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Main => Background => Topic started by: Boss_Bannednutz on September 11, 2009, 06:08:35 PM
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Was Doombreed http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Doombreed (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Doombreed) supposed to be Hitler?
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This might go better in Warhammer Background...
I think he is more suppose to represent Genghis Khan or some other bloodthirsty warlord (Alexander, Xerxes, Tamerlane, Attila whatever). Hitler wouldn't really impress Khorne that much in my opinion...
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This might go better in Warhammer Background...
I think he is more suppose to represent Genghis Khan or some other bloodthirsty warlord (Alexander, Xerxes, Tamerlane, Attila whatever). Hitler wouldn't really impress Khorne that much in my opinion...
I thought of that too, initially, but the genocide part seems more akin to AH. Conquering vast swaths doesn't necessarily mean deliberate genocide.
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No but at least Genghis Khan and Tamerlane were quite famous for what we now days would call genocide. Just because someone mentions genocide it doesn't automatically mean Hitler, sadly he is certainly not alone in history of performing such deeds. ;)
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I think he is more suppose to represent Genghis Khan or some other bloodthirsty warlord (Alexander, Xerxes, Tamerlane, Attila whatever). Hitler wouldn't really impress Khorne that much in my opinion...
Yeah, I can see why. Khorne seems to favour physical strength and prowess in his servants, something Hitler sorely lacked. But I have to wonder, what did happen to Hitler by the time of 40k. :)
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He became Hitler, In Space! as seen in the Ciaphas Cain novel, Cain's Last Stand.
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He became Hitler, In Space! as seen in the Ciaphas Cain novel.
That was the low point of the novel....
Like Creed being Churchill, or some guy in 40k modelled after Rommel.
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*sigh* Lexicanum.
Khorne was the first of the great Chaos gods to awake fully, and Doombreed was one of the first of his servants. His true name has long been forgotten, but he was once human, a mighty Warlord who led armies which ravaged entire nations on Earth long, long ago. His acts of genocide and murder pleased the young god Khorne, who rewarded him and made him one of his first Daemon Princes.
Since then Doombreed has continued to serve Khorne well. He fought for his master at the side of Horus during the Heresy, and was aboard the Warmaster's battle barge when Horus was slain and the Emperor mortally wounded. Over the millennia he has returned to plague humanity countless times.
The ancient prince of Khorne named Doom breed will sweep humanities finest [sic] and purest to the brink of destruction. Few will fall compared with other invasions, but the cost will be high indeed. His war will be nothing less than a declarationof war upon the Adeptes [sic], staunchest of all the foes of Chaos, and he will be defeated.
But I lament the Warhawks and the Venerators, for they shall be lost.
Khorne was the first of the Great Gods of Chaos to awake fully, and Doombreed was one of the first of his servants. His true name has long been forgotten, but he was once human, a mighty warlord who led armies which ravaged entire nations on Earth long, long ago. His acts of genocide and murder pleased the young god Khorne, who rewarded him and made him one of his first Daemon Princes. Since then Doombreed has continued to serve Khorne well. Over the millennia, Doombreed has returned to slaughter the warriors of humanity countless times, his presence always inspiring bloodshed and war on an apocalyptic scale. Doombreed fought for his bloody master at the side of Warmaster Horus during the Heresy, and was aboard the Warmaster's battle barge when the Emperor attacked and Horus was slain. Of Doombreed's subsequent wars, there is no record.
There you go: all the canonical information there is on Doombreed. Note that the 4th ed. source shamelessly copies the 2nd ed. source and yet still manages to contradict other sources. Classy, GW.
Anyway, is Doombreed Adolf Hitler? *shrug* Was Hitler a 'mighty warlord' who 'ravaged entire nations' and committed 'genocide and murder'? You could characterise him like that. But human history is definitely not lacking in warlords who ravage entire nations and commit genocide and murder, and there's no particular reason to think it's Hitler as opposed to, say, Vlad Tepes. Pick any monster you like. We've got plenty to go around.
Of course, it seems to me that the real point here is that Doombreed's identity is irrelevant. Even he doesn't remember it. Keeping his identity mysterious makes Doombreed more archetypal; he is any and every blood-mad tyrant the human race has ever had to suffer under.
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Well when was Khorne "born"?
IIRC was about the "Dark Ages", with Nurgle coming about during the Black Death and Tzeentch the Renaissance.
So he impressed "young Khorne" - that would (to my mind) imply a Medieval Warlord someone like Khan or Tepes.
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Define young........
Anyway we all know that khorne blessed adolf to single handly win the battle of berlin and take over the USSR in an orgy of bloodlettting.
Not every evil thing is Hitler and in terms of martial prowess I doubt Hitler was that great.............. .......
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I think he is more suppose to represent Genghis Khan or some other bloodthirsty warlord (Alexander, Xerxes, Tamerlane, Attila whatever).
Alexander wasn't a bloodthirsty warlord though; he was an empire-builder. There is an empire of a difference.
