Topic: [5th Ed] Guide on How To Best Equip Your Tyranids

[Akaiyou]

DISCLAIMER: PLEASE GET A CODEX AND READ IT FIRST.
It is assumed by some of the reviewers that you have read your codex.

"So, I'm hereby starting a tactical discussion about the current 40k-Tyranid Army.

Point beeing too start a discussion about every option in the current Codex, starting with the HQ's, and working ourselves through the pages." - modified quote from Minsc.

Table of Contents
*Please note, that the linked-to post is just the subject starter, talk about the diffrent units carries on for the next few post or pages.*

Hive Tyrant
Tyrant Guard
Broodlord - Broodlord Retinue
Warrior Brood
Lictor
Genestealer Brood
Gaunt Brood
Hormagaunt Brood
Ripper Swarms
Ravener
Gargoyle Brood
Spore Mine Cluster
Zoanthropes
Carnifex


HIVE TYRANT
My analysis
BIOMORPHS
Acid Maw - YES - Is better than Bio-plasma, make your hits count in CC
Adrenal Glands (I) - YES - great for CC
Adrenal Glands (WS) - YES - great for CC
Bio-Plasma - NO - Acid Maw is simply better and you can't take both.
Enhanced Senses - YES - Must have for shooting.
Extended Carapace - NO - Too many points, Warp Field better. You can easily get a lot of Cover Saves in 5th edition.
Flesh Hooks - MAYBE - Useful only for CC Tyrants. And only against units huggin cover.
Implant Attack - YES - great for CC specially against characters. Do not take if you are not planning on fighting multi-wound models.
Symbiote Rippers - NO - Pointless upgrade.
Toxic Miasma - YES - must have in CC
Toxin Sacs - YES - always take this biomorph!
Winged - YES - Extremely useful makes your Tyrant really fast able to reach opponent faster.

WEAPON SYMBIOTES
Close Combat
=========
Lash Whip & Bonesword - MAYBE - If you want Catalyst this is great. It's a good upgrade on a CC or MIXED Tyrant (walk and shoot). Otherwise there's better stuff.
Rending Claws - NO - useless upgrade, specially with new Rending rules.
Scything Talons - YES - Best choise for CC.


Ranged
=====
Barbed Strangler - YES - Good against infantry.
Venom Cannon - YES - Great against light tanks and even light armor infantry.
Spinefists - NO - That's a waste for a Tyrant.
TL Barbed Strangler - YES - Great against infantry.
TL Devourer - YES - overall the best shooty weapon for the Tyrant vs infantry. 2 of these will decimate any type of infantry.
TL Deathspitter - MAYBE - Haven't experimented with these but could be useful. I'd still rather let warriors handle these tho.
TL Venom Cannon - MAYBE - If you want to guarantee the damage then take it. Otherwise you have better options as this can be a VERY pricey configuration.

PSYCHIC POWERS
Catalyst - NO - If you want this power use Bonesword.
Psychic Scream - YES - Very useful against non-fearless units. This power works best when you keep a squad of zoanthropes with the same power close.
The Shadow In The Warp - NO - All other powers are more useful.
Warp Blast - YES - Always a good choice on a CC Tyrant if you want to do some light shooting before getting in combat. Otherwise always take the next power.
Warp Field - YES - hands down the best psychic power since it's our only way of getting an invulnerable. however be warned that since we can now get cover saves from our own units this has lost some of it's usefulness but all in all it works really well with a Winged Tyrant of any kind. If you are adding wings, take this power!


