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Author Topic: What would it take to storm the Imperial Palace?  (Read 66561 times)

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Offline Shade, Bankai King

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Re: What would it take to storm the Imperial Palace?
« Reply #40 on: December 5, 2005, 08:26:52 PM »
you use things that feed on physcers and other sentinent beings.
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Offline Locke

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Re: What would it take to storm the Imperial Palace?
« Reply #41 on: December 5, 2005, 08:32:00 PM »
Alright, lets talk about defenses. The Emperor has around 1,000 Adeptus Custodes who won't give up until they are all dead. There would be at least 1,000 psykers to feed the Emperor (They could defend him) The Assassains all have their temples there, the Inqusition has bases there, the largest Adeptus Mechanius force and a Titan Legion or two nearby, a huge flotilla of ships, orbital and ground based defenses, and the whole population of Earth. Not to mention the Imperial Fists and maybe 1 or 2 nearby chapters.

OK lets go thorugh this stematicly,

Problem: Huge flotilla of ships, orbital, and ground defenses
Answer: 3 repeat 3 ships penetrated the defenses, there is NO way the orbital defenses could withstand All 50 of the tomb ships.

Problem: 1k psykers
Answer: 1k pariahs (they are immune to all psykers powers)

Problem: 3k space marines, 1k adeptus custodes
Answer: 6k warriors, 3k immortals (half of which will get back up so really 9k warriors and 4.5k immortals)

Problem: population of earth
Answer: snack for 2 c'tan

Problem: 2 titan legions (250 titans?)
Answer: 1k monoliths

that leaves the assassins and the inquisition to deal with 1k heavy destroyers, so that brings the final necron count to

50 tomb ship
Both C'tan
50 lords
1000 monoliths
1000 heavy destroyers
6000 warriors
3000 immortals
1000 Pariahs
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Offline Federal Hero

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Re: What would it take to storm the Imperial Palace?
« Reply #42 on: December 5, 2005, 09:05:34 PM »
I'd have to say that the most serious threat to Earth and the imperial palace would be another Heresy. The only time in 40k history that the Imperial Palace fell was during the Horus Heresy. Just like now, Humanity's largest threat is itself.
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Offline DrewTheBlack

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Re: What would it take to storm the Imperial Palace?
« Reply #43 on: December 5, 2005, 09:07:06 PM »
The main problem with that is the imperial will see any sizeable force moving and call reinforcements. not only is there lots of space marines that will come. there is lots of guardsmen. Plus Mars (which has all the best stuff)

Any attack of large numbers will take precious time. The imperial have use of the warp which moves them very quickly through space.

And whos to say the emperor won't sence the enemy force drawing closer. Who knows what you will be up agaisnt when you arrive.
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Offline 'Mark'

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Re: What would it take to storm the Imperial Palace?
« Reply #44 on: December 6, 2005, 03:19:37 AM »
Problem: Huge flotilla of ships, orbital, and ground defenses
Answer: 3 repeat 3 ships penetrated the defenses, there is NO way the orbital defenses could withstand All 50 of the tomb ships.

Did those 3 ships actually take on the full might of Battlefleet Solar, or did they just sneak in?
I needn't remind anyone that Chaos - with pretty impressive Naval capabilities - couldn't penetrate, let alone destroy, the defences at Port Maw. Terra's defences are better and more numerous.

Problem: 1k psykers
Answer: 1k pariahs (they are immune to all psykers powers)

There are millions of psykers on Terra... The Astronomican, the Astropathicus, the base of the Navigators, basically it's the home base of all Imperial Psykers.. and that's still saying nothing about the psykers used in defence of the palace.

Problem: 3k space marines, 1k adeptus custodes
Answer: 6k warriors, 3k immortals (half of which will get back up so really 9k warriors and 4.5k immortals)

The Legiones Custodes number 10.000. Two died stopping a Waaaaagh.
"Half of which will get back up" is something from the game... Necrons are living metal, you have to destroy them utterly to stop them from regenerating. However, you can count on it that Terra will have enough blessed weapons to do that with one shot..

Problem: population of earth
Answer: snack for 2 c'tan

If they can bring down hundreds of billion people by themselves, I don't see why they'd need Necrons too...

