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Author Topic: 1500 Ulthwe list for rate/review  (Read 2370 times)

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Offline Dryad

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1500 Ulthwe list for rate/review
« on: March 24, 2008, 06:30:31 PM »
Well, since these new rating systems have been going up, I have been inspired to put my list under the axe. I rarely post lists on 40k online because my lists usually change all the time according to my moods. However, I have recently compiled this 1500 list to try and build a perfect balance between fluff and strategy. I'm sure that many will consider this list to have siginificant handicaps, but that was what I was going for. I'm sick of dropping lists with Eldrad/Avatar/Falcon spam and more often than not walking away with a win. I wanted to try and build a realistic force that would have to strive for success through intelligent synergy and deployment.


Farseer w/Eldrtich Storm, Runes of Warding [90]
Farseer w/Stones, Guide, Doom [120]

10 Storm Guardians w/2 flamers [272]
    -Warlock w/Enhance
    -Serpent w/Cannons, Cannon upgrade, VE, SS
10 Guardian Defenders w/EML [133]
    -Warlock w/Embolden
5 Guardian Jetbikes w/1 Cannon [178]
    -Warlock w/Destructor, Singin' Spear

7 Warp Spiders w/Exarch, Dual Spinner, Blades, Withdraw [196]
Vyper w/Dual Cannons [60]

3 D-Cannons [150]
Fire Prism w/HF, SS [160]
Wraithlord w/Brightlance, Wraithsword [140]

8 Scoring Units
50 models (figs and vehicles)

So, like I said, the idea is for premeditated teamwork and placement. Here's a quick breakdown to help understand my thoughts about unit selection:

Farseer #1 and Storm Guardians
The Farseer with Elditch Storm rides with the Stormies. Rather than the Warlock carrying a Destructor for an efficient FSOD build, I gave him Enhance and hope to make up for the loss of Destructor with a nice Eldritch template. The difference in strength will affect wounds, but that won't matter too much against certain hordy opponents. I also like the fact that the Enhanced Stormies will get to attack first when the enemy retaliates, and will probably stick around after the enemy fire due to the nice Ld 10 from the Farseer. Sure, some Stormies will die from the shooting, but I may even get lucky and pin the enemy unit from the Eldritch Storm. All in all, it's not a powerhouse unit, but I find that it is a fancy way to represent an Ulthwe unit. There is definitely lots of potential for this unit against certain armies.

Farseer #2, D-Cannons and Wraithlord
Guided D-Cannons, it doesn't get much more fun than that. D-Cannons are highly debatable waste of points, but in most 6x4 games I have found a great use for them. Most missions require the enemy to either come at you, the middle of the board, or at least towards some loot that is near you. In almost every game that I delpoy D-Cannons I have been able to creat a huge panic zone around certain objectives. Guide just makes them extra deadly because the accuracy of 3 D-Cannon shots is pure annihilation to any unit. Although the farseer also carries Doom, this is just because he will be in a nice central area of the board and able to reach most enemy units that are threatening. Doom would rarely be used for the D-Cannons, it will mostly help out the Jetbikes and the Stormies. The only vulnerablilty to hidden D-Cannons is Deep Strikers. But too bad for them there will be a Wraithlord babysitting them.  ;D

Jetbikes, Vyper, Warp Spiders
The Vyper is more like an extension of the Jetbike squad, following it wherever it goes and adding that extra handful of Shuricannon dice. This highly mobile base of my army works wonders with the Spiders because they all get that nice 3+ save. Therefore, I can send them into similar threat zones with similar target priorities.

Fire Prism and Defenders
2 nice long range units that can start causing damage from turn 1. Seek out those imminent threats and start shooting. The goal here is to have one stable unit that can hold an objective on my turf, and one mobile unit that can give fire support where it is needed.