Recommended Configurations To Use
   1 Hive Tyrant @ 196 Pts
      Enhanced Senses +1 BS; Toxin Sacs +1 St; Winged; Twin-linked Devourer (x2); Warp Field

- This guys is a total monster against infantry, will land about 9 - 10 wounds on damn near any kind of enemy infantry. Rating 10/10 (Fast Anti-Infantry)

   1 Hive Tyrant @ 137 Pts
      Enhanced Senses +1 BS; Toxin Sacs +1 St; Twin-linked Barbed Strangler

- Cheap! And highly useful against all types of infantry. the str 5 big template will let you wound most things on 2s or 3s, and still hurt the tougher infantry models on 4s. With the possibility of pinning any unit it damages. Rating 10/10 (Ranged Anti-Infantry + Very Cheap)

   1 Hive Tyrant @ 129 Pts
      Enhanced Senses +1 BS; Toxin Sacs +1 St; Barbed Strangler; Twin-linked Devourer (x1);

- Cheapest tyrant. Great for moving synapse, within 18" of an enemy infantry unit will decimate whatever it hits. Rating 9/10 (Ridiculously Cheap Anti-Infantry)


   1 Hive Tyrant @ 225 Pts
      Acid Maw; Adrenal Glands +1 In; Adrenal Glands +1 WS; Implant Attack; Toxic Miasma; Toxin Sacs +1 St; Winged; Scything Talons (x2); Warp Field

- Character killer. He's really strong but that will work against you, opponents normally get scared when they see him approaching and will try to shoot him down so move him behind cover if you need to make him run behind other models to get a cover save and procted him until you are in range to attack. Rating 8/10 (Very Specialized Unit + Pricey)


   1 Hive Tyrant @ 157 Pts
      Enhanced Senses +1 BS; Toxin Sacs +1 St; Barbed Strangler; Venom Cannon

- Dual purpose Tyrant able to take on light tanks and infantry from a good range! Very useful and versatile. Rating 8/10 (Ranged Versatile)


   1 Hive Tyrant @ 149 Pts
      Enhanced Senses +1 BS; Toxin Sacs +1 St; Twin-linked Devourer (x1); Venom Cannon

- Dual purpose Tyrant. Best use as a forward synapse unit can damage light tanks and cause good damage to infantry before possibly assaulting them. He can pump 9 shots into infantry with about 6-8 wounds guaranteed each time. keep him behind other models to get cover saves. Rating 7/10 (Versatile Anti-Infantry/Light Tanks)


   1 Hive Tyrant @ 177 Pts
      Enhanced Senses +1 BS; Toxin Sacs +1 St; Twin-linked Venom Cannon

- Anti-Light/Medium armor Vehicles. This guy can keep any mid armor vehicle at bay! Do not expect to destroy vehicles but rather expect to easily incapacitate them. He comes in handy working together with a group of sniper fexes against heavy MECH armies. Rating 6/10 (Very Specialized + Pricey + Carnifexes perform the task much better)

[Lord Alliben]

   1 Hive Tyrant @ 149 Pts
      Enhanced Senses +1 BS; Toxin Sacs +1 St; Twin-linked Devourer (x1); Venom Cannon.

- This is your 'walk and shoot' Tyrant keep him behind other models to get cover saves.

This guy isn't really optimized for ANY particular role. The devourers aren't any good against vehicles and the venom cannon doesn't have enough shots to be very good against infantry. Besides that, if you keep him ranged he will only ever fire the venom cannon. If you bring him in close you're basically wasting the purpose of the 36" range. I think it would be really tough for this config to make it's points back. I'd suggest you just go with twin-devourers as venom cannons are better anti-tank on carnifexes.

   1 Hive Tyrant @ 196 Pts
      Enhanced Senses +1 BS; Toxin Sacs +1 St; Winged; Twin-linked Devourer (x2); Warp Field

- This guys is a total monster against infantry. USE HIM. Highly Recommended

Wow. That's a LOT of points... I'd say get rid of the warp field or take off the wings AND warp field. Winged dakka tyrants are good but keeping your bugs cheap makes them more expendable. You're dropping points on warp field that could easily be spent on something more effective. It's not like you'd be losing any offensive punch by taking off the field.

