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Author Topic: 1750 pts tournament need advise  (Read 1114 times)

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Offline therealpapasmurf

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1750 pts tournament need advise
« on: September 14, 2009, 03:39:23 AM »
Captain Sicarius 200pts
Chaplain Cassius 125pts

Tactical Squad:10marines, meltagun, multi melta, combimelta, powerfist, droppod
Tactical Squad:10marines, meltagun, missile launcher, combimelta, powerfist, rhino
Tactical Squad:10marines, flamer, heavy bolter, powersword, rhino
Tactical Squad:10marines, flamer, lascannon, razorback

Predator: Lascannon and heavy bolter
Predator: Lascannon and heavy bolter
Vindicator: Demolisher Cannon and Siege Shield

Ok so i have 105 points left and dont know what to to do with it.
Sicarius and Cassius will be riding in the drop pod. or one of them might go in the razorback with five marines.
so all comments are welcome :)
"The clever combatant imposes his will on the enemy but does not allow the enemy's will to be imposed on him"

Roboute Guilliman

Offline OneMeanChicken

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Re: 1750 pts tournament need advise
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2009, 09:17:53 AM »
I got a few things that don't right to me. 325 pts into hq slots is kinda much for 1750. I have a hard time even using two hqs in 2000. That's just me though.

also the predss are messed up. I would use an auto hbolter and then a 3 lascannon one instead of what you got. That way your not paying for a lascannon to kill guardsmen or wasting 6 hbolter shots against tanks.

Offline EldarBaller

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Re: 1750 pts tournament need advise
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2009, 11:09:53 AM »
Actually with the preds I would go autocanon/lascannon sponsons if you wanted to keep them a little diverse.  Lets you wail on light vehicles and gives you some extra shots versus hordes but also doesnt give the enemy the choice to take out your antitank or anti horde power.  Also it saves you 10pts each.

Also one drop pod tends to get its contents killed as the rest of your army wont catch up with them.  So thats something to think about.  I do it sometimes as a suicide strategy, but itsnot really smart to go getting your hq's killed first turn.  So I would advocate for either losing the pod or getting more.

105 points is the happy cost of a drednought.


Offline Paraplegic

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Re: 1750 pts tournament need advise
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2009, 11:58:35 AM »
I would actually change the other melta squad to be full melta and then have Captain give them infiltrate. That way you can have two melta heavy squads threaten armor.

I would also drop the predators for vindicators but that is more personal taste more than anything else.

If you drop the Melta squad's rhino and change the ML to a MM and do the infiltrate trick, you can have 135 for a MM dread with a drop pod :-). This may put you anti-tank heavy and leave you a bit light for anti-horde so I'd change your preds to be dakka ones (auto + HB sponsons).

Offline Wuestenfux

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Re: 1750 pts tournament need advise
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2009, 02:10:34 PM »
Well, I'd drop one Tactical unit.
Three units should be sufficient for scoring purposes as they can be combat squadded if necessary.

I'd include a Librarian since there are many psykers out there in the 40k universe.
This makes a psychic hood almost mandatory.

I'd think about taking a Librarian with terminator armor, storm shield, nullzone, and avenger/gate.
I'd let him lead a large Terminator unit with cyclone(s) by dropping both of the given HQs.

Offline NewHeretic

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Re: 1750 pts tournament need advise
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2009, 12:27:00 PM »
Some good advice so far, but here's the way I'd put it together:

1)  Use the extra 105 points for a dreadnought.

2)  Give the Dread the Drop Pod from the first Tactical Squad.

3)  Have the first Tactical Squad take advantage of Captain Sicarius' Infiltrate ability.  (No need for them to have a transport.)

No Change in points.

Now, I do agree with some of the previously suggested changes.  Specifically, I think the advice you've been given with respect to changing the weapons configurations on the Predators or exchanging them for Vindicators and replacing Chaplain Cassius with a Librarian are excellent points.