Problem: 2 titan legions (250 titans?)
Answer: 1k monoliths

You don't really understand the power of titans, do you? Your monoliths look like ping pong balls compared to an Imperator Battle Titan...
« Last Edit: December 6, 2005, 03:26:37 AM by Lt. Terra's Guard »

Offline faithlessmonkeigh

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Re: What would it take to storm the Imperial Palace?
« Reply #45 on: December 6, 2005, 03:39:27 AM »
agreed, i dont think its at all possible to take on the palace head on through strength of arms...a titan is big and so is the temple... i think that to suceed you have to be also able to get out.
Lets say you destroyed the palace... crusade time...all your necrons are belong to the imperium.

Thats why i think that the DE idea and the Chaos Idea or the Ork idea are the only ways of doing it... because  Chaos can convert new conscripts as it did before, the orks can handle the losses and the DE can quickly get away via the webway.

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Offline Irandrura

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Re: What would it take to storm the Imperial Palace?
« Reply #46 on: December 6, 2005, 07:07:31 AM »
A few thoughts... (linked with fanatical defiance of logic and general hyperbole)

Or the other option for the Necrons... a single C'tan... consume the sun of the system, wait a few days, voila instant ice cube...

It takes thousands of years for a C'tan to consume a star. C'tan are natural beings, most stars have one, including Sol, most likely (though Sol's C'tan was never 'awakened' by the Necrontyr and so is completely peaceful.)

Consider the sun of the Necrontyr homeworld. The Nightbringer was constantly draining that for thousands of years and couldn't destroy it. He wasn't even close by the time the Necrontyr bound him in physical form, after which he decided to eat souls instead. Souls are like the junk food of the C'tan - they're not healthy or filling, but you can't resist eating them.

Necrons:

50 Cairn class Tomb Ships, 3 of them penetrated earths defenses, think what 50 would do. Also if they didn't just destroy the entire planet, lets see 1 normal army fits in that, so

Both C'tan 50 lords
100 monoliths
150 heavy destroyers
6000 warriors
3000 immortals
and just to kill psykers, 500 Pariahs ((Emperor (of corny names) got nothing on them), Feel my blasphemy!)

that should do it I think!

The three ships that penetrated Mars couldn't fight, they were at top speed the whole way. As soon as your fifty ships slow down, they've got all of Battlefleet Solar breathing down their necks. Need I point out that the three were destroyed as soon as they landed?

The C'tan - bah, what will they do? They're not gods, and their necrodermis shell isn't that tough to destroy (judging from the game, of course). A Titan shoots it, the necrodermis is disintegrated, and the C'tan, in its incorporeal form, floats back to a Tomb World in shame. They can't be actually killed, but they're near helpless to actually do some damage.

The rest - assuming a basic Necron Warrior is of equivalent skill to a Space Marine (given the sheer power of Space Marines, that's unlikely, but just suppose), do you really think that under ten thousand will acheive something a million Marines, supported by millions of Traitor Guard, hordes of mutants, and several whole Titan Legions, couldn't do?

This thread is very silly. It's full of people going "a bajillion of everything my army has!". Let's face it, Terra is not going, in itself, to be phenominally guarded. It's surrounded by a large number of heavily defended systems, so by the time a hypothetical army gets near Terra, it will have had to fight through a heck of a lot of other stuff. Terra isn't the biggest planet out there, and has limited capacity, so it will not rely on having massive numbers of defenders, but rather a fair few incredibly potent defenders (Adeptus Custodes spring to mind).

Terra is a full-blown Hive World. The average Hive World, according to the BBB, has a population of between 100 to 500 billion. Terra itself will likely have more than that, given its status.

Even if billions, even a few hundred billion, are scribes working for the Administratum, that still makes an incredibly large army. Heck, the scribes themselves get pushed into service as conscripts! Terra has the numbers on its side. Can the invaders match that? A Tyranid Hive Fleet, assuming they can land uncontested, might rival it, and a large enough Ork Waaagh! has the potential to get there, but I think it's safe to generalise that you're not going to outnumber the defenders.

Quote
Tyranids, apparently having some serious numbers at their disposal, would appear to have perhaps the best chance.

Maybe, if they can get the numbers there. As I said, you can't really play the numbers card - Terra can raise a larger army, and its elite troops are better than anything the Tyranids can bring to the battle. If you invoke the 'infinite Tyranids' argument, they're all right, but in a practical sense, I don't think they can do it.

Quote
Eldar, I think we agree, would be unlikely to manage it at this stage.
Similar applies to the Dark Eldar, and this isn't the kind of thing they'd be interested in in any case.

