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Author Topic: Are orks good now?  (Read 1441 times)

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Offline *Box*

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Are orks good now?
« on: January 26, 2008, 09:25:58 PM »
Are orcs a competitive army viable for tournament play now.
Back in business.

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So how does 540+20D6 attacks grab you?

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Offline Terro

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Re: Are orks good now?
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2008, 09:28:16 PM »
In short, yes.

They have the best counters to eldar skimmers currently, and can field an enourmous number of models.

Offline OD from TV

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Re: Are orks good now?
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2008, 11:13:10 PM »
The real question is can you wield the army in a competitive manner.

If you overboard on the "cool" stuff like 3 units of 15 Lootas, 3 units of 5 Deffkoptas, 2 Warbosses in Mega Armor, 2 units of 10 Mega Nobz and 3 units of Killa Kans, well you are not going to have a very effective army (at least not in my estimation).

You have to balance the hordes of boyz between the fun (and expensive) options in the dex.  If you only use Elite Boyz (and I don't mean the elite section) then you miss out on the real core of the army, which is Slugga Boyz.  Sure Shoota Boyz are viable alternatives, and some would say that they exceed Sluggas in the new dex, but it really boils down to opinion.

If you just want to play to win, play SM.  They are cheesier then the whole state of Wisconsin (where cheese is cheese, no offense intended to citizens of Wisconsin).

If you want to play an army that will make the game fun, and swarm your enemy with a green tide of warriors then Orks are definitely for you.  They won't win every game, but they are the most fun you'll have in 40k.

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Offline Aluinn

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Re: Are orks good now?
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2008, 06:11:18 AM »
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If you just want to play to win, play SM.  They are cheesier then the whole state of Wisconsin (where cheese is cheese, no offense intended to citizens of Wisconsin).

I think everyone plays to win, at some level. It might not be your primary goal, but everyone prefers it to losing, all other things being equal. You can cheese out SM, but so can you cheese out almost anything else. Orks used to be one of the armies that you maybe couldn't fully powergame with. Now, I think you can powergame with them, if you want. But of course, as with other armies, including SM and Eldar, you don't have to take a power list.

But what is the power Ork list? Well, I'd speculate right now that it's probably an enormous horde of Boyz. Slugga and Shoota are both good, and I think some mix is probably ideal. But the most broken thing in the new book is probably plain ol' Boyz, just because they're so absurdly cheap. There are still some arguable points though, such as whether 20 or 30 is the best unit size, and whether Shoota Boyz should ever have rokkits or Slugga Boyz should ever have big shootas. In the end, I think if you take a really huge number of them, and they aren't in squads of less than 20, you'll have some game.

On the other hand, because they are so cheap, you can take mobs of 12 Boyz in trukks and still field a LOT of them, and give your opponent really too many trukks to kill easily, so that may be a viable option for a super-competitive list too.

Then, though, they need to be supported, and there is a lot more room for debate there too. A lot of people were really excited about Zagstrukk, for example, but I haven't heard a great lot of praise for him since the codex has been released. You can take a bunch of Kans and some Dreads, or you can take Lootas and Big Gunz. You can take Weirboyz for extra Waaagh!s or Big Meks to give advancing Boyz a cover save. You can put a Warboss on a bike and tool him up, and have a combat monster comparable to a winged Hive Tyrant or a Daemon Prince. I think that all those options are very powerful, though some are better in certain situations. There seem to be almost too many good choices for Orks right now.

I suppose in very general terms, the supporting units for a footslogging horde of Orks should either tie up enemy shooting units early in the game or be good at killing enemy vehicles, and so have some mixture of speed, anti-armor capability, and close combat ability (though not necessarily all three). But that encompasses so many Ork choices that it doesn't help a lot in deciding how to build an army, in terms of the finer details.

It will certainly take someone better at this game than I am, and more purely dedicated to winning, to come up with a totally optimized Ork list. In the meantime, I'll take something that can win at the level at which people play in my local games store, and that includes models I like, and be happy with it.

Offline Macman_EKIM

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Re: Are orks good now?
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2008, 08:56:43 PM »
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They are cheesier then the whole state of Wisconsin (where cheese is cheese, no offense intended to citizens of Wisconsin).

Hey I live in Wisconsin  >:(

lol

Actualy I have been hearing some nasty things about the new ork dex, and I have seen an ork army just walk all over a very experienced chaos player I know. And well it kinda makes me want to build an ork army, Im feeling a little green at the moment.