   1 Hive Tyrant @ 225 Pts
      Acid Maw; Adrenal Glands +1 In; Adrenal Glands +1 WS; Implant Attack; Toxic Miasma; Toxin Sacs +1 St; Winged; Scything Talons (x2); Warp Field

- Character killer. He's really strong but that will work against you, opponents normally get scared when they see him approaching and will try to shoot him down so move him behind cover if you need to make him run behind other models to get a cover save and procted him until you are in range to attack.

You're right. This would be an awesome character killer. Unfortunately, not many characters are going to cost what this guy does. I'd imagine it would be hard to make your points back with this guy. (Does it sound like I'm repeating myself here?) All in all I don't think this config is particularly "bad" or anything. Just expensive. It would probably be pretty good against other bugs (warriors and MC's) or against ork nobz and the like. Still, this guy's more of a specialist only to be used when you know what you're up against.

my 2 cents.

P.S. "procted?" Is that anything like proctologist? 

[Lucky_Jackal]

Catalyst is MORE important then ever! Only of the reasons I'd realy considering a lashwhip/bonesword.

But in the end the hive tyrant's set up and confies have remianded the same. Sything flyrant with X2 sything, W gland, and toxic sacks.

And the Daka flyrant and the sniper tyrant. (Thow you may drop the venom cannon for a diffrent gun.)

Warrioirs are the best for lugging venom cannons around. That Tyrant you sujested with venom cannon and Devowers? Other switch the venom cannon for barbed strangler, or devowers for barbed strangler.

The Barbed strangler is to goot not to take on a MC.


If anything a walking CC tyrant equiped like the sything flyrant, but instead of wings tyrant gaurd. Have to foot slog/run at the enemy. That would be a NASTY unit to hit your oppent with. But to be effective it must be kept as keep as you can get it. I'm thinking 2x sything, W gland, toxic sack, (Maby toxic miasma?)

It would be more survivable, thow slower. But would also be more nasty in CC. Specily if the gaurd are given lash whips all the better.

[Marine In Training]

the winged dakkarant is a beast against infantry units, especially smaller ones which you really want to kill.  the speed of it means you will be able to get first turn shots off, which in itself can pay the 40 pt cost to get wings.  a cheap and effective upgrade is giving it implant attacks - it doubles its effectiveness against characters for a very cheap price.

the CC flyrant is a beast, and i highly reccommend it to anyone.  just do not charge it in to combat blindly - use it as a sledgehammer.  keep it back and provide synapse, and when you need that heavy hitting assault unit in combat, throw it into the melee.

the dakkarant can be used effectively without wings, so is suited as a secondary tyrant.

i must say though, there are more effective ways of getting a venom cannon in your army, if you really find a need for it.  the tyrant should be used to optimize the damage it can do, the damage it can sustain, and provide synapse.  nothing more.  that goes for any tyranid unit.

as for psychic powers - i never take anything but psychic scream.  warp blast is too unreliable, and warp field is way too expensive for its worth. 

as an alternative that i have been toying with for the cc flyrant - instead of a second set of scything talons, get him a bone sword and lash whip.  a -1 attacks to opponants (halves the damage units like terminators can do against you), and the ability to cast catalyst on units sounds like a good idea.  he's still more than sufficient to kill a character, and he's good enough to kill lots of little infantry, so this should be worthwhile.  this will give him a little more versatility and surviveability against a large number of opponants.

also, if you're playing an apoc game, having shadow of the warp is a great biomorph for a secondary tyrant.  in most games it sucks however.

[Akaiyou]

TYRANT GUARD
My analysis
BIOMORPHS
Flesh Hooks - YES - Very useful, low point cost.
Implant Attack - NO - Do not take this UNLESS you are certain that you can get these guys into CC with Multi-wound models. Most players will steer their characters away from a Tyrant Guard brood so it tends to be a waste of points.

