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Author Topic: would like help on 2000pts space marine army list  (Read 1154 times)

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Offline tomsev

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would like help on 2000pts space marine army list
« on: June 25, 2011, 02:01:05 PM »
2k army list:

HQ:

captain: 153
storm bolter, relic blade, meltabombs, artificer armour.

command squad: 173
company champion, apo with bolt pistol, powerfist, powersword and storm bolter, ccw and bolt pistol

chaplain: 120
jump pack, meltabombs.

TROOP:

tactical squad: 195
10 man, flamer, missle launcher, powerfist

tactical squad: 195
10 man, meltagun, missle launcher, power sword

scout squad: 110
heavy bolter, powerfist

ELITE:

sternguard vet: 315
10 man, 3 combiplasma, 3 combimelta, 2 heavy bolters, powerfist

dreadnought: 145
twin lascannon, missle launcher

FAST ATTACK:

assault squad: 168
6 man, jump pack, plasma pistol, twin lightning claws, melta bomb

vanguard vet: 210
5 man, 2 power sword, 1 relic blade, powerfist, lightning claw

attack bike: 50
multi melta

HEAVY SUPPORT:

predator: 165
all lascannon

total: 1998pts

i would like to be able to play against any race. feel free to comment and or critic as need be and if any tweeking is need i will be happy to hear it... thanks

dont know whether to keep the attackbike or drop it and get a land speeder squadron...
what should i do with the vanguards keep or change for speeder squad and additional attackbike??

i might drop the vanguard and attack bike and have a land speeder squad with 2 with multi meltas and assault cannons and 1 with a heavy bolter... what does any one think...

also im thinking of maybe getting some thunder hammers in there to... where and how i dont know but i would like to

[mod]Please do not double post- use the MODIFY button instead. -Lor[/mod]
« Last Edit: July 14, 2011, 09:05:50 PM by Astray »

Offline Guildmage Aech

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Re: would like help on 2000pts space marine army list
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2011, 06:05:00 PM »
The main problem I think you have is lack of mobility, you have guys on foot, guys on foot and guys on foot. I don't deny that some guys on foot is useful but as a balanced force its useful to have mobility too. Consider how you would claim or contest objectives that are far away from where you start? How would you get there?

In particular you've tooled up units for combat, the command squad for example has a lot of expensive toys but I'm not sure how you're going to get to use them. (As an aside remember you can't upgrade weapons on the apothecary because the upgrades are specifically for veterans).

The scouts have a heavy bolter and a powerfist? Whats their job, if you're running them in to try to harass stuff why buy a not very good heavy weapon? If you're standing back and shooting you don't want to buy them a very expensive combat upgrade.

The attack bike is good, its likely to die obviously but if you aim to try and kill something before it does its probably going to be an effective exchange. Going for a melta landspeeder is pretty similar really, it just changes how you deliver your suicide multi-melta.


Also have you had a look at the stickied threads on this board? The beginners guide to space marines and the Space Marines - Tactica are both useful resources if you're starting out collecting this army as there is lots of useful information already there!
Does that help?
« Last Edit: June 26, 2011, 06:12:53 PM by Hymirl »
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Offline tomsev

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Re: would like help on 2000pts space marine army list
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2011, 06:54:15 PM »
yes it does a bit,


The main problem I think you have is lack of mobility, you have guys on foot, guys on foot and guys on foot. I don't deny that some guys on foot is useful but as a balanced force its useful to have mobility too. Consider how you would claim or contest objectives that are far away from where you start? How would you get there?

 so for mobility what would you recommend?

