Topic: Imperial Guard Sentinels

[Calamity]

I'm a huge fan of Sentinels, because they're such cool looking models.  I had a thought about the crew of them though.  Is it possible that Sentinels are organized in the same way that the old pre-RAF Royal Flying Corps were?  That is to say, they're part of the Guard (army) but they're an independent company/battalion (a.k.a, squadron or wing in aircraft terms) within the division/regiment.

And not only that, the crew of Sentinels are actually officers, not enlisted, who instead serve as the 'ground crew'.  So most Sentinel pilots are the equivalent of lieutenants, their squadrons are lead by captain equivalents and the company commander is a major?

I know that this probably isn't the case but I feel like it could (or should) be.  I like the idea of Sentinel Pilots basically being like ace fighter pilots. It's that their birds are ostriches, not eagles. 

[Wyddr]

I love this idea and it fits with the original descriptions of Sentinel pilot behavior. I would love it more, though, if Sentinels weren't such underwhelming, plodding doom-chickens. If they are going to be this cool in the fluff, they need to be substantially cooler on the table.

[Calamity]

I love this idea and it fits with the original descriptions of Sentinel pilot behavior. I would love it more, though, if Sentinels weren't such underwhelming, plodding doom-chickens. If they are going to be this cool in the fluff, they need to be substantially cooler on the table.

You had problems with overheating with yours didn't you?

Yeah I have to agree though.  They need some serious love with regards to their rules.  The Talon Company formation was a good start but they need more.  Right off the bat, I think that they need to be able to move much faster than they currently do.  Come on, they're supposed to be fast attack! 

Instead of plodding along, they should move at a rapid sprint flightless bird style.  Ever see how fast a chicken, road runner, ostrich or indeed any of those sort of flightless birds can actually run?  It's very fast indeed.  Maybe they should be moving like cavalry do.

I'm glad you like the fighter ace angle though.  I just think that it really suits them.

[Sir_Godspeed]

It's not impossible that they effectively make up their own "corps", but honestly, there are a lot of levels that any militay specialist can be delineated (and there are distinction between operational, administrative and training "units" as it were).

First of all, I think we need to consider the Regiment-based nature of the Imperial Guard, which I would argue doesn't lend itself very well to specialized "corps", as each regiment is raised as an administratively discrete unit from the start. This means that if a sentinel corps exists, it would probably exist prior to the tithing of the regiment, on a planet-by-planet basis.

Secondly, I think we need to consider how sentinels and aeroplanes differ. Aeroplanes operate quite independently (even the fairly primitive pre-RF ones), and arguably excel due to the fact that they do not rely on combined arms operations (strategic scouting, deep-operative bombing, etc.) while they of course can be used to directly support ground troops as well. Comparatively, I think sentinels are a lot more limited in their "independent streak". Sentinels are fueled at the same depots, presumably with the same fuel, and they operate on largely the same plane and axes as other Guard (army) units.

That being said, Sentinels do offer a kind of mobility that few other Guard units have, and can as such operate in areas where tanks probably would have larger problems, and perhaps even infantry (a bit debatable, I'm not entirely sure of the fluff on this). Anyway, I think that these factors taken into consideration it's better to compare Sentinel-pilots to early modern or Napoleonic dragoons, in that they're sub-regimental units who retain an air of uniqueness and inward-oriented esprit de corps (while not being a literal corps). You might have a full Sentinel Battalion, for example, or a Demi-Brigade/Demi-Regiment.

I don't think it's particularly unlikey that sentinel pilots are officers, but I'm questioning whether they require a rank as high as lieutenant. I think, perhaps that a sergeant or a second-lieutenant ("cornet" in British cavalry tradition, which I believe is a plausible comparison) is a better match, seeing as second-lieutenants would still keep the manpower to maintain each sentinel at an administrative squad-level (4-10 men), while still granting the pilots an air of prestige. The full leader of a squadron of Sentinels could then be a lieutenant or captain equivalent. I'm not familiar with Anglophone specific ranks for a cavalry captain, but Germanic languages (including my native Norwegian) have used "Rittmeister/Rittmester" as a term for a cavarly captain. Literally "Master of the Ride" (a rank used by the leader of the Cavalry Squadron which served as the recon unit of the mechanized infanty battalion I served in).