WEAPON SYMBIOTES
Lash Whip - MAYBE - Situational, works very well against things with a lot of attacks but is pointless against normal units which you are likely to be fighting most of the time. Also ST are just a better upgrade.
Scything Talons - YES - Best choise for CC gives better chance at RENDING.

Recommended Configurations To Use
I recommend a full squad of 3. I find that anything below a full brood is just not very effective and gets taken out with ease. leave 'em standard with ST and maybe upgrade them with fleshhooks if you have extra points after building your whole army.

[Marine In Training]

if your opponant knows you have tyrant guard with implant attacks, then they definately will stay away.  this is incredibly useful to deter characters and other multi-wound units from assaulting these guard.  this is very effective with a shooty tyrant IMO.

as for the lash whips, it is a cheap upgrade that will keep pesky units of terminators, or other multi-attack units away.  it is also a worthwhile upgrade for a shooty tyrant IMO.

both of these allow shooty tyrants to pose a bigger threat in combat, which will keep opponants out of combat, and allow the tyrant to keep shooting.



and as for the size of the unit, just one can be an effective size depending on the size of the game.  if you've taken a shooty tyrant in a 1K game, taking 3 tyrant guard will be overkill as a bodyguard.  taking 1 bodyguard is not enough of a meat shield for an apoc game however.  you have to judge the size of the unit according to the size of the game you're playing.



tyrant guard should be used primarily to guard a shooty secondary tyrant.  your primary tyrant should have wings instead of a bodyguard.

[Lucky_Jackal]

I agree. only a secondary tyrant should have body gaurds. The wings on your primery are just TOO GOOD to take.

I also feel the gaurd with lash whips are a good option if your 2nd tyrant is a CC tyrant.

The tyrant has alot going for it, and can be CC geared just as much as a fex if not better.

A hivetyrant with a bone sword/lash whip, sything talons, any CC upgrades you want, and some Gaurd would be a scary CC unit to face down. I'd my self give the gaurd lash whips and the tyrant implant attack.

[Codeman90]

Uh Extended Carapace is very useful for tyrants that arent flying. The only thing warpfield gives you thats different is 6+ invul. Which is awful to depend on.

Alot of cover saves? you do know that if your opponent can see at least half of the model you dont get a cover save.

[Changeyname]

actually no, the wording is "any part" of the model in cover, half applies to units, not models
hence the original point stands

[Codeman90]

The Hive Tyrant is a monstrous creature and the rule for cover saves on monstrous creatures is the same as tanks. Over 50% has to be in cover to get a cover save. 

NOTE: Actually 50% of the creature has to be hidden from view to get a cover save

[Changeyname]

yup sorry my bad, you're right
 too many rules, so little time lol
plus im tired

[Codeman90]

dun worry its k  =p

[Soul_Flayer]

The only thing that i dont like about using hormagaunts as a shield like that is that a base 10 point meat shield is going to hurt you points wise.  but still, thats better that losing a sniperfex

[ZethEphdel]

I'll give my analysis on the units in the Tyranid Codex. I personally like all units in the codex and choosing which units to use is always hard, here it goes:

Hive Tyrant - Excellent unit that can do anthing you want. You want antitank, go with a venom cannon or warp field. They can be winged so that they can be very fast and devastating. With twin-linked devourers and barbed stranglers they can be very good against infantry. In close combat they can be devastating against characters, specialised close combat units or large squads of infantry depending on what upgrades you give him. Being a monstrous creatures they are always good against tanks. They can also hold up the support role with psychic scream and catalyst abilities. They can even have a retinue of tyrant guard to make a close combat tyrant even better and durable or a shooty tyrant very effective in combat as well. No real weakness.

Broodlord - great. With the outflanking ability they can come on a flank and wipe out anything they happen to be in close combat with. With rending they can wipe out vehicles, but they should try and get in with some infantry or monstrous creatures. Great for forward synapse and destruction. Low speed would be his weaness, but with outflanking, its not much of a weakness.