In particular you've tooled up units for combat, the command squad for example has a lot of expensive toys but I'm not sure how you're going to get to use them. (As an aside remember you can't upgrade weapons on the apothecary because the upgrades are specifically for veterans).

i wanted them to be able to tackle any strong c c squad with ease

The scouts have a heavy bolter and a powerfist? Whats their job, if you're running them in to try to harass stuff why buy a not very good heavy weapon? If you're standing back and shooting you don't want to buy them a very expensive combat upgrade.

i wanted the powerfist as an insurance policy just so if something big comes to visit them they could have a chance, and i like the special ammo on the heavy bolter but i do have a missile launcher if it would be better

The attack bike is good, its likely to die obviously but if you aim to try and kill something before it does its probably going to be an effective exchange. Going for a melta landspeeder is pretty similar really, it just changes how you deliver your suicide multi-melta.

i was thinking of getting 1 or 2 more bikes and maybe dropping the assault squad and putting the vanguard on jump packs to use the heroic intervention

Also have you had a look at the stickied threads on this board? The beginners guide to space marines and the Space Marines - Tactica are both useful resources if you're starting out collecting this army as there is lots of useful information already there!
Does that help?

and im looking to make my own chapter, not to sure on the fluff yet... got the colour scheme and was thinking of some far descendants of ultra marines or something

Offline Venator101

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Re: would like help on 2000pts space marine army list
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2011, 10:37:04 PM »
Wow, feel like I haven't helped anyone out with their lists for ages...

so for mobility what would you recommend?

Mobility means things that move faster than standard infantry. For most marine armies, this means Rhinos and/or Razorbacks, with Land Raiders for the Termies and Drop Pods for the Dreadnoughts.

Transports in general offer you several advantages over being on foot. As Hymirl mentioned, it gives your dudes more speed for them to cross the battle, allowing you to cross the table to reach other objectives and what have you quicker. A Rhino to cover 24" in two turns, it'll take an infantry squad around three, if you sacrifice your shooting to run. And probably more turns as you'll want to stick to cover. Another advantage is that it protects your dudes from fire, as your opponent will need to open your metal box before he can attack your weaker infantry inside. Marines are tough, but sat out in the open, there are plenty of weapons that'll ruin their day. Being in a transport (even if it's later destroyed) protects them from all that nasty fire.

Quote
i wanted them to be able to tackle any strong c c squad with ease

To be brutally honest, they'll fold as soon as something genuinely good in CC looks their way. Thinks like massed Genestealers, Hive Tyrants + Guard, kitted out Thunder Wolves and Nobz squads etc etc. If you want to make a truly combat monster out of them, you'll need to invest some serious points into them. Not just put a PW on every guy.

Things I'd look at:
Being on bikes (added toughness and charge range)
Everyone taking a PW of some sort (Lightning Claws give you most bang for your buck according to mathammer)
At least two Storm Shields (preferably on guys you're not too bothered about loosing, so keep the upgrades on these ones low if you can)
A couple of Flamers/Melta/Plasma Guns, to soften up targets or open up enemy transports.
Definitely include a least one Power Fist/Thunder Hammer for tough targets/targets of opportunity.
You could also go for the wound allocation game. Use different equipment to make every model unique to abuse the system slightly.

And after all that, you'll still be left with a bloated squad of 5 dudes in Power Armour. Don't get me wrong, CC Command squads can ruin most armies, but for the points you pay, you could take a unit of Assault Termies (minus the Land Raider unfortunately), who'd do the same job for less points.

But, at the end of the day though, it's your army. You take whatever the hell you want to  :).

Quote
i wanted the powerfist as an insurance policy just so if something big comes to visit them they could have a chance, and i like the special ammo on the heavy bolter but i do have a missile launcher if it would be better

Forget it. If something gets in combat with your Scouts that you need a Power Fist to fight it off, the squad's as good as dead anyway. I'd suggest dropping the Power Fist and use the points for more Scouts (and give them all Sniper Rifles to make a decent shooting squad out of them). Or go for a CC based squad, in which case I'd try to find the points for a Land Speeder Storm, and give the Scouts Bolt Pistols and CCWs.