I will hopefull be sticking with this list for most of summer because our group is trying to get a campaign going. Also, there is some 1500 point tournies in our area that I would like to take this to. I will hopefully be getting some batreps in soon.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2008, 09:32:11 PM by Dryad »

Offline Gutstikk

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Re: 1500 Ulthwe list for rate/review
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2008, 07:47:45 PM »
Heh, looks like everyone is out to beat the system these days. Well, it's easy enough if you know the sort of stuff I look for; specific unit builds don't guarantee high marks but making valid justifications for choices will take you a long way. So, let's look at Ulthwe, through the usual lens!
Gutstikk's 5/5 Rating System for Army List Review

Background: .5
All right, the setup here is pretty good - you've outlined why you're building this army list the way you are, and describe where you're gonna use it; you own up to some potential shortcomings but you're looking to force yourself to think, so that's fine. Playing with a handicap is something I suggest everybody try at least once, and whenever games start to get stale.

You've done enough work to get good marks, but if you are considering campaign play, I would like to hear a bit about how you think the campaign might shape up. This list feels very much like an Ulthwe Strike Force, with the large number of mobile units it contains, so it would be good if this sort of army list makes sense given the scope of the campaign. For instance, if the Eldar faction has to play as beleagured defenders staving off an invasion of their craftworld, it might be hard to make the army "play" to the narrative. Of course, it's quite possible that there's no background for the campaign yet, but I mention this as something to consider. Campaigns are a lot more fun when the lists selected "feel" right for the missions. Also, any background material about your detachment and generals is almost a must for campaign battles.

Finally, as a minor point, you've missed the cost of your Vyper. Of course I know how much it costs, but I review how well the list is presented in this section, and it is something to correct.

Composition: 1
You've got a great distribution of units across the FOC with good attention given to your troops choices. You have a good number of units in place to cover all bases; some solid anti-horde firepower, some good AT, and a few shots that could hurt some MEQ armies, though a bit more support here might do some good depending on your environment. Your vulnerability is to enemy CC units and this weakens the overall power of the list, but in this case it is a good move because it helps force you to think harder about each move - which is exactly what you were going for. With care, your units should be able to pull through for you, but you will need to play extremely efficiently, and not take too many return hits as you avoid getting cornered.

Utility: 1
Most of your units have been selected with upgrades kept to a minimum, keeping things nice and efficient. So I'll focus on the two squads that I think steered a little bit wrong: You've got two odd-sized units, the jetbikes and the spiders. The extra bike is not helping you for scoring unit size though it does help for leadership; on the other hand, the 7 spiders doesn't help for either. You may want to do a swap, as they cost the same, and bring the bikes up to 6 models or bring the spiders up to 8 models. The second approach would be better, I think, as you have a CC oriented upgrade and the spiders are better equipped to handle combat via Withdraw, whereas the jetbikes tend to get locked and then killed or run off. Other than that, you've done a pretty good job of keeping things efficient; normally I'd question 3 d-cannons but with a farseer casting guide it's not as much of an issue.

Flexibility: .5
The simple inclusion of Warlocks makes most of your units [with the exception of the wave serpent] capable of damaging pretty much any enemy unit, and each of your squads can be reassigned to a special mission in a pinch. For example, should you lose the prism and wraithlord you still have plenty of spears/wychblades to jam into vehicles, and enemy with higher toughness is not so great a deal [though feel no pain will probably ruin your day, as will Crons with WBB]. Most of your units are pretty mobile as well. You will need to look out for the 5+ end of your army; it's nice to have complimented it with some MEQ units but if you get hard it's gonna be broken bones rather than black eyes. The vehicles actually help lift some of this weakness by providing a different kind of target. In short, there shouldn't be many games where you can't do anything, unless things get to combat real quick [and then you're probably done for]. A bit more of a CC presence would help to boost this score, but it's intentional on your part, so just be careful.

Ingenuity: .5
You give a good account of your units, how they will be used together and why you've selected them. Additionally, you own up to potential vulnerabilities and the general underpowered-ness of your army. The problem here is that, while you admit to these weak points, you do not analyze them. Another player picking this army up might have a good idea as to how to field it on the table but may encounter several difficult situations which you haven't given an account of [how to avoid combat, what to do in combat, how to deal with FNP/WBB units, how to punch through TMCs efficiently, etc.]. Because this list has openings that can be exploited, it's important to consider those weak points and how to patch them up without the need to alter the list.