I hope some of this migh've been of some help.

[Calamity]

It's not impossible that they effectively make up their own "corps", but honestly, there are a lot of levels that any militay specialist can be delineated (and there are distinction between operational, administrative and training "units" as it were).

First of all, I think we need to consider the Regiment-based nature of the Imperial Guard, which I would argue doesn't lend itself very well to specialized "corps", as each regiment is raised as an administratively discrete unit from the start. This means that if a sentinel corps exists, it would probably exist prior to the tithing of the regiment, on a planet-by-planet basis.

That being said, Sentinels do offer a kind of mobility that few other Guard units have, and can as such operate in areas where tanks probably would have larger problems, and perhaps even infantry (a bit debatable, I'm not entirely sure of the fluff on this). Anyway, I think that these factors taken into consideration it's better to compare Sentinel-pilots to early modern or Napoleonic dragoons, in that they're sub-regimental units who retain an air of uniqueness and inward-oriented esprit de corps (while not being a literal corps). You might have a full Sentinel Battalion, for example, or a Demi-Brigade/Demi-Regiment.

Ah I see!  Yes, that sounds more likely.  Actually that's what I was originally thinking, but my lack of knowledge on military units let me down.  When I meant separate corps I meant that it's a separate organization within the regiment itself.  I know that this probably isn't the way it really is but I imagined a regiment to have a regimental headquarters (lead by the regiment commander, a colonel equivalent) which also has all the support companies (medics, engiseers etc), then several battalions within the regiment (lead by a lieutenant colonel equivalent) which have several companies in them, lead by captain equivalents, the nature of which depends upon what regiment it is. 

For example, Infantry regiments only have Emperor's Shield infantry companies within their battalions, armored regiments only have Emperor's Fist tank companies in theirs, and artillery regiments only have Emperor's Wrath artillery batteries in theirs.  But, no matter what regiment it is, every battalion has one Emperor's Talon Recon Company in it for recon.  And this recon company is just a bunch of sentinel squadrons lead by a Captain.  I know that the fluff says that regiments are one unit type only but every force needs a reconnaissance unit.  And this way, the sentinels can be both 'of' the regiment and their own independent organisation also.

Secondly, I think we need to consider how sentinels and aeroplanes differ. Aeroplanes operate quite independently (even the fairly primitive pre-RF ones), and arguably excel due to the fact that they do not rely on combined arms operations (strategic scouting, deep-operative bombing, etc.) while they of course can be used to directly support ground troops as well. Comparatively, I think sentinels are a lot more limited in their "independent streak". Sentinels are fueled at the same depots, presumably with the same fuel, and they operate on largely the same plane and axes as other Guard (army) units.

I don't think it's particularly unlikey that sentinel pilots are officers, but I'm questioning whether they require a rank as high as lieutenant. I think, perhaps that a sergeant or a second-lieutenant ("cornet" in British cavalry tradition, which I believe is a plausible comparison) is a better match, seeing as second-lieutenants would still keep the manpower to maintain each sentinel at an administrative squad-level (4-10 men), while still granting the pilots an air of prestige. The full leader of a squadron of Sentinels could then be a lieutenant or captain equivalent. I'm not familiar with Anglophone specific ranks for a cavalry captain, but Germanic languages (including my native Norwegian) have used "Rittmeister/Rittmester" as a term for a cavarly captain. Literally "Master of the Ride" (a rank used by the leader of the Cavalry Squadron which served as the recon unit of the mechanized infanty battalion I served in).

You raise a good point about the difference in operation of a sentinel and a flier.  However, whilst a flier will definitely be more mobile and independent, I think sentinels could perform similarly, just in a much more focused way.  Say, running independently on one battlefield rather than a whole theater of war.

You're right about the ranks too.  I think second lieutenant equivalents as the 'rank and file' pilots, with lieutenants as squadron commanders and a captain as a company commander works best.  The enlisted men are the ground crews.  I just think that the pilots need to be officers since they can potentially be operating by themselves and thus need to use their own judgement, and no mere enlisted rank trooper is to be trusted with that...except for Marbo.

Thanks for the input!