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Author Topic: Lash and Jaws and Deepstrikers, Oh my!  (Read 1884 times)

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Offline Tomb Spyder

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Lash and Jaws and Deepstrikers, Oh my!
« on: September 21, 2010, 09:55:07 PM »
Hello all.  I have a Cron Battle Force box set, some home-made monoliths, and proxy some stuff for some friendly games against my friend (marines) who is just getting into 40K also.  We both proxy the heck out of things as we each only have a box set.  With some of our things we use as tanks it looks like we are playing with toys.  The group of people who got us into 40k let us borrow a handful of codex's to kind of play around with different armies to see what we like and dislike.  I can tell already how certain armies are far easier to play than others.  Although I have been warned about the Crons lack of serious competitiveness, I think the army is pretty neat.  Its hard to believe how few "perks" we have compared to most armies, but how can you not love the Star Gods?  The people who I am starting to play with are somewhat competitive and been playing for a good amount of years.  As I observe some of the armies and codex's, I can't but help to think of a few questions about defensive tactics vs the things in my posting header.  Does anyone have some good tactics to deal with these things?

Jaws of the World Wolf: With our very poor initiative, how do we possibly deal with it? 

Lash: You know the CSMs are coming with it.  My understanding of the Necrons from reading some very good posts here is that the Necrons have to all work together to win.  Lash takes that link out of the chain.

Deep Strike: You use your Monoliths and terrain to help your frail warriors stay out of sight, and then *BAM* there is a unit of Marines, Termies, or even a Tank filled with Marines right next to you. 

Those are just a few of the many problems my limited experience can see.  We have a guy who as he says he "pulls them out when he don't feel like playing to win"  Ive seen Necrons played a number of times and those seem to stick out in my head as some of the things that has destroyed them.  I am not trying to put the Crons down.  I really want to play them and hope a new codex comes out soon to make them a bit more forgiving, but am I doomed to being just a joke to play against some of these armies like Nids, BAs, CMs, and SWs until it does happen?  I don't want to spend money on armies that I don't have much interest in just to be competitive but I don't want to be a speed bump in the game either.


Offline moc065

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Re: Lash and Jaws and Deepstrikers, Oh my!
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2010, 02:20:02 PM »
First off let me welcome you to the forum's.

Second let me a sure you that Necrons can still be quite good and even competitive if used well. To prove this, I encourage you to go to the Batrep section and cheack out a few of the more recent (2008+) threads that have Necrons featured in them. I took the time to assemble a few together for you (and I can get you more) but these few are just from my own us of the Necrons in 5th ED.

1000pts of TMGM vs SM's 10 Dec 2008
1000pts of TMGM vs SM's 19 Dec 2008
1500pts of TMGM vs Orkz 29 Jan 2009
1000pts of TMGM vs Shirke SM's 17 Feb 2009
1700pts of TMGM vs New IG 22 Apr 2009
1700pts of TMGM vs Space Wolves 31 Aug 2010

As you can see I actually do see a number of different opponents and so far I have not been Phased Out in 5th Ed, and The Mighty Green Machine is actually winning way more games than they lose. This is not because I am so great, By the Way, TMGM is winning games because the Necrons are often under-estimated. Thus you need to familiarize yourself with some of the more underhanded tactics of the Most 3vil race in 40K. If you look in my signature (below) you will see a link to the Guide on Necrons, and there is a host of great info in there that I assembled from many many great Necron Generals. It is also filled with links to more Batreps, guides on how to convert Necron stuff to be even cheaper on your wallet, tactica's, ideas on army usage, etc.

To answer your questions directly.
~~ Jaws is based on the init of each figure it contacts, so your deployment and subsequent movement can actually limit the effect of Jaws to fewer or more figures being effected.
~~ Living Lightning is a gimick if you ask me as he might roll a 1 to only even have 1 chance to effect anything (6's are not so good for the Necrons) but you still get all of your saves, and your WBB's if appropriate.
~~ Lash can be gross if you allow that guy to get close enough to cast it, etc. But tis near useless on things like the Monolith and the Mono can be used to Block Line Of Sight (BLOS) etc. The Lash is also often carried by an independant figure, so some strategic shooting can remove that figure before the Lash is ever an issue. Daemon Princes don't do so well vs mass Destroyer Fire, etc.
~~ Deepstrike is not reserved for Monolith's only, Flayed Ones and some other Necron units can also Deepstirke, so I serioulsy suggest that you invest some time into learning when and when not to use it, and how it can be used more effectively.

I personnally don't find that I need Monolith's all that much in 5th Ed (although I certainly know how to use them - and they are great). the one factor that I feel every Necron army needs in order to survive in games in 5th Ed though is "Shock Absorbers" and fortunately those are abundant enough in the Necran arsenal. Pariah, Scarabs, Tomb Spiders, Monoliths, etc, etc can all be used as Shock Absorbers to pruchase your Warriors a better chance to score/survive a battle.

Feel free to ask me any questions you have or to clarify anything I offered you so far, and once again welcome to the Forums.