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Alexander wasn't a bloodthirsty warlord though; he was an empire-builder.
He was a man who marched armies across the Greece, middle-east and north Africa, conquering the realms, I fail to see how that does not make him a warlord. Sure he might have made nice changes to the scenery and tried to build an Empire but the same can be said of Genghis Khan and Tamerlane, it's just that we Europeans like to consider Alexander as a great chap who mainly built cities and spread the greco-persian culture through out barbaric regions.
This however is off topic...
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From what I recall, the Chaos Gods were said to have been "born" in the 1600s. Now as to whether this fluff should be considered facepalm or not is like always a question of angle.
For example (if the above fluff is indeed correct) then the 1600s could be a random coincidence with the Chaos Gods amassing enough strong emotions galaxy-wide during this period (from all kinds of species), on the other hand, one could consider humanity to be the proverbial drop in the glass, in other words; the extreme emotions of humanity was the last bit of energy the nascent Chaos Gods needed before the reached their hypothetic "critical mass".
If there were no such critical mass, then they could have existed in lesser forms for the majority of the galaxy's history.
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Totally random with nothing to support either side but speculation, but. If Doombreed was so badass, why didn't he try and go slap happy on the Emperor/escort during the final battle?
COOOBBBRRRAAA!!!
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I find it difficult that Doombreed can be Hitler. The beast is meant to have been a bloodthirsty warlord, one of the kind that gets to the fight (at least, almost) in the front lines, more in the likes of Gengis or Attila, or some crusader lords...
For me, Gengis was a keen man, not only lost by bloodlust, as were Attila or Tamerlane (I don't even consider Alexander). Simon de Montfort, on the other hand, actually was the kind of man who could become such a beast. Bloodthirsty beyond necessity, brutal, vain and false by nature, a mass murderer... By his own hands. Had he been killed before Muret, the whole history of the world could have changed (easily), saving a lot of bloodshed...
Hitler was a politician (a debased, depraved, degenerated, foolish one) when he sent millions to death. But he was not a warrior. Not the kind of Doombreed.
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I would've said someone like Vlad the Impaler, or one of the warlords that degenerated into such acts of depravity because they could.
As Dogged says, Hitler was hardly the sort of person that would get his hands dirty.
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The problem with many of these is that they're more likely to become champions of Tzeentch due to their incessant ambition and planning.
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I would've said someone like Vlad the Impaler, or one of the warlords that degenerated into such acts of depravity because they could.
As Dogged says, Hitler was hardly the sort of person that would get his hands dirty.
I like the idea of Vlad being Doombreed, especially with Vlads...associeted myths...
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no, no, vlads body was frozen and became the basis of Sanguinises gene seed, but i agree, most of these suggestions have a tseentchian theme, more decietfull planning than outright bloodshed
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I honestly don't think GW or BL would be so tacky as to try using a real world mass murderer as a basis for some bit of fluff. Its rather offensive and is deeply insensitive to the victims of said butchers.
Besides, why have a feudal Barbarian as a champion when you could use the world destroying upstarts of the Dark Age of Technology? From the accounts in some BL fiction there were more than enough to warrant Khorne's attention.
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He became Hitler, In Space! as seen in the Ciaphas Cain novel, Cain's Last Stand.
I brought up the fact that Hitler in space was ridiculous in another thread and got slapped down hard. LOL But on topic I figured DoomBreed was Stalin. Weird I dunno. But he was possibly one of the most evil men in human history.(Putting hitler to shame).
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Again, though, did Stalin really enjoy getting his hands dirty?
Personally, I think that whoever Doombreed really is, he hasn't been born yet, but may well be born in a few millennia or so, give or take a couple of centuries either way.
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Again, though, did Stalin really enjoy getting his hands dirty?
Personally, I think that whoever Doombreed really is, he hasn't been born yet, but may well be born in a few millennia or so, give or take a couple of centuries either way.
Actually yea from what i can tell from his black hands day he was responsible for a few deaths. But yea I can understand your point on doombreed. But the fun of fluff is in the speculation.
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Again, though, did Stalin really enjoy getting his hands dirty?
Personally, I think that whoever Doombreed really is, he hasn't been born yet, but may well be born in a few millennia or so, give or take a couple of centuries either way.
He was a brigand in the early days of the revolution, fighting for Lenin, I think. He certainly did fight himself.
But really Doombreed always struck me as a man without a plan, more similiar to the Joker in terms of nihilistic slaughter then for any calcualted reason.
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Stalin was 'hands on', at least in the early days. He organised bank robberies to fund the Bolshevik coffers, and lead the defence of Tsargrad during the Russian Civil War (which was why it was renamed Stalingrad....by himself ::)).
Also, does it seem like the Joker would be a follower of Nurgle? You know, a desire to destroy everything with a smile on your face? ;)
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Stalin was 'hands on', at least in the early days. He organised bank robberies to fund the Bolshevik coffers, and lead the defence of Tsargrad during the Russian Civil War (which was why it was renamed Stalingrad....by himself ::)).
