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Author Topic: 2000 pts Iyanden Aggression + Alaitoc Artillery  (Read 1228 times)

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Offline The Mattler

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2000 pts Iyanden Aggression + Alaitoc Artillery
« on: November 4, 2017, 06:59:00 PM »
Considering the ongoing discussion about using multiple detachments with different Craftworld attributes, I thought I'd post a list for critique.  Have at it! :)

Iyanden Battalion
Spiritseer w/Quicken/Restrain, Psytronome of Iyanden
Spiritseer w/Protect/Jinx
8 Dire Avengers w/Exarch
20 Guardian Defenders
20 Guardian Defenders
Wraithlord w/Ghostglaive, 2 Shuriken Catapults, 2 Shuriken Cannons
Wraithlord w/Ghostglaive, 2 Shuriken Catapults, 2 Shuriken Cannons
Wraithlord w/Ghostglaive, 2 Shuriken Catapults, 2 Shuriken Cannons

Alaitoc Battalion
Farseer w/Executioner, Doom (Warlord: Seer of the Shifting Vector)
Spiritseer w/Conceal/Reveal
5 Rangers
5 Rangers
5 Rangers
2 Support Weapons w/2 D-cannons
2 Support Weapons w/2 D-cannons
2 Support Weapons w/2 D-cannons
Crimson Hunter
Crimson Hunter

106 PL
2000 pts
9 CP

The idea is to deploy the Support Weapons pretty aggressively, using them, the Rangers, and the Crimson Hunters to limit the opponent's deep strike opportunities and control midfield.  Meanwhile, the Wraithlords, Dire Avengers, and psykers push forward into enemy territory.  3 CP are used as soon as possible to drop the 40 Guardians into firing range aided by as many psychic powers as I can cast.  The Crimson Hunters and any available Support Weapons crack open harder targets and the Guardians shred the softer ones (frankly, though, the Guardians are efficient against everything).  I expect to burn the rest of my CP on some combination of Runes of Witnessing, Guided Wraithsight, Fire and Fade, Celestial Shield, and Feigned Retreat by the end of my second turn.  If all goes well, the Wraithlords reach melee by turns 2-3 with the Psytronome, and the Support Weapons creep forward to maintain pressure.
« Last Edit: November 5, 2017, 11:26:57 AM by The Mattler »
Shuriken weaponry is the pinnacle of antiSpocklizardry in 40k.

Offline Partninja

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Re: 2000 pts Iyanden Aggression + Alaitoc Artillery
« Reply #1 on: November 4, 2017, 08:21:47 PM »
Seems pretty good to me. Great example of optimized detachments using appropriate craftworld traits.

Personally I'd prefer at least one unit of Wraithblades in trade for a Wraithlord. A unit with ghost swords provides quite a lot of attacks. Not sure what the overall wound potential looks like compared to the wraithlords in this configuration though.

Offline The Mattler

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Re: 2000 pts Iyanden Aggression + Alaitoc Artillery
« Reply #2 on: November 4, 2017, 10:25:28 PM »
Seems pretty good to me. Great example of optimized detachments using appropriate craftworld traits.

Personally I'd prefer at least one unit of Wraithblades in trade for a Wraithlord. A unit with ghost swords provides quite a lot of attacks. Not sure what the overall wound potential looks like compared to the wraithlords in this configuration though.
If I were to try to keep the rest of the list as unchanged as possible, I could squeeze in 5 Wraithblades as follows:

-1 Wraithlord
-3 Dire Avengers
-1 Spiritseer

+5 Wraithblades
+1 Warlock

It's doable, but not advised.  For th sake of simplicity, let's say that the available targets are either T4 3+ infantry or T7 3+ vehicles, whichever is more advantageous in the moment.  If the Wraithblades have an ideal time, they get to charge a unit of Marines on their first turn, while the Warlock goes after a tank; between the psychic (assuming no DtW) and fight phases, they inflict and average of 7.99 wounds, paying 25.20 pts/wound.

To compare the opportunity cost of the units the Warlock and Wraithblades replaced, let's have the all the shuriken weapons shoot at the Marines while the Spiritseer and Wraithlord charge a tank.  Those units inflict an average of 10.28 wounds, paying 21.79 pts/wound.  In this case, I also didn't bother to charge with the Dire Avengers or the Spiritseer.

