Topic: Opinions on this 2000pt List

[amimmortal]

Evening all,

This is my first attempt at a list from the new codex...

My opponent is a Marine player (Red Scorpions) but he has access to some daemonhunter and witch hunter units he could take as allies etc (he's sprung that on me before).

List as follows:

HQ: Daemon Prince w/ MoS, Wings and LoS - 155pts

Elite: 5x Chaos Terminators: 2x Champions (one w/ pair of LCs), Heavy Flamer, Power Fist, Chain Fist, Combi-Melta, Combi-Flamer, IoS - 235pts

Troop: 10x Khorne Berserkers w/ Skull Champion w/ Power Weapon, Plasma Pistol & Personal Icon, plus 2x Plasma Pistols, mounted in Rhino w/ Havoc Launcher - 340pts

Troop: 8x Thousand Sons w/ Aspiring Sorceror, Bolt of Change, Melta Bombs, Personal Icon - 279pts

Troop: 10x Chaos Space Marines w/ Aspiring Champion w/ Power Fist & Plasma Pistol, Melta Gun, Flamer, IoN - 270pts

Fast Attack: 5x Chaos Raptors w/ Aspiring Champion w/ Pair of LCs, plus plasma Pistol, Flamer and IoS - 180pts

Fast Attack: 2x Chaos Spawn - 80pts

Heavy Support: Land Raider w/ Havoc Launcher - 235pts

Heavy Support: 3x Obliterators - 225pts.

Total - 1999pts.

Cheers,
AC

[pepsi]

The khorne berzerkers I have no complaints about, though I could argue about the plasma pistol, I usually take it anyways.

The prob is that rhinos with havoc launchers are reduced movment wise. For a khorne berzerker squad with a rhino be sure to equip to move

10 khorne berzerker (whatever you decide to include) w rhino. Rhinos come with smoke launchers, and they are either killed outright, or not.

However I could argue using chaos space marines, with a havoc launcher rhino, the idea of being able to sit back and shoot at tyranids, or orks, before they get to me offers that firesupport I kind of lack. And I can still hide behind a tank if it came to it.

or if I need to run, I can embark and RUN LIKE HELL.

[Minsc]

It looks pretty solid, however:

- BoChange on the Thousand Sons, is either a waste of a expensive AT-shot, or a waste of 7/14 precsious AP3 shots.
In my opinion, you should always give the Asp Sorc Doombolt. Much cheaper, and fits the purpose of the group alot more.

- Whats with the personal Icons on the Sons and Berzerkers?
The Terminators will probably sit in the Landraider, and so wont benefit from them.
The Prince shouldn't deepstrike, its too risky, and you don't get to use LoS untill he gets down.
The Obliterators should start on the ground, so they can use their weapons from turn 1.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Spawns cant Deepstrike, and lastly, Raptors should follow the prince around since turn 1, not Deepstrike.

- Ditch one of the Terminator Champions, and replace him with a second Pair of L.Claws.
Its the same amount of attacks, except that you get to reroll to wound on 3 extra attacks.

- Personally I'm not a big fan of Plasma Pistols at all (blowing up your expensive champions? No thanks.), but if it suits your playstyle...

- Lastly, Havoc Launchers are ok, but since both the Land Raider and the Rhino are used as transports, they should get Extra Armour instead, so they always (well, almost) can be on the move.

My 2 cents.

/Minsc

[tzeentchling]

First off, welcome to the new codex!

Getting to the list, I would prefer extra armor on the Rhino in place of a havoc launcher, and Daemonic Possession over a havoc launcher on the CLR - movement is better than firepower for transports.  Not sure about the plasma pistol on the Berzerker champ, but to each their own.  Likewise, I'd rather see a meltagun on the Raptors than a plasma pistol - much more useful from the same range, and you still keep your bolt pistol for close combat anyway.  If there's a way to increase the size of the Raptors, do it, because 5 will not be very effective at this points level.

Don't know if you really need all the options on the Terminator squad, though they're useful, of course.  If looking for points I might start trimming here.  Also, as above, there's no real need for personal icons - you have no daemons, and I'm not sure you want to deep strike your Terminators or Obliterators either.  Speaking of which, since you have the slots, it might be better to split them up into a group of 2 and a group of 1, for more versatility.

I like Bolt of Change - it has the same range as your bolters, and packs a punch.  Doombolt can't hit at range like it can.  More Rhinos would be good, though, for this and for the Marine squad, if you have them - one Rhino won't last very long, and all your squads have short-range weaponry.  The Icon of Nurgle on that squad is quite pricy, so test it out and see if it's really worth so much, keeping in mind that you can get 3 marines and another flamer for its cost!

[amimmortal]

First off, thanks for all the replies. I took the advice under consideration, and owing mainly to a lack of time, I went ahead with the list.

My opponent fielded something like the following:

HQ: Terminator Chaplain, Terminator Librarian and 6 Terminator Retinue mounted in Crusader

Elite: 5x Terminators w/ Captain

Troops: 2x 5x Tactical Marines with Plasma Cannons and Plasma Guns
Troops: 5x Marine Scouts

Fast Attack: Land Speeder Tornado (i think)

Heavy Support: 5x Devastators
Heavy Support: Land Raider.

As it happens, i never rolled a single 1 on my plasma pistols, and they proved pivotal in thinning down the 8 man terminator Squad.

The Rhino lasted the whole game and contributed to the demise of one of the tactical squads with it's combi bolter and havoc launcher.

icons (at 5pts each) were money well spent as I was able to get my Obliterators within 12" of the Land Raider to make use of the 2D6 armour penetration on their Multimeltas. Likewise, my terminators deepstruck into place and contributed their own combi-melta to immobilising and stunning the land raider in the same turn.

Daemon Prince with LoS was pivotal - what an ability! And the Thousand Sons Bolt of Change power managed to also help whittle down the large terminator squad.

In the end I won convincingly - by about 800 VPs, in a Seek and Destroy scenario.

Jobs a good 'un!

AC