Total Score: 3.5, for a solid army list [given the criteria about playing with a handicap]. This list would offer a nice challenge to higher-tier generals who are looking to change up the game and add a new level of tactical awareness. Not a list for beginners, so the post would do with a bit more explanation of how to handle bad situations.

And I'm so not rating any more lists till the end of the week; I'm starving and I've forgotten what sun looks like.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2008, 07:49:45 PM by Gutstikk »

Offline Dryad

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Re: 1500 Ulthwe list for rate/review
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2008, 09:30:42 PM »
Very interesting. I have a feeling that many of those loose ends will be tied up once I get a chance to let the list fly. Some of my configurations I have tried before and some are pure theory at this point. I'll definitely expand on the analysis of the army once I get a game or two in.

As for background, I never really gave it much thought. I'll have to think about that before campaigns start, at this point, I just wanted to get the overall theme down. It is definitely a strike force variation with a bit of a firebase twist to it. The static units are supposed to be a bit of a confusion for the enemey to deal with while the majority of the list wraps around the flanks. Lets just call it an Ulthwe hybrid for now...

Offline moc065

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Re: 1500 Ulthwe list for rate/review
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2008, 07:09:18 PM »
HQ
Farseer w/Eldrtich Storm, Runes of Warding [90]
Farseer w/Stones, Guide, Doom [120]

Troops
10 Storm Guardians w/2 flamers [272]
    -Warlock w/Enhance
    -Serpent w/Cannons, Cannon upgrade, VE, SS
10 Guardian Defenders w/EML [133]
    -Warlock w/Embolden
5 Guardian Jetbikes w/1 Cannon [178]
    -Warlock w/Destructor, Singin' Spear

FA
7 Warp Spiders w/Exarch, Dual Spinner, Blades, Withdraw [196]
Vyper w/Dual Cannons [60]

HS
3 D-Cannons [150]
Fire Prism w/HF, SS [160]
Wraithlord w/Brightlance, Wraithsword [140]

1499pts, 8 Scoring Units, 50 models (figs and vehicles)

moc-score

1.. Anti-tank potential: Not all of them, but a fair amount of the units have anti-tank potential in some form or another, Above Average (.7 )
2.. Anti-MEQ potential: In a round about way, I actually see some god potential here, although I don't always think "the same as others" since the some of the obvious AP=3 weapons are missing; I still feel your use of diversity and synergy makes up for a lot, Good (.8 )
3.. Anti-Horde potential: Again not neccesarily in the convential manner; but it certainly could have a nice "bubble" of protection and the faster units can certainly work the parimiter on many Horde armies with their mass shooting so for some strange reason (maybe that flamer, the e-storm, Doom, etc) I find myself scoiring it, Good (.8 )
4.. Ranged Firepower potential: Loads of it, Very Good (.9 )
5.. Assault potential: Well, not really angainst anything MEQ; although the flamers and mass shooting potential may offset much of this, so its still, Slightly Below Average (.5)
6.. Scoring Units / point level: 8 scoring units @ 1500pts is actually about, Average (.6)
7.. Durability or Resilience: VP Denial, mobility, numbers, it actually has more resilience than some would give it credit for, Smart opponents will be able to work it out; but in general I think its better than many think, Above Average (.7)
8.. Flexability: Loads of variation, loads of unpredictability, loads of imagination all equals up to a solid, Very Good (.9)
9.. Mission Capabiliy: Well, cetain missions will mess with you (play the table the long way, etc) but overall its , Good (.8 )
10. Dynamics and/or Theme: If your theme is Unconventional tacitcs within an Ulthwe list, well I think you nailed it. Could there be improvements, hell yes; but those imrovements to certain units/areas would really draw from the theme, dynamics, and synergy; thus I score it, Excellent (1)

Rating = 7.7/10 Others will certainly score this one differently; but, in the right hands, this list could surprise a lot of opponents and it would be seriously fun to play and play against. Hats off for the imaginative list. If you want some suggestions that would not draw from its overall design, PM me.

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Offline Chaplain Swordwind

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Re: 1500 Ulthwe list for rate/review
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2008, 11:35:12 AM »
This space is reserved for rating this list as part of the "Big List" Eldar Project.
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