Warriors - Another unit that can be tooled to do anything you want. They can multitask pretty well with a deathspitter/devourer and scything talons/rending claws depending on your preference. I personally like deathspitters and scything talons because of their longer range, AP, high strength, and decent close combat abilities. They can also be only ranged and be very devastating with twin-linked deathspitters or devourers. In close combat they can be given wings or leaping, scything talons and rending claws to be a good forward synapse and a good close combat unit. Like most things, low amor is their weakness.

Lictors - With their unique deepstriking rules, they are hard not too like. Feeder tendrils, high strength, ws, and initiative make him a good close combat character, but he can easily be overwhelmed. This means that you need to use him to hit small units as an assassin, or as a support character to help units in close combat and to fear your opponents to stay away from cover. Very squishy with low armor.

Genestealers - devastating. fast and tough compared to the rest of the tyranid troop choices. With scuttlers they can outflank, with extended carapace they can be quite durable, and with scything talons/acid maw/feeder tendrils and the like they can be more and more devastating in combat. I prefer scuttlers and flesh hooks to come in and wipe out a confident unit in cover. Relatively low armor, even upgraded.

Gaunts - The hoard of the army. Fearless and not bad at shooting once they get in range. My personal favorite for holding objectives. With without number and ranged warriors all sitting in cover they will hold the objective all game. Anything that tries to contest gets in range of termagaunt range and gets a lot of shots put on them. Terrible armor save.

Hormagaunts - Really fast. With fleet and a 12" charge they will into close combat by turn two. I recommend large squads preferably around 20+ with a 16 minimum. With that many guys they can really put in damage. I wouldn't recommend anything more upgraded than 12 points a piece. Terrible armor save.

Rippers - Fun. With spinefists and enhanced senses, you get a cheap unit with a lot of shots that can get in close combat and tarpit like the rest of them. You can also give them leaping which is a very nice surprise against the advancing enemy close combat unit. Terrible armor save and only unit that can be instant killed.

Raveners - Not as good in fifth edition. A large squad can still be devastating and can run up with hormagaunts to help put out some damage. Deepstiking and ranged weapons not recommended. Terrible armor save and has problems not being able to have any biomorphs. Would benefit from flesh hooks or others.

Gargoyles - Probably my least favorite unit in the tyrnanid army, but still quite good. Fast and as effective as gaunts in shooting and better in close combat with bio-plasma. Expensive for their bad armor save, has more of a problem using cover with dangerous terrain tests.

Spore Mines - Great for disruption. Toxin mines or frag mines can be used for disruption tactics while the bio-acid mines are cheap and have a decent chance to take out vehicles. One hit wonders.

Zoanthropes - psychic mines of the tyrnanids. Can provide tough synapse with a 2+ save, 2 wounds and toughness 4. Can also be good ranged units with warp blast against infantry and tanks, although aren't terribly reliable against tanks with low bs. Can be good support units with psychic scream and catalyst like the tyrant. Can be overwhelmed pretty easily only being one model.

Biovores - Long range. with the longest range in the tyrnanid army they definitely have something to offer. In terms of offensive power, they aren't great. Bio-acid mines have a chance at tank hunting and piercing that pesky marine armor. Toxin mines are more for Geq and frag really for just cheap disruption. Terrible armor save, if they get touched they die.

Carnifex - Another do what you want unit. With such high straight, these things can really do some damage. Now that they can run they are more of a threat in close combat and once they get in they really kill things, tanks or infantry. Ranged they can be good antitank or good infantry. Can be good sniper units with high strength 36" range weapons or 8 twin-linked devourer shots at 18" inches. These are beasts which really should be taken no matter what game your in (of decent point values 1000+). Like the tyrant, not really a weakness.

Not sure if this helps. But this is what I think about the units in the tyrnanid army. A lot of them have the same weaknesses in that a lot of our units have poor armor saves. But with speed and new outflanking tricks, we can really do some damage at full strength units.