NewHeretic
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Offline therealpapasmurf

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Re: 1750 pts tournament need advise
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2009, 04:20:58 AM »
I understand your points, and they are good points. But i actually have a new list i want to use :D

Calgar

Scout Squad: Telion, missile launcher, camocloaks
Tactical Squad:10marines, meltagun, multi melta, combimelta, powerfist, droppod
Tactical Squad:10marines, meltagun, missile launcher, combimelta, powerfist, rhino
Tactical Squad:10marines, flamer, heavy bolter, powersword, rhino
Tactical Squad:10marines, flamer, lascannon, razorback

Predator: Lascannon and heavy bolter
Predator: Lascannon and heavy bolter
Vindicator: Demolisher Cannon and Siege Shield

as for the predators, i cant buy new ones and i kinda like having the heavy bolters and las, they have been working well for me for over four years (although 3 of those years i could move and fire all :P)
I might swap out one of the predators tho to try something different.

The reason i dont want to put a dreadnought in a drop pod, is that with a multi melta it gets one shot and if it misses, then im amphetomine parroted, but with the tactical squad, i get two shots on the turn they come down - which served me very well in a recent doubles tournament - taking out a rhino, leman russ with pask, leman russ and banewolf over the whole day.

but more suggestions are welcomed
"The clever combatant imposes his will on the enemy but does not allow the enemy's will to be imposed on him"

Roboute Guilliman

Offline Paraplegic

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Re: 1750 pts tournament need advise
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2009, 07:47:31 AM »
Heavies look good.

Troops: I dare say you have too many troops. I'd drop a tact squad, maybe the flamer heavy bolter tact squad along with their rhino for a beefy honor guard retinue for Calgar.

The reason being right now you don't have a real meaty unit to go against Seer Councils/Nob Bikers. Ideally Termies would do but if you're gonna take Calgar, I'd go with Honor Guard. Jetpackless Vanguard would work also.

Offline NewHeretic

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Re: 1750 pts tournament need advise
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2009, 03:56:48 PM »
Heavies look good.

Troops: I dare say you have too many troops. I'd drop a tact squad, maybe the flamer heavy bolter tact squad along with their rhino for a beefy honor guard retinue for Calgar.

The reason being right now you don't have a real meaty unit to go against Seer Councils/Nob Bikers. Ideally Termies would do but if you're gonna take Calgar, I'd go with Honor Guard. Jetpackless Vanguard would work also.

Well, it sure wouldn't hurt the list to trade out some Troops choices for an elite, close combat squad.  I suggest putting Calgar in his Terminator Armor and join him to a 7-man Assault Terminator Squad with a Dedicated Land Raider Crusader.  You'd have to drop about three of your five Troops choices for enough points, though.  ???

NewHeretic
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Offline therealpapasmurf

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Re: 1750 pts tournament need advise
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2009, 03:20:20 AM »
soz, calgar is in termie armour.
hmm i have so many troops because 5 objectives is the maximum in any given game. I will post back some changes soon, school is an amphetamine parrot right now, but finishes tomorrow for the term
thanks for/and keep up the comments
"The clever combatant imposes his will on the enemy but does not allow the enemy's will to be imposed on him"

Roboute Guilliman

Offline Paraplegic

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Re: 1750 pts tournament need advise
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2009, 08:44:12 AM »
If you have three tactical squads, you can combat squad into 6 scoring units...

Really, 4 tactical squads is unnecessary.

Offline therealpapasmurf

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Re: 1750 pts tournament need advise
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2009, 12:16:58 AM »
Agreed 4 is a bit of overkill and while tacticals are great, they cant stand up to much in combat, so i am changing one for an Assault squad:
new list:

Calgar :terminator Armour

Tactical Squad:10marines, meltagun, multi melta, combimelta, powerfist, droppod
Tactical Squad:10marines, meltagun, missile launcher, combimelta, powerfist, rhino
Tactical Squad:10marines, flamer, heavy bolter, powersword, rhino
Assault Squad:10marines, twin lightning claws
Dreadnought: lascannon and missile launcher
Predator: Lascannon and heavy bolter
Predator: Lascannon and heavy bolter
Vindicator: Demolisher Cannon and Siege Shield

i have 20 points left over, any suggestions?


