News: No news is good news...

Login  |  Register

Author Topic: Why do people dislike the Ultramarines?  (Read 16565 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Archonbjorn

  • Archon
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4753
  • Where's your emperor now?
    • Vengeance of the Fallen [Dutch]
Re: Why do people dislike the Ultramarines?
« Reply #40 on: December 21, 2005, 07:21:17 AM »
@ Archon Bjorn and faithlessmonkeigh - flaming isn't allowed either. Luckily, neither of you directly insulted Tarrin, but regardless, you both came close. Keep a handle on yourselves, being provoked by silly comments doesn't excuse flaming.

Srry Lomendil I will try to keep a grip on myself next time I see such a statement. . . . .

Offline Shinguuji

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 48
Re: Why do people dislike the Ultramarines?
« Reply #41 on: December 21, 2005, 07:27:17 AM »
People, do remember, that for all you who hate ultramarines, they are the 'face' of 40k, it will not be the same if Ghazghkull, blood angels, cadian, or biel tann was the 'face' of 40k, say 40k, and people think ultramarines, they're the poster boys, the picture perfect guys, the winners, the all rounders, the kings, whatever you choose to call them...

they're one of the defining factors of 40k, sure, you might hate them, but they do lend a huge amount of definition to 40k. If i was in GW, i'll just continue promoting ultramarines...

i know you hate that marines are seemingly taking over GW, i'm a fledging ork collector, and i feel fustrated that the wartrukk is 2nd ed. and that marines always win in the fluff, however, this allows you to expand your imagination even more create more interesting fluff, etc. well...i do have a BA army, i do agree that it much easier to make and create than orks as we have all the nice updated models.....its unfair, i agree...nothing we can do about it, unless we make an appeal to GW, i dislike the recent movements to create even more chapters, like the BT, when orks and eldar needs a codex so badly, i don't think BA really needs a codex urgently, same goes for all the other chapters, except for maybe DA, and that's for deathwing only.....maybe consider writing a petition?

besdies, i think GW will concentrate on the other armies too, you just have to wait your turn, they did a great job on tyranids...

i do like ultramarines! i think they're cool, they have nice fluff, they have all the cool models, i also wanted to collect UM, but i like variety and i think warbosses are cool! i'm slightly jealous...well...i think its the jealousy that's getting to all of us here, making us hate them....

but do look at the artwork for the UM, like the marine codex, they seem so cool, so warrior-like, all the digital enchancements, all the big oranate armour, etc. the only thing i cannot stand is mr. calgar. he's extremely boring and dry, same goes for their chaplain cassius, fancy him calling his chapter master 'young calgar'(we have dante who can call you 'young cassius' trice over!), its kinda arrogant and stupid IMHO, they're both examples of dryness and arrogance, boring.....but i like the tyranid vets. and the other 'normal' marines, they perform acts of valour and is kinda heroic....

as for patining marines, here's what i have to say. They're easy to paint. no doubt about that. but you have to be pro. enough to paint them to a reasonable standard. they're like lazy models for pro painters...do a newbie job on it and it'll still look ugly and plain, not to mention the details your tatical marine has is not a lot, you REQUIRE highlighting, shadowing/darklining in order to make the miniature look nice. i don't see any problems not highlighting the more detailed eldar models, but you have to highlight marine models, because they have too much big and plain details, it'll look ugly not to add any fancy details to them....its lazy models for pro painters, or at least, non-n00b painters, of course people love them....oh, and I play menoth(oh the heresy!) so i know how irritating it is to paint cloth, faces, tiny details, etc. plus i already started on orks, so i know what it's like to paint other stuff, in truth, it's really a lazy painter's army, but good or bad depends as much on the painter's skill as in other armies...
« Last Edit: December 21, 2005, 07:33:26 AM by Shinguuji »

Offline Captain Hajime

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1696
  • 1st Regiment Fuji System
    • Captain Hajime's Warhammer Web site
Re: Why do people dislike the Ultramarines?
« Reply #42 on: December 21, 2005, 09:10:27 AM »
I don't like ultramarines, they are to clean. Oh and they remind me of Smurfs.
"Men from different wordls, with different views, bound together by loyality to the Emperor. This is what we have become." Captain Hajime
"I have remembered, I do remember, I will always remember."
Imperial Guard, Space marines and Ork Collector.
First Fuji Regiment W: 0 L:     2 D: 4
Tenno No Samurai W: 1 l: 5 D: 7

Offline Lomendil

  • Mad Prophet of Commorragh
  • Ancient
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10734
  • Country: 00
  • If it's comprehensible, it's obselete
Re: Why do people dislike the Ultramarines?
« Reply #43 on: December 21, 2005, 09:48:19 AM »
Because they're mindless fleshy pawn of the Illuminatis. Seriously. Just look at them, their all like: "Look at me  I'm a mindless fleshy pawn of the Illuminati and I pooped my pants because my armour was so blue I couldn't take it off"

See what I mean?