They couldn't do it without some major tricks up their sleeve. The defences of the Imperial Palace could happily chew up a Craftworld or two, so direct assault is out of the question. I don't think they could infiltrate their way in either, given all the psykers. It's very tricky - if you asked a Farseer if it was hypothetically possible, he'd tell you 'no way', but in a roundabout 'everything is possible' Eldar kind of way.

Quote
Orks, should a Warboss be motivated to get enough Orks together they'd probably have a go, but they aren't really sophisticated enough to try anything beyond "get em boyz", which is probably the first thing the Imperium will have thought of to defend against.

Agreed. They don't really stand a chance. With enough Orks, it could be done, but that many simply couldn't be raised. If the Imperium crumbled, eventually attrition would mean that the Orks would have to win, but I don't think they could carry the day in a direct assault.

Quote
Chaos seem to be another likely threat. Of course, the numbers of marines have depleted a great deal since the Heresy, so they'd need to try something pretty sophisticated (which they are certainly capable of).

So far they're the only ones to have tried it, and they did pretty well. They could have done it in the Heresy - if the Emperor hadn't killed Horus, and those Space Wolf/Dark Angel reinforcements weren't coming up, the Palace would have fallen.

Do they have the resources to try again? Not yet, definitely not yet. Terra is as strong, if not stronger, than it ever was during the Heresy, and they've lost too much. In the distant future, possibly in a second Heresy, maybe, but not now.

Quote
Tau, another contender, they're expanding a lot and getting gradually stronger. They also have the benefit of sophistication and tactical nuance to find the best possible way to do it. I favour these guys almost as much as Chaos and Nids.

Numbers. Not one Tau world has a population even approaching that of Terra, though the entire Empire probably exceeds Terra's. The Tau won't be ready for thousands of years yet.

Quote
Necrons, short of pulling the Outsider and the Dragon out alongside a lot more Warriors than have ever been seen before don't seem to have much chance.

They can't do it. Their technology is advanced, but the Necrons can't fight wars of attrition - as far as we know, they have never fought to the end before. They can't handle the slogging match that a siege of the Palace would turn into.


Overall, I would say that Chaos has the best chance. In the present, however, no one can realistically hope to successfully storm the Imperial Palace. It's just too massive and too well-defended. It would take at least a million Space Marines, plus supporting troops in the form of billions of Guardsmen, and hundreds, if not thousands, of Titan equivalents. Can't be done.
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Offline Help_plz

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Re: What would it take to storm the Imperial Palace?
« Reply #47 on: December 6, 2005, 02:49:46 PM »
i'd say the Eldar haev one of the stronger chances:

The stars themselves used to live and die by our command, and yet still you dare oppose our will?

If they really tried, all the crawftworlds, all the Seers, "put their minds to it" so to speak, they could probably blow up the planet, Or just use some form of "multi Mindwar", and just blanketly target the general populus.

I mean, aside from the dodgy new librarians, the elder have the best Psykers in the Universe, Period.

If anyone could do something sneaky, it would be them!

Offline Dark Exodus

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Re: What would it take to storm the Imperial Palace?
« Reply #48 on: December 6, 2005, 03:23:16 PM »
i'd say the Eldar haev one of the stronger chances:

The stars themselves used to live and die by our command, and yet still you dare oppose our will?

If they really tried, all the crawftworlds, all the Seers, "put their minds to it" so to speak, they could probably blow up the planet, Or just use some form of "multi Mindwar", and just blanketly target the general populus.

I mean, aside from the dodgy new librarians, the elder have the best Psykers in the Universe, Period.

If anyone could do something sneaky, it would be them!

The Eldar are all but dead, if they weren't so good at sneaking about they would be already.
It may be a bit difficult to magically blow up a planet, if they could then they would have done it already (if they had that kind of power they wouldent be nearly dead in the first place). A few farseers aren't going to turn aside several billion people, a massive hive world, or the most powerful psychic being in the universe.

Offline Chuckles, The Space Marine Clown

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Re: What would it take to storm the Imperial Palace?
« Reply #49 on: December 6, 2005, 05:04:29 PM »
I flat out refuse to believe for one second that Terra alone can muster an army greater in size than an entire Tyranid Hive Fleet.

And I seriously doubt you can get 500 billion people in the sphere of space occupied by Earth, forgetting for a minute that a lot of that can't be used.
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Offline rogueviper

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Re: What would it take to storm the Imperial Palace?
« Reply #50 on: December 6, 2005, 05:16:14 PM »
I maintain that any army that got to terra could do the job. People are discussing the reinforcements that are sure to arrive. I figure by the time you've fought your way to terra the imperium would probably have wasted itself trying to stop you. After all it's not like you just appeared on Terra. you've fought throught fleet after fleet, world after world. I presume that the imperium would probably not let you get to terra and then go, "oppps, forgot to call reinforcements." Thus after you've all but crushed the rest of the imperium the palace should be a snap.

