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Offline Fenris

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #440 on: May 27, 2017, 02:03:54 AM »
Assault weapons can advance and shoot is really counter intuitive , because that prevents anyone wielding them effectively from assaulting.
Except for orks, who will be rolling to hit on a 6+.
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Offline Dread

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #441 on: May 27, 2017, 02:12:59 AM »
I was just looking at GW's site. Now it reads to me that we'll have to buy a codices in order to play an army, only the rules will be free. Just my observation.

I hope your right GML. THanks for that bud. I'm getting anxious myself.
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Offline Irisado

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #442 on: May 27, 2017, 04:48:59 AM »
I've already mentioned a couple of reasons.
1. MSU
2. Time consuming
3. Natural breaks/pauses between games
4. Game balance is questionable, I know that this was how it was played a couple of editions ago, but they could have come up with something better.
Say player 1 deploys 50% of his points(either narrative or matched), then player 2 deploys 100%, then player 1 deploys the remaining 50%. (an example just from the top of my head)

1. There's no way of knowing at this stage whether MSU is going to be a popular army concept for this edition.  I think, therefore, that it is far too soon to be concerned about that.  In addition, if you know that you're likely to end up finishing deploying first, you can plan for it in terms of how you deploy your units and your strategy.

2. It may take a bit longer, but in my experience of playing using that deployment method, it doesn't take that much longer.

3. I never paused while my opponent was deploying under the previous system.  Unit-by-unit adds to the tension and makes deployment more engaging for both players in my experience.

4. The alternative you've suggested seems very odd to me.  Either way, they've told us which system they're going to use, so I think that it's better to focus on what the rules are, rather than what they could have been.

Quote
It might not be reinventing the wheel, but when they serve us rules, that I immediately see flaws in, I will be disappointed. Coming up with houserules myself or with some buddies, is still inventing.

You must have been disappointed with every edition of 40K in that case, because each one has had immediate flaws with some aspect of the rules ;).  Thus far, I see fewer issues with this set of rules than many of the others that have been produced for 40K.

A house rule to extend the game by a turn is not inventing a rule.  Inventing a rule would be devising a rule which is new.  All you would be doing by extending the game by a turn is merely modifying one of the rules.

Quote
How an extra turn would radically change the game balance?
- Well, some armies are simply not as durable as others.
- One army may have a lot of more victory points left to score, than the other.
- Et cetera.

None of that strikes me as radically changing the balance of the game.  Also, all of these issues could apply equally to a six turn game.  Etcetera is a word used by some of my students when they've run out of arguments to make in their essays, but want to seem as though they haven't, so that doesn't convince me that there are a lot of arguments to make here ;).

Quote
My issue is not with the reduced gamelength itself alone, it's because GW has come out bragging a game will be much faster now and this is their solution, instead of reducing tedious dice rolling.
To those that claim the game is mostly over long before turn 5, I feel sorry for you since you are either:
1. A victim of a poorly balanced game
2. A very good or very bad player, with bad matchups
3. Having extreme dicerolls, one way or the other.

How do you know that it's their solution?  Where has GW said that the game will be faster because it has been reduced by a turn?  I agree that there is still too much dice rolling, but there has been a reduction in some dice rolling compared to seventh edition, so at least they are trying in some respects.

As for the last part of this comment, you're generalising without having the evidence to draw such a conclusion.  You'd need a massive amount of date from games taking place in all sorts of different environments to be able to draw this conclusion.  Most games of 40K that I've played have never gone beyond five turns because of time constraints or because the victory conditions were met by one side or the other.  That does not mean that what you're saying cannot happen, but it's impossible to conclude that it's the only set of conditions which results in a five turn game.

I think, therefore, that GW is making progress with eighth edition.  There are still elements that I am concerned about, but, on the whole, the changes feel positive, and I do feel as though that if there are any issues, deployment and game length are not among them.
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Offline Looshkin

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #443 on: May 27, 2017, 08:01:53 AM »
Just thought I would let you know what I picked up at my GW today.