I can only see a pointless bit of spam. Perhaps I'm missing something... no, it's just pure spam. Don't do it again.

Offline Nuclearfeet

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1144
  • eh, wha-?
Re: Why do people dislike the Ultramarines?
« Reply #44 on: December 21, 2005, 01:51:20 PM »
ok, I've been looking at this thread for the past couple days, all the while laughing my ass off.  So I decided to take a little survey of the WH40k players in my gaming store.  I axed them if they hate Ultramarines:

5/9 Space Marine players dislike Ultramarines

3/4 Ork players dislike Ultramarines

0/3 Eldar players dislike Ultramarines  ???

5/5 Imperial Guard players dislike Ultramarines

1/1 Dark Eldar players dislike Ultramarines (I'm the only one!)

2/3 Tau players dislike Ultramarines


So there you have it, hating Ultramarines isn't exclusive to non-SM players.  Over half of the SM players in my store don't like Ultramarines.
<Insert quote here>

Offline Brother Asreus

  • Brother Captain, Resident Spokesman for Idiots.
  • Ancient
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2175
  • Closed captioned for the thinking impaired
Re: Why do people dislike the Ultramarines?
« Reply #45 on: December 21, 2005, 02:09:33 PM »
Gee, now I'm wondering if I should jump in on this or not... :D Ultramarines eh? Hmm, do I hate them?  :D I think the big thing about them for people is the promotional factor from GW and the fact that they were the basis of other SM companies. People call them boring because they have no special traits like BA, SW and so on. But you need something for all the others to be distinct, a foil if you will.

Ultramarines are made to be generic since as the poster boys for 40K you can use them to introduce people to the game without getting too involved into the rules and nit picky details. Yes they're good for beginners but they can also be fantastic for veterans too. When you look at the trait system, you can exploit it to make your army gross in many different ways. All the supposed negative traits like the BA's have also been exploited to work as an advantage, not a disadvantage. Well, if you have no traits, how can you exploit them?

I honestly believe that without an army like the Ultramarines, the game wouldn't be as popular or widespread. Can you imagine being a new player and knowing nothing of the game and being forced to learn about all the details associated to an Eldar Craftworld army? People would look at it and say: "forget it, it's too complicated".

Everybody hates on the OG's.  :D Just remember that there are two types of Ultramarines players. Those that use all the best and special units to rub it in your face and those who know about tactics and strategy and can make a good army from standard units. Hate the player, not the army.  ;) Any army can be beaten and easily if you play well, know your units and capabilities and know tactics. If you use the same tactics all the time, even with the best units you can still lose all the time.


Cthulhu for Pres in 2012!!! Why vote for the lesser of all evils?

Offline ::ËternaĺŇovice::

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 945
  • A Hippies Version of Exterminatus
Re: Why do people dislike the Ultramarines?
« Reply #46 on: December 21, 2005, 04:06:13 PM »
Lol, it's hard to hate Asreus, Ultramarine of Ultramarines, so it probably is about the player.

On the easy to learn factor of Ultramarines, that is true. There aren't many easy armies to learn in 40k, besides Space Marines, Tau, Necrons and maybe Tyranids. So I do have to agree, even though lot's of noobs are pushed towards Space Marines, it might just be for the better... :-\ I am now very undecided and confused.


I started playing Tau three years ago, and now I'm dating a supermodel. Coincidence? I think not.

Current Projects: Slow Process of Ordering Warmachine Models. 0% Done.

I'm the Self Proclaimed Greatest Noob on 40konline!