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Offline Dark Exodus

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Re: What would it take to storm the Imperial Palace?
« Reply #51 on: December 6, 2005, 07:12:20 PM »
I maintain that any army that got to terra could do the job. People are discussing the reinforcements that are sure to arrive. I figure by the time you've fought your way to terra the imperium would probably have wasted itself trying to stop you. After all it's not like you just appeared on Terra. you've fought throught fleet after fleet, world after world. I presume that the imperium would probably not let you get to terra and then go, "oppps, forgot to call reinforcements." Thus after you've all but crushed the rest of the imperium the palace should be a snap.

I agree, unless we are talking about Tyranids and their below-galactic-plane sneaking.

Offline Nuclearfeet

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Re: What would it take to storm the Imperial Palace?
« Reply #52 on: December 6, 2005, 07:31:39 PM »
question: does it have to be from the WH40k universe...you did say what we would take.  :)

If it doesn't carry that restriction, I'd say an army of 2000 or so T-1000's  :)
« Last Edit: December 6, 2005, 07:33:25 PM by nuclearfeet »
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Offline chaos0xomega

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Re: What would it take to storm the Imperial Palace?
« Reply #53 on: December 6, 2005, 07:49:01 PM »
No, one hundred thousand t-1 millions. Ever go to universal studioes in florida? Did you see the terminator show? Do you know what Im talkin' 'bout?

Anyway, any army that could get to Terra would likely be able to take it, unless they suffer too many casualties.

But if I could take anything from any other scifi - Borg. Lots and lots of Borg. Every last borg in the Star Trek universe - and sick them on mars, techpriest would get turned into borg, some probably willfully, then just beam on board enemy ships and keep assimilating till everything is borg! And imperial weapons wouldnt get very far either!
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Offline Shade, Bankai King

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Re: What would it take to storm the Imperial Palace?
« Reply #54 on: December 6, 2005, 07:55:39 PM »
With all those physcers i would say that chaos greater daemons possesing the phsycers then  producing more daemons.
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Offline masterian

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Re: What would it take to storm the Imperial Palace?
« Reply #55 on: December 6, 2005, 08:31:44 PM »
10,000 necron warriors
1,000 monoliths
5,000 destroyers
2,001 heavy destroyers (2,001 DAMNIT!)
Both C'tan
Pariahs and Immortals galore...
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Offline ultima_eldar

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Re: What would it take to storm the Imperial Palace?
« Reply #56 on: December 6, 2005, 08:51:41 PM »
you guys are thinking too grand
flood the entire world in liquified wraithbone then sit back and watch it harden ;D

Offline Erenthal

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Re: What would it take to storm the Imperial Palace?
« Reply #57 on: December 6, 2005, 09:12:17 PM »
I flat out refuse to believe for one second that Terra alone can muster an army greater in size than an entire Tyranid Hive Fleet.

And I seriously doubt you can get 500 billion people in the sphere of space occupied by Earth, forgetting for a minute that a lot of that can't be used.

500 billion people is peanuts.

Terra is covered from pole to pole with habitation. This habitation stretches from 3-4 kilometers below the surface, to 10+ kilometers above ground in places.

I would say that 500 billion is a very conservative number.
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Offline Nuclearfeet

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Re: What would it take to storm the Imperial Palace?
« Reply #58 on: December 7, 2005, 12:30:55 AM »
2 words: Death Star

Or about a thousand Bug Bombs...you know, the ones from the Starship Troopers movie?
« Last Edit: December 7, 2005, 12:32:07 AM by nuclearfeet »
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Offline DrewTheBlack

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Re: What would it take to storm the Imperial Palace?
« Reply #59 on: December 7, 2005, 12:39:41 AM »
You make it sound to easy "any army that could get to Terra would likely be able to take it, unless they suffer too many casualties."

With the size of the imperial fleet there is no army out there that could match the Imperial fleets. they are just to big and powerful.
And the raven, never flitting, still is sitting, still is sitting. On the pallid bust of Pallas just above my chamber door;
And his eyes have all the seeming of a demon's that is dreaming. And the lamplight o'er him streaming throws his shadow on the floor;
And my soul from out that shadow that lies floating on the floor Shall be lifted---
nevermore!

 


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