PS... Welcome to the "Tomb World" and just remember this for whenever you begin a battle; "may the best man Machine win"

Cheers
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Offline Tomb Spyder

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Re: Lash and Jaws and Deepstrikers, Oh my!
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2010, 06:17:19 PM »
Hey Moc, Thanks for the reply!  I think there is going to be a huge learning curve for this army, but they seem so fun.  Another questions I have is about Scarabs as shock absorbers.   I understand you may use them to slow the enemy down, but when they die, your enemy gets to consolidate even closer to you.  With the toughness 3, they go down pretty fast.  Is the idea to tie your opponent up 1-2 rounds while you retreat or put yourself in a more tactical location, IE cover, out of LoS?  You can take a minimum of 3.  Does that mean 3 bases or a 1 base, 3 wound base? 

Offline moc065

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Re: Lash and Jaws and Deepstrikers, Oh my!
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2010, 08:37:37 PM »
Minimum 3 is for 3 bases (9 wounds)

I use 5 normally, and they die when he assualts, so on my turn I get to decide to shoot, or backpeddle or both, of even to use both and set up another line of Shock Absorbers.  IF they do live then I make sure to have a line of CC monsters (Tomb Spiders) at the ready.

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Offline Kaiju Senso

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Re: Lash and Jaws and Deepstrikers, Oh my!
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2010, 01:11:28 PM »
I can't really help against Lash and Jaws because I've never had to play against them but drop pods can be dealt with a good defensive position. Having Spyders or Scarabs spread out around the backfield and flanks of your army as wide as possible giving no room for the drop pods to land between them and your core of Warriors (or whatever you're protecting). Up front, having something tough and scary like more Spyders and a C'tan usually keeps drop pods away from me. This way you can keep the enemy from trying to get as close as possible or risk a bad scatter (off the edge) or certain doom from multiple Monstrous creatures.

Offline NecronCell2131

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Re: Lash and Jaws and Deepstrikers, Oh my!
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2010, 04:15:42 PM »
 Meh Jaws is not that bad since we get our wbb from it.

 Lash is fairly annoying but use the monoliths and dont ignore it otherwise it will be the last turn and he will pull you off the objective.

 Deepstrike: defensive positions and moving your units away with the monolith or having a good counter attack like a ctan should work wonders on these tactics.
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Offline Spacefrisian

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Re: Lash and Jaws and Deepstrikers, Oh my!
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2010, 05:21:55 AM »
It only handles that last laugh thing not jaws. Both are 2 different things.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2010, 05:25:57 AM by Spacefrisian »
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Offline int main()

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Re: Lash and Jaws and Deepstrikers, Oh my!
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2010, 11:58:32 AM »
...but as we can see from the approx 4 years of 4th edition, you'd have been debunked by the whole world.

While this may or may not be the case, you are now going to be debunked by me :).

This is a friendly forum and there's no reason to engage in the kind of commentary that could be viewed as inflammatory. And besides, your claim is patently false - to this day I know quite a few people that have no idea whatsoever what Warhammer 40K is, and so it is not possible for the whole world to be debunking anyone about anything related to a game of little science magic toy men.

Try to be respectful towards others. This means that, before you hit "submit post" you reread what you've written. Could it be interpreted as inflammatory? If so, take an extra second to fix it. Good behavior is its own reward.

By 'the whole world' I was referring to the 40k segment of the population. I should have stated that up front though, should've known as I was getting into a rules discussion

Anyway, I fail to see how my argument is, in your own words, inflammatory. You could have said I was making a strawman argument, and while I might not agree with that at least I could understand where you're coming from. I honestly don't understand why my previous post is 'inflammatory', as I have not made any personal attacks on the poster arguing against being able to WBB against JotWW.
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Offline moc065

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Re: Lash and Jaws and Deepstrikers, Oh my!
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2010, 02:31:48 PM »
And now that we have dealt with that bit of forum ediquite, lets move on with the discussion.

Put the FAQ link here, quote what your pointing out, etc.

I am on the fence that JoWW does allow WBB as its in the same catagory as the Last Laugh ruling.

Anyway the best way to deal with JoWW is to get a hold of that pesky little Rune Priest and run something like a Scthye through his inerds. Outflanking Flayed Ones also work as some guys like to try and hide from CC by using LongFangs and Distance to screen their Rune Priests. Wraiths can often bag the unit in 2 turns (Turbo - move-assault).

I face a guy a couple weeks aog with 3 HQ figures in his list a 2K, 2 of them were priests and they both used Living Lightning and those peky spotter pets to make sure they got lots of hits/wounds. I was assaulting one guy on turn 2 (and he was done like dinner), while the other guy took a little more effort but he still went down. I was glad that he didn't bring JoWW but in generall I actually find the Lightning is worse as it can kill a number of my True Necrons is short order.

Like I said before though, watch how you line things up, as you can often discourage future use of JoWW by only allowing 1-3 figure potential on a turn, oh and those should not be your best figures either.

Cheers.

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Offline Gutstikk

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Re: Lash and Jaws and Deepstrikers, Oh my!
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2010, 06:57:51 PM »
Rules discussion has been split off so this thread can be left to discuss strategic ways of dealing with JOTWW and such.

 


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