"The clever combatant imposes his will on the enemy but does not allow the enemy's will to be imposed on him"

Roboute Guilliman

Offline NewHeretic

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Re: 1750 pts tournament need advise
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2009, 03:02:37 PM »
i have 20 points left over, any suggestions?

Yes, just a few.  It's looking pretty good.

1)  I assume that Calgar will accompany Tactical Squad #1 in the Drop Pod?

2)  Drop the Missile Launcher from the Dreadnought and leave it with it's DCCW/Storm Bolter.  It can act as the counter-assault/intercept unit to any of your opponent's forces that try to assault your tanks.  Your Dreadnought won't do much except get himself tarpitted without his DCCW in such a role.

3)  Vindicator doesn't really need a Siege Shield.  Drop it down to a Dozer Blade for a few more points.

4)  You now have 35 extra points to spend.  I suggest Extra Armor on the Rhinos or one Rhino and the Dreadnought.  Other options include Special Weapons in the Assault Squad or a Plasma Cannon (or two) in aTactical Squad(s)

Let us know how it works out.

NewHeretic
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As for me and my house,
We will serve the Lord.

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Offline therealpapasmurf

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Re: 1750 pts tournament need advise
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2009, 03:38:01 AM »
ok so this is the reworked list:

Marneus Calgar: Armour of Antilochus
Tactical Squad1: (10) meltagun, combi melta, multimelta,powerfist
Drop Pod
Tactical Squad2: (10) Plasmagun, Powerfist, plasmacannon
Rhino: Dozerblade
Tactical Squad3: (10) Flamer, CombiFlamer, Missile Launcher, meltabombs
Rhino: Dozerblade
Assault Squad: (10), Twin Lightning claws, 2 Flamers, meltabombs

Predator: Lascannon + heavy bolters + dozerblade
Predator: Lascannon + heavy bolters
Vindicator: Demolisher Cannon + Dozer blade
Dreadnought: Lascannon + Dccw with heavy flamer

This equals exactly 1750pts and i have tried to written this list with a purpose in mind for each unit. so here goes:

Calgar and Tactical Squad1 in the drop pod are going to be primarily for anti tank/meq/teq. Hopefully they might be able to score an objective but last friday when i used them, a terminator lord with daemon weapon got 15 attacks and killed the squad - although then calgar fell back and i blasted him with the vindicator - but moving onwards.

Tactical Squad2 will also be anti meq and possible anti teq - but will be more cautious with these guys so they can survive and take an objective or not give a kill point.

Tactical Squad3 will mainly be anti light infantry and possibly anti horde. They will work primarily in a supporting role. Question: is the heavy bolter worth it for their role? or should i go with missile launcher?

Assault Squad will be anti meq mainly. I have no dillusions of these guys being numero uno in combat, but they have a decent punch and can draw attention away from my scoring units and the plasmas should be able to pop some meq or teq.

Predators (both) and Vindicator will serve a shared role of Anti Tank and Fire Saturation. In the game i played last friday, these tanks really did well in blasting obliterators, chaos lord and wiping out a unit of plague marines (took them 3 turns, but they got there) now they probably wont be able to handle land raiders incredibly well but the drop pod squad deals with them reasonably well and the preds and vindi might get lucky.

Dreadnought will be anti tank and anti whatevercomesintoas saultrange.
I like dreadnoughts as they are very maneuverable in that they are small.

Some notes in general: i dropped the siege shield on the vindicator in favour of some dozer blades on the rhinos - who will probably benefit more than the vindi would have.