Quote
i was thinking of getting 1 or 2 more bikes and maybe dropping the assault squad and putting the vanguard on jump packs to use the heroic intervention

Heroic Intervention is cool, but like the Command squad, you'll need to invest a lot of points to make them work. I've tried them repeatedly against a variety of opponents and they always seemed rather "meh". Reserves screws them sometimes and others, they just don't seem to have the punch your paying all those points for. Not to mention building an army list to work around them (I tried for massed Drop Pods with Locator Beacons). Vanguard are good in a Blood Angels army, thanks to their fancy Jump Pack rules, but for regular marines, Assault Marines provide a fairly good JP unit, especially when paired with a Chaplain (which, by the way, wouldn't work with the Vanguard).

Hope this helps man  :).

Thanks
« Last Edit: June 26, 2011, 10:41:40 PM by Venator101 »
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Offline Lorizael

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Re: would like help on 2000pts space marine army list
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2011, 06:22:39 AM »
Ok, here's a re-write of your list with added mobility and some more anti-tank. I've kept as close as possible to your list/models and added in a few personal preferences:


captain: 153
storm bolter, relic blade, meltabombs, artificer armour.

command squad: 130
company champion

Razorback: 75
lascannons

chaplain: 120
jump pack, meltabombs.

TROOP:

tactical squad: 185
10 man, flamer, missile launcher, power weapon

Rhino: 35

tactical squad: 205
10 man, meltagun, missle launcher, power fist

Rhino: 35

scout squad: 100
heavy bolter, camo cloaks

ELITE:

sternguard vet: 245
10 man, 4 combimelta, powerfist

Drop pod - 45
locator beacon

dreadnought: 145
twin lascannon, missle launcher

FAST ATTACK:

assault squad: 225
10 man, twin lightning claws, melta bomb

Land speeder: 60
multi-melta

Land speeder: 60
multi-melta

HEAVY SUPPORT:

predator: 165
all lascannon

total: 1983

Offline HORDE

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Re: would like help on 2000pts space marine army list
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2011, 07:32:45 AM »
hoo boy. OK, I've skim read what other posters have put but here's my take.
2k army list:

HQ:

captain: 153
storm bolter, relic blade, meltabombs, artificer armour.
Nothing wrong with this. meltabombs aren't overly necessary.

command squad: 173
company champion, apo with bolt pistol, powerfist, powersword and storm bolter, ccw and bolt pistol

you say you want these guys to stand up to solid CC units, but as others have pointed out, they just wont. no invunerable for a start (most decent cc units will have power weapons, meaning FNP is worth jack to you there) and not enough bodies to survive the torrent of attacks genestealers or ork boyz will put on you. also, no transport. how are they getting where you need them to be?

chaplain: 120
jump pack, meltabombs.
Not bad. You can afford 2 cheap HQs at this level.

TROOP:

tactical squad: 195
10 man, flamer, missle launcher, powerfist

tactical squad: 195
10 man, meltagun, missle launcher, power sword
Both fine. could use some way of getting to where they need to be to actually use that melta and flamer.

scout squad: 110
heavy bolter, powerfist
I think it's been said. If something that requires a powerfist hits them, they're dead in the water anyway. also, don't buy into the "a powerfist is dreadnought insurance" malarky. At most you have 2 attacks hitting on a 4+ and only doing anything after that on a...4+. getting even a stunned result on a glancing hit requires a...4+. is your dice rolling THAT good? in which case, you should be playing nids or necrons for the glancing/rending hit goodness.
ELITE:

sternguard vet: 315
10 man, 3 combiplasma, 3 combimelta, 2 heavy bolters, powerfist
Why on god's green earth would you give them heavy bolters? they don't get the special ammo (which you are paying extra points for) and they stop these guys moving, which means the rest of your short range guns are useless. I don't have a problem with the combi plasma (although you have AP3 rounds as standard, so why you'd want plasma in this squad is up for debate). They, again, need something to get them where they need to be.