I was thinking of just spaming some super cheap boyz, How well would that perform? I would like a semi compedative army, nothing to take to a tourny or anything just something that is fun to play with that can hang with most other lists out there. What units would I used to accomplish that?
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Offline Boss Hussar

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Re: Are orks good now?
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2008, 11:04:12 PM »
Infantry squads can take more punishment than a tank. I suppose thats the reason everyone love marines. Bearing that in mind, a army made purely of Ork Boyz would be (besides a pain in the @$% in the movement phase) very difficult to kill in time. Pure Ork Boyz (with some supporting infantry specialist like Tankbustas) could be a lethal combination.

However, being Orks, we will almost definately want to use some fun units like Dreads and Warbikes.
Orks... They rule.

Offline Shizukanashi

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Re: Are orks good now?
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2008, 05:11:29 AM »
In short, yes.

They have the best counters to eldar skimmers currently, and can field an enourmous number of models.

I am a long time Eldar player and am just starting the Orks (and loving them by the way, maybe more than my eldar)  I was just curious to what are you refering here?  Deff Rollers, ZZap guns?  I just want to take a look and see what it is I need to include and/or avoid in my games.  Thanks a bunch.
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Offline Locarno

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Re: Are orks good now?
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2008, 06:17:18 AM »
One warning in a tournament environment;

Games are time-limited. That means turns are time-limited and since you're a footslogging assault army, a goff list suffers more than most armies if you don't finish your full allowance of turns (since you loose turns of close combat and don't get to use your awesome ability to take attrition to the full).

When considering a 120+ model list, that's a big issue. You can move the army fast, but not taking your time will leave the boyz bunched up, which means they're jam to area-effect weapons.

Speed freaks have always been one of the nasty tournament lists, and with a full Ramshackle trukk of 12 boyz with a power klaw/bosspole nob now only 142 points, you can field one of the swarmiest assault armies going. Rokkit deth koptas are great snipers and objective grabbers, and battlewagons provide an even better heavy screen than they did previously.

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I am a long time Eldar player and am just starting the Orks (and loving them by the way, maybe more than my eldar)  I was just curious to what are you refering here?  Deff Rollers, ZZap guns?  I just want to take a look and see what it is I need to include and/or avoid in my games.  Thanks a bunch.

1) Grabba klaws.

Klunk! No skimmer-moving-fast for you.....no movement at all, in fact....
Krunch! ....and now the wrecking ball.

2) Lootas.

If there's one thing floaty eldar armies hate, it's the autocannon. 450 points gets the orks thirty autocannons. Even BS2 becomes an irrelevancy with that kind of firepower.

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Offline psi_tinman

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Re: Are orks good now?
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2008, 09:49:48 AM »
Infantry squads can take more punishment than a tank. I suppose thats the reason everyone love marines. Bearing that in mind, a army made purely of Ork Boyz would be (besides a pain in the @$% in the movement phase) very difficult to kill in time. Pure Ork Boyz (with some supporting infantry specialist like Tankbustas) could be a lethal combination.

However, being Orks, we will almost definately want to use some fun units like Dreads and Warbikes.
the funnyist is the shokk gun hands down don't even front

Offline psi_tinman

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Re: Are orks good now?
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2008, 10:00:43 AM »
for the army list you should always pick ether fast (speed freak list) or slow and big (footslogger list) i tryed to make a kombi of the two and it was ok but i only was close to beating the SM army was because my shokk gun had raaghed 1 and 1/2 of his squads on the 2nd turn.

Offline Locarno

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Re: Are orks good now?
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2008, 10:56:49 AM »
If trying to combine 'fast' and 'slow' units, then the key thing to remember is that the 'fast' stuff's role isn't to win combats, it's to tie things down until the main punch arrives.

As a result, numbers - and hence durability - are the priority for the fast stuff....

I'd be tempted to suggest combining regular stormboyz with a sizable stormboyz korps.
Stormboyz are as fast as hell and - unlike trukk boyz - are big enough to be fearless.
Plus Stormboyz are a classic Goff unit.

List out of hat...

Warboss with Kombi-skorcha, 'Eavy Armour and Big Choppa

22 Ork Boyz with 2 Rokkit Launchas and a Nob with a Power Klaw and Bosspole
(led by warboss)

23 Ork Boyz with 2 Rokkit Launchas and a Nob with a Power Klaw and Bosspole

23 Ork Boyz with 2 Rokkit Launchas and a Nob with a Power Klaw and Bosspole

20 Stormboyz with a Nob with a Power Klaw

20 Stormboyz with a Nob with a Power Klaw

20 Stormboyz with a Nob with a Power Klaw

1500 points exactly. 131 orks are scary enough to start with, but sixty of them have rokkit packs! With 12" move and the extra d6" rokkit move, they will hit you on turn 2. Have fun trying to stop them...


Stories to read....
Songs of Earth
The Will to Survive Series

Tervigon Army List:
Games Played: 35
Termagants expended for the Hive Mind: ~2685

 


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