The manager had a small selection of the new minis available. Apparently GW staff in some stores were being a bit slow painting new boxed sets; as such, they did a tabletop painting tutorial for the managers so that they could get them out quickly and looking good.

The Primaris is only a smudge smaller than a Custodes. The detail is good, with easy areas for edge highlighting. The painted mini looked really nice using only the basic techniques of a basecoat, recess wash and edge highlight.

The Deathguard were the highlight for me though. The Lord of Contagion had been painted with 6 colours and given a wash; that was it...and it looked freaking fantastic. There will be a new Death Guard Green spray and (I guess) base released. The model had been based using the spray, then leadbelcher for the chainmail and weapons. Details were added with Gorthor Brown, Ushabti Bone, Screamer Pink and a Grey. Everything was then washed with Agrax Earthshade. There is such a good level of detail that it picks out the recesses wonderfully. I can't say too much about how good such a simple recipe gave.

I also saw a standard Plague Marine that had been taken to a slightly higher level of detail (Just an edge highlight on a few bits). Again, freaking fantastic.

The Poxwalker was nice. I can see people producing fantastic results with those guys.

The key thing though, was that all the minis I talked about were painted in under 3 hours in total. I think people will be knocking out entire painted forces in a matter of hours or days...especially the Death Guard, with the new Spray. It looks to be a superb colour.

So, IMHO, GW have knocked it out of the park with the miniature quality on this set. People raved about Dark Vengeance (Specifically the Chosen models)...well this set makes DV look like a set of RTB01 Marines in comparison.

Also, the Manager couldn't say enough nice things about the set of Objective Markers...and he isn't the type to overhype things unnecessarily.

So that's what I learnt today. I hope it is in some way helpful.
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Offline Partninja

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #444 on: May 27, 2017, 08:39:29 AM »
Some more leaks of the core rules pages. More detachment options. It seems most people will be playing games of 4 or 6 command points. 3 just for being battle forged and another +1 or +3 depending on FOC needs.

It appears all cover is just +1 to armor save unless there is another page that further defines varied types of cover. Not sure I like this. Seems over powered for marines, and really bad for things with only a 6+ save.

Links to scanned material can't be posted I'm afraid because of the rules on copyright, so I've removed the link - Iris.

Edit- My bad on the link. I assumed since these pages will be free anway it would be fine.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2017, 10:23:35 AM by Partninja »

Offline Looshkin

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #445 on: May 27, 2017, 12:16:28 PM »
As it's UK Gamesday, they're doing a live blog over on the community site:

Warhammer Fest Live Blog – Warhammer Community

Particularly interesting to 40k fans is the update at 5:00pm. There is a new Marine Dreadnought being released, I guess with a Primaris inside. Immediately below that is a teaser for Nurgle - and I think from the scale of the miniature in the video, it is in all likelihood the expected release of Mortarion.

Looks as they're got some really interesting things in the pipeline across all their ranges.
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Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #446 on: May 27, 2017, 01:49:23 PM »
Edit- My bad on the link. I assumed since these pages will be free anway it would be fine.

They're not out yet. When they are out, it still wouldn't be cricket to post to a scan of the pages. A link to the actual GW rule location would be fine and/or a page from the book as some of us will have. This is especially important for the book only content as that won't be otherwise available and beslubber'em if they think they're getting that for free.  ;)
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Offline Cavalier

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #447 on: May 27, 2017, 03:52:04 PM »
Don't worry, Tau are less than thrilled that everyone now gets to fire all their weapons when they feel like it.  ;)

@Grimsqueaker- lol... I missed your post yesterday. True, true. I didn't even think of that. But I agree whole heartedly.  ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #448 on: May 27, 2017, 04:05:58 PM »
Still, that's half the fun. Stuff changes, we change with it or jog on to something else. I'm still looking forward to the new release to see what we can do with it.  :)
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Offline faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run)

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #449 on: May 27, 2017, 04:21:04 PM »
So I got a quick peak today inside the Xenos 1 index...

Without giving too much away, I will say this:

Points for units are listed in the back of it.