Once again i thank you all for your help and please keep it up
« Last Edit: September 21, 2009, 07:47:27 PM by therealpapasmurf »
"The clever combatant imposes his will on the enemy but does not allow the enemy's will to be imposed on him"

Roboute Guilliman

Offline NewHeretic

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Re: 1750 pts tournament need advise
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2009, 11:14:46 AM »
I think that a Missile Launcher would generally be more useful and effective than a Heavy Bolter in the second Tactical squad.

I also think that you'd be better off exchanging the two Plasma Pistols in the Assault Squad for a couple of Flamers.  The Flamers will be much more helpful against infantry/hord and they will even result in an equal number of kills against Meq because of the high number of hits they get.

Use the points saved to put a Dozer Blade on your Vindicator and Melta Bombs to Tac Sgt #3.

The list is looking very good.

NewHeretic
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Choose you this day
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As for me and my house,
We will serve the Lord.

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Offline therealpapasmurf

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Re: 1750 pts tournament need advise
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2009, 07:49:43 PM »
kk dropped the plasmas from the assault squad and gave tactical3 and the assault squad meltabombs, the assault squad now has flamers and the vindicator and one of the predators has a dozerblade (the pred only getting them cause i had 5 points left)
"The clever combatant imposes his will on the enemy but does not allow the enemy's will to be imposed on him"

Roboute Guilliman

Offline NewHeretic

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Re: 1750 pts tournament need advise
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2009, 02:28:03 PM »
Ok.  Looking over your list again, I will make one more suggestion.

Drop the Melta Bombs from Tactical Squad Sergeant #3 and the Assault Squad Sergeant and drop the Dozer Blade from the Predator.  Use those points to give Tactical Squad Sergeant #3 a Power Weapon.

The Predator could use the Dozer Blade, if you have extra points, but it is not crucial.  The Tactical Squads and Assault Squad all have Krak Grenades, so Melta Bombs are not crucial either (unless you need them against AV 13+).  What I consider more crucial is that the Sergeant in the Tactical Squad equipped with guns to deal with infantry opponents gets a Power Weapon to help in assault after the squad uses its Flamers.

This is a matter of personal opinion, though, so feel free to experiment to see what combination works best for you and see what other forumers offer in the way of advice in that regard.

NewHeretic
Good advice from Joshua:

Choose you this day
Whom you will serve...
As for me and my house,
We will serve the Lord.

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Offline therealpapasmurf

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Re: 1750 pts tournament need advise
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2009, 06:42:22 AM »
hmm good point, but is a power weapon still worth it on a sergeant with a combi flamer? only gets 3 attacks charge and 2 base.
"The clever combatant imposes his will on the enemy but does not allow the enemy's will to be imposed on him"

Roboute Guilliman

Offline NewHeretic

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Re: 1750 pts tournament need advise
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2009, 10:45:46 AM »
hmm good point, but is a power weapon still worth it on a sergeant with a combi flamer? only gets 3 attacks charge and 2 base.

Consider that with the Power Weapon the Sgt is going to, statistically, guarantee you one kill vs MEQ every other Assault Phase (That's a 50% chance per Assault Phase).  Without it, his chance of killing a MEQ opponent with two attacks every Assault Phase is 1 in 6 (or, ~17%). 

It really is an important upgrade for any squad you think might find itself in close combat.  I typically don't bother giving Devastator Sergeants such upgrades as I use Dreadnoughts (with their DCCW) to protect them, but any other infantry squad in my SM list, including Sternguard, get a Powerfist, or at least, a Power weapon.

NewHeretic
Good advice from Joshua:

Choose you this day
Whom you will serve...
As for me and my house,
We will serve the Lord.

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Offline therealpapasmurf

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Re: 1750 pts tournament need advise
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2009, 10:49:07 PM »
thats a fair point Mr Heretic, two or three attacks no save is better then two or three standard attacks. i think i'll do that
"The clever combatant imposes his will on the enemy but does not allow the enemy's will to be imposed on him"

Roboute Guilliman

 


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