Offline VTRC

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • M>*
Re: Why do people dislike the Ultramarines?
« Reply #47 on: December 21, 2005, 04:35:36 PM »
I'm just getting back into playing, putting together marines and orks (ork player at heart).  I played a pretty big Ultramarines army in 2nd edition and I chose it because it was vanilla.  When all of my friends were playing orks with the cool rules, and Space Wolves and Blood angels I was relying on sound tactics and entirely regular troops.  Now that I'm getting back into it I don't see the Ultramarines as something to hate, but I am taking the opportunity to fluff out a chapter just the way I like it. 

Chris

Offline vaderhader

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 171
  • Call in the men in Black
Re: Why do people dislike the Ultramarines?
« Reply #48 on: December 21, 2005, 06:16:19 PM »
Every army i do is either needs approval or is very hard to play. But i have never let my self choose the easy way out. This is why i don't like ultra marines. Even my new marine list is not the standard list. If some one writes 1 page of fluff on their army I don't care if they are ultra marines or what ever, as long as the don't power game.

My two cents.

Offline Shades of Gray

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 90
Re: Why do people dislike the Ultramarines?
« Reply #49 on: December 21, 2005, 08:14:51 PM »
I agree with vaderhader that even the most boring Marine army can be made fun to play against if the owner just puts in a little extra effort to make it a unique team, either with background stories, a cute conversion, or...anything, really.

Myself, I accept Ultramarines as a baseline army and don't mind the special attention they get; it gives me more freedom to make up stories about the army I do play. What I DO mind is the hard selling Games Workshop has been doing lately. Okay, Marines are the easiest to start with & build on but the staff at my local GW store have actually criticized and belittled me for choosing Tau over Black Templars. I finally had to stop going there.

Maybe it's just my local store.  :P
"We are men of action; lies do not become us."
- Wesley, "The Princess Bride"

Offline Brother Asreus

  • Brother Captain, Resident Spokesman for Idiots.
  • Ancient
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2175
  • Closed captioned for the thinking impaired
Re: Why do people dislike the Ultramarines?
« Reply #50 on: December 21, 2005, 08:20:32 PM »
It's definately the guys at your store. The guys at my local GW all have different armies and each their own preferences. There's a DE player, Tau, Ork, Eldar, Tyranid, Black Templar, and an Inquisition player. They don't force anything down your throat or criticise anything because it's not SM. Of course they do encourage things like BFM for starters to the game because it gives you a bit of variety without spending tons of cash, but bottom line they don't care what you buy as long as you buy it. They give you an honest opinion about everything. They want to keep players coming back to buy from them and play at their store.  ;)


Cthulhu for Pres in 2012!!! Why vote for the lesser of all evils?

Offline Killgore

  • Guardian
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 495
  • Ulthwe
Re: Why do people dislike the Ultramarines?
« Reply #51 on: December 22, 2005, 07:23:13 AM »
I like Ultramarines, they are old school 40k and i kinda have a army of them myself >_<

what I do dislike though is Black Templairs, bunch of zelots who have beardy hth combat rules, as if there wasn't anouth hth armys in 40k already

Offline green hell

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 681
Re: Why do people dislike the Ultramarines?
« Reply #52 on: December 22, 2005, 02:08:20 PM »
Ultramarines are great! I love the color scheme, the background, those Tyranid War Veteran models are superb! What's so bad about being the poster boy for a fun game?
Out of step, with the world

Offline Grampy Seer

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 189
  • Country: 00
  • "Forsooth! Thou art slain!"
Re: Why do people dislike the Ultramarines?
« Reply #53 on: December 24, 2005, 04:48:40 PM »
Here's why I don't like imperial armies...
Games Workshop has created an army background where hatred, death, genocide, purging, cleansing, and a boat-load of other neo-fascist slang is pawned off as "the doctrines of the righteous".  Now, I appreciate the "tongue in cheek" way that GW has marketed thier material, and in a sense, I can even see a satirical allegory of the development of our world....My concern lies with the ability of the average 10 year old to see, and understand the depth of these allegories.  I think that encouraging hatred, even jokingly, is dangerous.
The fact that the space marine armies are marketed to the youngest of GW's players, is an even greater sin.

I hope I'm making sense here.  My real beef is the toting of the SM's as the universal "good guys"

Rebuttals if you please?  I promise not to "cleanse" you.

Offline sentinel5389

  • Guardian
  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 131
  • fight on!
Re: Why do people dislike the Ultramarines?
« Reply #54 on: December 24, 2005, 05:05:49 PM »
(most likely eldar players),

Dude try not to make it personal. I play eldar and i dont hate marines. Its mostly becaouse as stated there so popular.