To be fair, if there were just Marines, the Wraithlord's Ghostglaive isn't nearly as useful.  However, if we're being fair, we need to also consider the fact that the ranged output of the Wraithblades is non-existent, and the Warlock is using the crappy version of Smite (seriously, GW, why do Warlocks always suck?).  Also, if there were just tanks, that Ghostglaive stays strong, and even the shuriken weapons stay relevant, but the damage output of the Wraithblades gets cut in half.  Furthermore, since the charges would normally only happen on turn 2 or later, you really start missing the ranged damage from the replaced units.  Speaking of multiple turns, one could always say that the Wraithblades could be pushed forward with Quicken, but remember that the Wraithlord has a faster base movement, and Quick/Restrain could be repositioning the Dire Avengers, rescuing the remaining Guardians, or slowing down incoming assault units.

Finally, with respect to durability, the trade is:

15 T6 3+ wounds

for

10 T8 3+ wounds, 3 T3 4+ wounds, and 2 T3 4++ wounds

This aspect is trickier because it varies a lot depending on the enemy's weapons, but considering how strength and toughness interact, I think I would rather have more S4 wounding the bulk of my units on 6s than on 5s, even if it means some of my units getting wounded on 3s by S4.  Another consideration is that some mid-strength weapons do 2-3 wounds anyway.  Such weapons have trouble getting better than 5+ to wound the Wraithlord, and the extra damage is largely wasted on the squishier models anyway.

Having said all of that, there's at least one style of list where I like massed Wraithblades.  Take an Iyanden Battalion similar to the one above, then add a bunch of Wave Serpents carrying Wraithblades.  Drop the Guardians on turn 1 or 2 as desired, but set up a turn 2 assault with the rest of your army.  However, if I were to build that kind of list, I would consider putting the Guardians in the Serpents and drop Wraithguard (with Wraithcannons) out of the webway.  I don't like the idea of losing expensive models to the 1s I roll after my transports pop.  Youight even consider making the little Wraiths Ulthwe to make them extra hard to kill.
« Last Edit: November 5, 2017, 09:05:20 AM by The Mattler »
Shuriken weaponry is the pinnacle of antiSpocklizardry in 40k.

Offline SeekingOne

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Re: 2000 pts Iyanden Aggression + Alaitoc Artillery
« Reply #3 on: November 6, 2017, 03:38:06 PM »
IMO, there's usually no point in taking Wraithblades at all, for one simple reason: whatever you might use Wraithblades for, the same thing can be easily accomplished by D-Scythes, with much higher degree of reliability. In order to shoot D-Scythes need to get just as close as Wraithblades need to get in order to charge, but they can shoot after advancing. They generate as many or more hits at much higher S. And in addition to that, they also can charge afterwards, and then fall back and shoot again. There's really no advantage to Wraithblades, unless you're planning to use a large pack of Axes as a walking meatshield, in which case it's their ++ save (and not attacks) that matters the most.
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Offline The Mattler

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Re: 2000 pts Iyanden Aggression + Alaitoc Artillery
« Reply #4 on: November 6, 2017, 04:36:46 PM »
IMO, there's usually no point in taking Wraithblades at all, for one simple reason: whatever you might use Wraithblades for, the same thing can be easily accomplished by D-Scythes, with much higher degree of reliability. In order to shoot D-Scythes need to get just as close as Wraithblades need to get in order to charge, but they can shoot after advancing. They generate as many or more hits at much higher S. And in addition to that, they also can charge afterwards, and then fall back and shoot again. There's really no advantage to Wraithblades, unless you're planning to use a large pack of Axes as a walking meatshield, in which case it's their ++ save (and not attacks) that matters the most.
True, which is why I talked myself out of Wraithblades by the time I ended the  paragraph describing the circumstances under which I'd field them. XD  Even in the case of the Axeblade meatshield, I'd prefer taking one Wraithlord (all shuriken) per three Axeblades I might have otherwise used.  They're a little more vulnerable to D6 damage weapons, but the higher toughness makes up for the lack of an invulnerable save, they actually have ranged attacks, and they're better at carving up tough targets.  My only concern with the Scytheguard is my aforementioned aversion to risking them in Wave Serpents, but that's clearly the best option for them.  Between Vectored Engines and maybe the Ulthwe attribute, the Scytheguard should get to their target intact (or at least drain a lot of enemy firepower).
Shuriken weaponry is the pinnacle of antiSpocklizardry in 40k.

 


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