dreadnought: 145
twin lascannon, missle launcher
Fine for fire support. I don't usually take the missile launcher as my dreads are used as squad support, but i have no problems with this.
FAST ATTACK:

assault squad: 168
6 man, jump pack, plasma pistol, twin lightning claws, melta bomb
Needs more guys. Seriously. this unit lives and dies by the weight of its attacks. Plasma pistols over flamers is a personal choice imo. adding the chaplain to them gets better returns when they're a 10 man squad too.

vanguard vet: 210
5 man, 2 power sword, 1 relic blade, powerfist, lightning claw
If you wanted a squad that could take on combat specialists, this is MAYBE the only squad in the marine list (bar THSS termis) that could do it, but it'll cost you a hell of a lot of points. Also, where are the jump packs? at the moment they are walking across the board getting shot all to hell.

attack bike: 50
multi melta
Good choice. I'd take more. They're very important for eliminating horrible tank targets.

HEAVY SUPPORT:

predator: 165
all lascannon
expensive. In 4th edition it was pretty solid, but tanks are more survivable now and you're paying a lot for those lascannons
total: 1998pts

i would like to be able to play against any race. feel free to comment and or critic as need be and if any tweeking is need i will be happy to hear it... thanks

dont know whether to keep the attackbike or drop it and get a land speeder squadron...
what should i do with the vanguards keep or change for speeder squad and additional attackbike??

I understand that budget might be an issue for you. you need to figure out how you want to play. at the moment, you have a footslogging list that lacks a lot of ranged firepower. If you want to play that sort of list - devestators, thunderfires, sternguard, dreads. razorbacks for your tactical squads.

if you want to be able to engage all over the board, you need some way of getting there - rhinos, razorbacks, drop pods, jump packs.
If you roll enough dice - everything dies eventually.
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Offline Azash76

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Re: would like help on 2000pts space marine army list
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2011, 09:00:09 PM »
Try switching your predator to the Autocannon and the sponson mounted las cannons it will save you 40 pts. The Autocannons at str 7 ap 4 heavy 2 is nothing to laugh at by any means. While its not the perfect thing for killing marines against light armor (speeders, vypers, etc) and against non marine grade troops its gonna be vicious. Think about Eldar with there toughness 3 and armor rating usually batting somewhere around a 4.....pretty effective.

As the poster above said I would lose the Chaplain and the command squad along with the Vanguard vets. Van's are to expensive for what they are. Your better off with Assaulty terminators and you have saved enough points to put them in a Land Raider. You can either keep your Captain at 153 pts or you can add Pedro Kantor. Packing one of the best storm bolters in the game along with a power fist stick him in the land raider with your termies. They become stubborn, and get a base 3 attacks pretty effective at dealing with CC units. Pedro also turns your sternies into scoring units.

I would cut the number of stern guards down to 5 per squad or at most 7. Give them some sort of a split between combi melta's and combi-plasmas. The heavy bolters not that great the most effective "heavy weapon you can give these guys is a heavy flamer but really unless  your rolling Vulcan as an HQ I would stick with there ammo and the combi's. Either Razorbacks or if your running Pedro I would use them as objective claimers great in Drop pods they can drop next to targets of opportunity and unload. I know the effectiveness of Combi-plasma's that ap2 rapid fire effect makes them great monster hunters putting 2 or 3 in a squad will scare the crap out of demon princes and the like also they will cut down terminator squads pretty dam good.

By losing an extra hq, the command squad, and the vanguards and cutting down the size of the first sternguard squad you may be able to fit a second squad of sternguards. Highly effective if your going drop pod with them.

Rhinos or drop pods. If your going Missile launchers on your tac squads I would stick with Rhino's.

As the poster said assault is all about number of dice rolled needs to be 10 of these guys. I would throw one power weapon on the sergenat, w/ melta bombs and then add in the plasma pistols.

If your adding a second sternguard squad and an assault terminator you might lose the dreadnaught. I would exchange that dread for a vindicator or another predator good fire support plenty of armor protection.

Attack bikes are good but there needs to be more of them or you might think of going a tyhpoon which can be long range fire support or up close support with a melta...

 


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