[Grotsnik]

As a ork player fond of mega nobz, normal nobz, and biker nobz that char. killer Tyrant is possibly the most feared thing i could hope to see on a board.  Lets see ... the best way to kill it would be to shoot it right? Well crap i'm screwed.  That guy would make his points back in one round of combat then 2nd round of combat pay for himself again.  No offense but I'll never tell our local bug guy about that one.

[Akaiyou]

People please let's follow the rules of the thread and do it one codex entry at a time, it avoids confusion and promotes better discussion. The readers can more easily look at the thread and see the info on the specific unit they want as well.

BROODLORD
My analysis
BIOMORPHS
Acid Maw - NO - This upgrade is always useful specially with the change to the rending rules however it is costly and you need to sacrifice Feeder Tendrils and Implant Attack upgrades. Which makes this the least desired of the 3.

Adrenal Glands (I) - NO - Not needed unless facing some seriously fast characters.

Extended Carapace - MAYBE - Gives him a 3+ save which is definetly better than 4+ but still very vulnerable so how useful it is, depends on how well you can hide your Broodlord.

Feeder Tendrils - YES - The prefered upgrade to anything else for the Broodlord as it is the ONLY WAY that you can get a group of genestealers to get preferred enemy with only one model in the unit having to pay the point cost for the tendrils. Due to his infiltrate rule the Broodlord is also a VERY good choice to accompany your first wave and provide them with preferred enemy at a very cheap cost.

Flesh Hooks - YES - Very useful, should always be taken.

Implant Attack - MAYBE - The broodlord is a very very good character killer when equipped with Implant Attack. Makes every unsaved wound count for 2, normally you'd only need to make the target fail 2 invulnerable saves and he's gone. On the downside the upgrade can be an expensive one and it prevents you from taking the much desired Feeder Tendrils. So take implant attack if you are wanting to assasinate some multi-wound models and already have a few units in your army with feeder tendrils.

Toxin Sacs - MAYBE -  A bit high on the price tag but very useful specially against characters who tend to have toughness 5. If you are planning on taking implant attack then take toxin sacs as well and you will almost always destroy your target before they get a chance to retaliate.


Recommended Configurations To Use
   1 Broodlord @ 86 Pts
      Extended Carapace +1 Save; Feeder Tendrils; Flesh Hooks

- This guy is great to provide preferred enemy while remaining relatively cheap and effective. Remember he's an independent character and as such he CAN join other units! So if his retinue get's destroyed make sure to join another unit to keep him alive! Rating 10/10

   1 Broodlord @ 95 Pts
      Flesh Hooks; Implant Attack; Toxin Sacs +1 St

- This guy is a character killer! a monster of 1 on 1 combat. He'll be able to kill most of the opponent's characters without a problem, he doesnt have EC because if you are goin against characters, they will NOT allow you a save so it'll be a waste of points. So just keep this broodlord hidden in his unit until you can strike the enemy. This guy and go up against the character killer Tyrant and give him a run for his money and in comparison he's very cheap. Remember all infantry can run! so always run when possible. Rating 8/10

[FifthWindDieGermanator]

Both your Broodlord entries are illegal.

You must have at least 5 Genestealers with him, to a max of 11.

[Lonewolf]

Ok guys, if you somehow manage to keep this thread flame free for another couple of days, i am going to sticky it and remove the old tactical sticky.

[Lucky_Jackal]

I think that Troop stealers and Broodlord's personal stealers are two diffrent beasts. They must be approtched speratly if were going to review each unit at a time like this.


My self I've just got a broodloord and still don't realy know how I should equip him and his stealers. Even more so now that it's 5th edtion.

My orginal plan was a vinillia brood lord, and 5 stealers with EC and sything talons. But now that feeder tendrils are so awsome I figured feeder tendrills are a MUST now?

[Changeyname]

yeh but only on the lord to save points as he'll benefit the entire brood...