Also, does it seem like the Joker would be a follower of Nurgle? You know, a desire to destroy everything with a smile on your face? ;)
I always thought the Joker was Slaanesh(ish) myself. Everything he does is to excess.
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Save the thread jacking guys. ;) Joker would be Chaos Undivided if at all.
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Joker is what the Chaos Gods worship ;)
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Again, modern politicians (even if before they fought in a physical way) aren't the likes of a Khornate bir beastie.
Thinking about it, I've liked the idea that Vlad could be both the origin of Sanguinius (part of it) geneseed AND Doombreed. Didn't they fight each other in Terra? I might be confused but it would throw in a tragical twist...
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Emperor: Malcster! What's up bro? You look stressed.
Malcador: My Lord! I've just heard a very disturbing rumour!
Emperor: Dude, you need to learn to chillax.
Malcador: My Lord, it is my understanding that you intend to combine genetic samples of Vladimir Teppes with your own to create one of the primarchs!
Emperor: Yep. The 9th Primarch. What about it?
Malcador: Vlad the Impaler?
Emperor: That's right. So?
Malcador: Dracula?
Emperor: Duh.
Malcador: The genes of the individual who later became Doombreed, the first Daemon Prince of Khorne?
Emperor: Is there a problem?
Malcador: Khorne - the Lord of Skulls. The Blood God!
Emperor: Ummmmm . . . yeah. Are you going anywhere with this?
Malcador: You seriously intend to use the genes of an individual who was so corrupted by a chaotic power as to become an actual Daemon Prince to create a being of similar power that you will then put in command of one of the greatest military forces the galaxy has ever known?
Emperor: . . .
Malcador: Don't you think that might be tempting fate?
Emperor: . . .
Malcador: . . .
Emperor: I'm going to call him Sanguinius.
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LOL!!
Anyway I don't thinl the big E is that stupid.
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Thinking about it, I've liked the idea that Vlad could be both the origin of Sanguinius (part of it) geneseed AND Doombreed. Didn't they fight each other in Terra? I might be confused but it would throw in a tragical twist...
Sanguinius has nothing to do with Vlad (more than the vampire angle) and he did not fight against Doombreed during the climax of the Heresy as far as we know. Personally, I think Vlad is far to minor to be a Daemon Prince, he's just a nasty ruler over a small country (or county may even be better) on the pages of history, his deeds wasn't especially extreme or numerous for the period, hell they weren't even original it's just that Bram Stoker decided to base Dracula on him.
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Emperor: Malcster! What's up bro? You look stressed.
Malcador: My Lord! I've just heard a very disturbing rumour!
Emperor: Dude, you need to learn to chillax.
Malcador: My Lord, it is my understanding that you intend to combine genetic samples of Vladimir Teppes with your own to create one of the primarchs!
Emperor: Yep. The 9th Primarch. What about it?
Malcador: Vlad the Impaler?
Emperor: That's right. So?
Malcador: Dracula?
Emperor: Duh.
Malcador: The genes of the individual who later became Doombreed, the first Daemon Prince of Khorne?
Emperor: Is there a problem?
Malcador: Khorne - the Lord of Skulls. The Blood God!
Emperor: Ummmmm . . . yeah. Are you going anywhere with this?
Malcador: You seriously intend to use the genes of an individual who was so corrupted by a chaotic power as to become an actual Daemon Prince to create a being of similar power that you will then put in command of one of the greatest military forces the galaxy has ever known?
Emperor: . . .
Malcador: Don't you think that might be tempting fate?
Emperor: . . .
Malcador: . . .
Emperor: I'm going to call him Sanguinius.
Thats one of the funniest things I've ever read on here. And literally lightened up my day ....thank you.( And i dont even care if it was fluff freindly or not. :P Sorry thats really all i had to add.
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There are many conquerors that history has forgotten, if doombreed was meant to be hitler then surely he would have little tash on his top lip ;D
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You guys do know that to some Vald is seen as a hero instead of a villian.
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Oh yes, In many's view he was a freedom fighter against the terrible Ottoman threat. However, it is impossible to refute the fact that he was completely and utterly ruthless. That is after all why he did so well against the Turks in the first place, and why he has become the root of the archetypical vampire.
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Well you know Doombreed IS a hero for a good lot!!!
It just depends on your point of view (or your LOS ;D)
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As Dogged says, Hitler was hardly the sort of person that would get his hands dirty.
Well, no national leader in the 1940's was going to personally lead any charges, but Hitler did see quite a bit of action in WWI. He received the 2nd grade Iron Cross and the 1st grade Iron Cross, which was a fairly big deal. He was also wounded multiple times, shot in the thigh and burned with mustard gas, and received the Wound Badge. After the war he was also personally involved in the Beer Hall Putsch. So, while not quite a champion of Khorne, he had been personally involved in violence a number of times and did get his hands dirty.
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Please do not resurrect month old threads. Let's allow this one to rest in peace, shall we?