KP.. I have also found that my Stormies really do need Embolden, even though the Destructor is so good when it works.

I won't be playing this until after Christmas; but I will try and get Pics and report back on how it works.. (gotta finish paint on the Stormies, and Yriel)... 

CaHG

« Last Edit: December 23, 2008, 09:12:09 AM by moc065 »
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Offline Lazarus

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Re: 1750 mech list (new test run)
« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2008, 08:40:25 AM »
I just don't see the Lords fitting into this list due to the mobility of the rest of it.

Not saying the lords aren't good but they belong in a different lis for me.....





Here is the new version I'm likely going to test this Saturday:

1,749 points Ulthwe

HQ
(210) Eldrad
(155) Yriel

TROOPS
(127) 10 storm guardians w/ 2 fusion guns + warlock w/ destructor, witchblade & pistol
(145) Wave serpent w/ TL BL's & spirit stones
(85) 10 defender guardians w/ shuriken cannon
(145) Wave serpent w/ TL BL's & spirit stones.
(60) 5 Dire avengers

ELITES
(192) 10 Striking scorpions w/ exarch, scorpion's claw & stalker.
(110) Wave serpent w/ TL shuriken cannons & spirit stones.

HEAVY
(160) Fire prism w/ holo field & spirit stones.
(160) Fire prism w/ holo field & spirit stones.
(200) Falcon w/ EML, holo field, spirit stones & vectored engines



Swapping out a serpent & stormies for the avengers and falcon give me a very duarable scoring unit for late game and with only 5 models in the falcon there is room for either Eldrad or Yriel if I so choose. The falcon synergizes well with guide which Eldrad can do early on if need be.

I mainly like this idea as it is waaay cheaper on my wallet since I don' have to buy an extra serpent and an extra stormie unit...I'll miss the extra flamers but I've found I'm not getting them out enough to warrant them anyways.

Vectored engines on the falcon give that extra bit of insurance incase I get an imobilized result while siting over the objective I just boosted to.



Posted by: moc065

Quote
As for comp score, your all skimmer list will get crucified by any score that leaves it up to your opponent; the days of the Cheese Skimmers are too fresh in peoples minds still.

I've come to the conlussion that I'm going to get nailed no matter what list I run simply becasue it is Eldar. Im also testing a "wraith" list at 1750 which has:

Eldrad
Yriel
10 wraithguard w/ spirit ser & conceal
10 defenders EML warlock embolden
10 defenders EML warlock embolden
wraithlord EML BL
wraithlord EML BL
Wraithlord EML BL
10 harlies (6 kisses) SS,TM (pw) & DJ

This will also get slammed on comp. Of course, I could take Eldrad out for a "generic" Seer but then they'll point out I' playing an Iyanden style list while my army is painted in an Ulthwe theme.....despite the craftworld codex being gone and the changes to the game my army is still autmatcally supposed to look and act a certain way....a handicap that none of my oppoents feel should affect themselves when fielding their beatstick lists...lol



AS to the dragons: I'd love to put them back in the list but they are literrally one shot wonders. This list s far capitalizs on staying mounted and at range for as long as possible. Since the dragons have to get close & dismount it's not really in my plan not o mention I need to keep what I have.

As to the prisms: I've been having very good success with them of late. They killed 11 tactical marines, 3 terminators and a dreadnaught in my last game while also tak shocking and contesting objectives to allow for the win.



Edit: Grr, I hate the keyboard of my laptop at work - it doesn't register often making look like I can't spel...

Edit: it made me spell the word spell wrong....lol

Lazarus.


Lazarus.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2008, 08:44:10 AM by Lazarus »
"If someone used the ridiculous cover saves rule on me I'd probably punch him in the face. If he's still standing he would be entitled to punch me in the face, take my army, and my woman if he can. This is known as the Conan rule of play, and is not forbidden in the core rules and encourages serious amounts of sportsmanship." - Carniflex

Offline moc065

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Re: 1750 mech list (new test run)
« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2008, 10:10:33 AM »
Both very comprable lists, and that was my thoughts with the DA in Falcon as well- cheap scoring unit that is resilient... I Fortune from a distance though, Eldrad with WS squad, Fortunes twice (his own and the near by Falcon) and then Guides accordingly...  Add Yriel to teh same squad of Stormies and they can have some decent CC punch too (gotta be carefull still)...

On your second list, with only 9 KP's BTW (nice)... I think that the "Yriels-Kiss" tactic would work very well for assaults... and 3 WL's and Wratihguard are daunting to many enemies... I do wonder about its Horde potential though... Or is Dual Flamers on WL standard issue ?

PS, don't sweat the spelling; I am keyboard dislexic anyway...

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Offline deFl0

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Re: 1750 mech list (new test run)
« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2008, 11:44:04 AM »
As for your list:

I think it's great. Lot's of synergy. Really the big issue with Eldar is that troops are expensive and fragile. You've managed to keep them cheap and useful.

Eldrad + Yrield - Really how can you go wrong with the best choices. Eldrad is a huge force multiplier and Yriel is really a squad all on his own. He just destroys an entire unit by himself every game.

I like the duel use of storm guardians. I do wonder though about the flamer squad though. So you kill 4 marines or 10 orks... the rest of the squad will end up eating you. Storm guardians simply don't kill anything in hth. I'm assuming though that this is were you toss Yriel in. He might make this unit more viable.

In short, the duel melta, embolden, spear squad just seems better to me. I would consider taking two of these instead.