And as for the eldar comment i love marines most of our uinits are made for killing them  ;D
Howling banshees/Wraithlords/Starcacnons/BRightlances Etc.
So bring it on Mon-keigh
Thanks for the advice you guys i realy apreciate it! ;D

Offline sentinel5389

  • Guardian
  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 131
  • fight on!
Re: Why do people dislike the Ultramarines?
« Reply #55 on: December 24, 2005, 05:09:29 PM »
Ultramarines are great! I love the color scheme, the background, those Tyranid War Veteran models are superb! What's so bad about being the poster boy for a fun game?

Its becaouse they get the most atention and those people who play other armys and enjoy them like all players like to see new models rules and fun ways to play. But with the main focus being on 1 army it just irritates people becaouse they feel like here being ignored.
*notice that the sm were the first new codex to come out while im wating till march for my eldar one* Not complaining just saying that there the main focus. Wich isnt a bad thing at all but its just viewed that way a lot.
Thanks for the advice you guys i realy apreciate it! ;D

Offline Nuclearfeet

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1144
  • eh, wha-?
Re: Why do people dislike the Ultramarines?
« Reply #56 on: December 24, 2005, 05:15:47 PM »
Here's why I don't like imperial armies...
Games Workshop has created an army background where hatred, death, genocide, purging, cleansing, and a boat-load of other neo-fascist slang is pawned off as "the doctrines of the righteous".  Now, I appreciate the "tongue in cheek" way that GW has marketed thier material, and in a sense, I can even see a satirical allegory of the development of our world....My concern lies with the ability of the average 10 year old to see, and understand the depth of these allegories.  I think that encouraging hatred, even jokingly, is dangerous.
The fact that the space marine armies are marketed to the youngest of GW's players, is an even greater sin.

I hope I'm making sense here.  My real beef is the toting of the SM's as the universal "good guys"

Rebuttals if you please?  I promise not to "cleanse" you.
I see what your saying, but the average 10-year old probably won't understand and be able to compare and contrast fluff in the WH40k universe to anything in real life.  Most 10-year olds don't even know what facism is. 

To most 10-year olds, they are just "cool toys that you build yourself."
<Insert quote here>

Offline Grampy Seer

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 189
  • Country: 00
  • "Forsooth! Thou art slain!"
Re: Why do people dislike the Ultramarines?
« Reply #57 on: December 24, 2005, 05:59:25 PM »
My problem, is that a message doesn't need to be acknowledged, to be received.

Offline sentinel5389

  • Guardian
  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 131
  • fight on!
Re: Why do people dislike the Ultramarines?
« Reply #58 on: December 24, 2005, 07:18:34 PM »
My problem, is that a message doesn't need to be acknowledged, to be received.
I kinda agree and kinda disagree. Granted the average 10 year old wont know what is going on and the politics that are in the 40k universe the hate message is still the same
However.
With the way the media is going i dont think itll be too shocking to them. And thats if they understand it. I mean when i was 10 i was just like WOW GUNS ALRIGHT! *PHEW PHEW* But kids are definatly getting smarter faster these days.

My thought: I agree that the violance thing is very overplayed and should be toned down in a lot of things. however The average 10 year old wont understand why all this is happening. So i do agree with your problem with imperial armys WHEN IT APPLIES TO YOUNGER PLAYERS. But i belive its ok for us over 14 ^_-.
and look at the brightside what kind of 10 year old has the kind og money to start an army? excludeing spoiled brats.
Thanks for the advice you guys i realy apreciate it! ;D

Offline Captain Hajime

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1696
  • 1st Regiment Fuji System
    • Captain Hajime's Warhammer Web site
Re: Why do people dislike the Ultramarines?
« Reply #59 on: December 24, 2005, 10:24:11 PM »
My problem, is that a message doesn't need to be acknowledged, to be received.
Honestly the road that this kind of restriction goes down is not worth the cost. 40k is a universe at costant war. There are no good guys. Leave it at that.
"Men from different wordls, with different views, bound together by loyality to the Emperor. This is what we have become." Captain Hajime
"I have remembered, I do remember, I will always remember."
Imperial Guard, Space marines and Ork Collector.
First Fuji Regiment W: 0 L:     2 D: 4
Tenno No Samurai W: 1 l: 5 D: 7

 


Powered by EzPortal