As for the defenders. I like the idea. It's super cheap. I've often wondered how that configuration multiplied by 6 would do.

I also like the scorps, although I have to ask about Eldrad and this squad together. Do you get the benefits of stalker for the entire squad?

As for the fire prisms, I'm had such mixed results with them. Sure they are great for a clearing crap horde troops, but you will never get their point costs back from that. I guess their best attribute is that they live the whole game and can usually contest an objective at the end.

Overall, I think the list is great. I see this list winning or drawing every game. However, I dont see you massacring people. There is just not enough kill in the list.

If the tourny is win/loss/draw you will do fine, but you simply won't be able to do things like hold 3 out of 5 objectives uncontested or be able to hold both objectives uncontested in a modified capture and control against top lists.

For example, I just don't see how you would ever be able to kill something like 8 thunder hammer storm shield termies in a land raider crusader.


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Re: 1750 mech list (new test run)
« Reply #18 on: December 23, 2008, 02:44:55 PM »
Posted by: deFl0

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I like the duel use of storm guardians. I do wonder though about the flamer squad though. So you kill 4 marines or 10 orks... the rest of the squad will end up eating you. Storm guardians simply don't kill anything in hth. I'm assuming though that this is were you toss Yriel in. He might make this unit more viable.


The flamer unit performed well in all games so far but I do get your point. They have been replaced in newest version of the list to make room for falcon & avengers. Yriel does indeed ride with the other stormie unit but does occasionally hang with the scorps - it all depends on the opponent.

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As for the defenders. I like the idea. It's super cheap. I've often wondered how that configuration multiplied by 6 would do.


Since they stay mounted for the entire game if possible I keep them cheap - the only way to go significantly cheaper is to do the 5 avenger deal but that elicits automatic groans and bad comp when you do that in a serpent....

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I also like the scorps, although I have to ask about Eldrad and this squad together. Do you get the benefits of stalker for the entire squad?


Not sure on this but due to 5th edition changes (and me being lazy) but the scorps get 3d6 for cover and don't IC's also get that?

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As for the fire prisms, I'm had such mixed results with them. Sure they are great for a clearing crap horde troops, but you will never get their point costs back from that. I guess their best attribute is that they live the whole game and can usually contest an objective at the end.


Actually, I seem to have more luck with the higher quality targets killing lots of MEQ's and tanks. As you said, I'll contest with them later. Falcons are inded nice but I can't afford to put anything in them anywas...lol

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Overall, I think the list is great. I see this list winning or drawing every game. However, I dont see you massacring people. There is just not enough kill in the list.

Yep. I pretty much win (narrowly) or draw in all of my test games with a couple different builds. I've maintained since I saw the new 5th edition rule set that Eldar will have a big problem in GT typ events due to the way that scoring is done. We'll win games but not get anywhere....which is practically the same thing as losing to me.

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If the tourny is win/loss/draw you will do fine, but you simply won't be able to do things like hold 3 out of 5 objectives uncontested or be able to hold both objectives uncontested in a modified capture and control against top lists.


Agreed. Gotta pull out my Orks if I want to do that....lol

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For example, I just don't see how you would ever be able to kill something like 8 thunder hammer storm shield termies in a land raider crusader.

I could likely kill the crusader but the termies are a whole different ball game. Gw was asleep at the wheel on that one.





Posted by: moc065

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On your second list, with only 9 KP's BTW (nice)... I think that the "Yriels-Kiss" tactic would work very well for assaults... and 3 WL's and Wratihguard are daunting to many enemies... I do wonder about its Horde potential though... Or is Dual Flamers on WL standard issue ?


Dual flamers are standard on all of MY wraithlords.

Yriel usually hangs out in the Wraithguard unit with Eldrad which is how I did it during the 'Ard boyz competition and it did VERY well overall. Yriel would sometimes disengage from the unit to go wreck a spperate target though.....

Lazarus.



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Offline moc065

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Re: 1750 mech list (new test run)
« Reply #19 on: December 23, 2008, 03:06:29 PM »
Starky pulled the Farseer/Yriel/WG/Harlie one vs me and it had serious potential... the dice went bad for him and I prevailed; but it did get me thinking about this combo as well. The fact that I was running a Full JB Council, Spears and the right mobile support & shooting didn't help him; but his config had serious potential (Eldrad would have helped as well).

Anyway here are my thoughts (sort-of ~~ as I am at work and have no codex with me, etc)...

Run the WG with Eldrad as per standard opperating proceedures; but also utilize the "wall of Wraithbone" to spread out or to try and bag 2 Mission Objectives or to give cover to things.... The Harlies work as a "doorbell" unit or a counter-assault unit to provide cover or to remove shooting options with their VOT, or to pile in as needed... but Yriel works almost between them all. He can add his CC punch as needed, or disengaging to remove a seperate unit. He can go with any of the units to make them work better (WL's would actually help here too, I think) or he can do a unit on his own (I have used him to plaster entire Space Marine squads with the Eye). Now I never did it with the Harlies (becuase I actually have a hard time to get them just right in game play); but my Eldrad/Yriel/Council/WG unit worked like a charm and I think Harlies would only do it cheaper and in some ways better (DJ to Pin, VOT, etc ~~ And my Warlock council cost me over 300pts, although they are a bit more resilient, sort of). 

The WL idea is pretty good for the skimmer list though, and I think that one is going into the test box as well.... saves 10 pts the way I do WL's vs FP's, so it has potential too.... Hybrid, might be the ticket... Too many ideas still, and not enough game time to try them all.

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