Psychic powers are a d3 table.

Battle focus is very suitable and powerful

Combat drugs and Power from Pain seems good too - nothing broken or useless in either.

Poison is much the same, although now it has the same chance to hurt vehicles that a flashlight would get

The majority of the index was rules, and not a whole lot of fluff.

I am very, very excited for this. Most of what I glanced at looked very balanced.
So, what your saying is it's not your fault you look stupid by using words you don't get?
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Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #450 on: May 27, 2017, 04:49:37 PM »
Thank you for the summary. Sounds very interesting and hopeful for the other books.
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Offline Dread

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #451 on: May 27, 2017, 05:26:00 PM »
Oh my, that dread looks sweet. I wasn't looking for new models but wow. I'll get one for my Deathwing, if that's possible.
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #452 on: May 27, 2017, 08:14:51 PM »
Just learned/realized that the Smite psychic power has to target the *closest* unit. Man, psychic power just keeps looking worse.

EDIT: Some other things of note:

-No more movement restrictions for Difficult Terrain, apparently? Hmmmm...don't know how I feel about that.

-Perils is going to *suck,* unless psykers get a major wound boost. I can see my Thousand Sons flaming out right and left. If the powers aren't worth it, I think the Ksons look like they're going back on the shelf. Again. 

-The formations look fairly staid. You get extra slots in one or another battlefield role in exchange for Command Points, which look modestly useful. Meh.

« Last Edit: May 28, 2017, 09:12:27 AM by Wyddr »

Offline magenb

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #453 on: May 28, 2017, 05:43:52 PM »
Anyone else notice the wording for Transports in the leaked rules?
soo, disembark is now within 3 inches of the transport... not the access point... and you can still "move"... so a Wave S/Falcon is 6-7 inches long, so 3 more in front of that, plus move, plus charge... I think that one needs a FAQ straight out of the gate.

Might have to wait for the full DS rules, but the current wording would mean you can't jump out of a DS transport until the next turn as the transport has technically already moved.


Mortal wounds bypasses invul saves too ouch.

« Last Edit: May 28, 2017, 06:36:17 PM by magenb »

Offline Partninja

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #454 on: May 28, 2017, 06:02:04 PM »
Any else notice the wording for Transports in the leaked rules?
soo, disembark is not within 3 inches of the transport... not the access point... and you can still "move"... so a Wave S is 6-7 inches long, so 3 more in front of that, plus move, plus charge... I think that one needs a FAQ straight out of the gate.

Might have to wait for the full DS rules, but the current wording would mean you can't jump out of a DS transport until the next turn as the transport has technically already moved.


Mortal wounds bypasses invul saves too ouch.

There might be another transport section that further defines this. Or vehicles get free abstract spins on the spot now.

Offline magenb

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #455 on: May 28, 2017, 06:48:33 PM »
There might be another transport section that further defines this.

Yeah I hope so. There just seems to be free moves all over the shop right now (did you see the character freebie move), kind of looks like they have sped up the game by making everything move stupidly fast.


Offline Wyddr

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #456 on: May 29, 2017, 07:51:41 AM »
Well, the length of the transport doesn't seem to be the issue, as you still can't swing the transport around to get more movement, right? (I mean, I presume)

It's still a 3" bonus in movement, but that is minus the movement provided by the transport, which now can't move before you disembark. It's really only a 3" bump.

Edit: Space Marine preview up.

It seems like Centurions will be pretty good (though not necessarily the grav variety). Happy to hear the pred gets some love. Roboute sounds stupid good.

All good things for the SMurfs. Hardly a surprise.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2017, 03:40:52 PM by Wyddr »

Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #457 on: May 29, 2017, 02:32:18 PM »
Pretty much as expected. Some definite multi-wound killers in there as we'd predicted. Even some of the high toughness wound mountains are going to feel the pain quite quickly.
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Offline Partninja

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #458 on: May 29, 2017, 04:45:23 PM »
Well, the length of the transport doesn't seem to be the issue, as you still can't swing the transport around to get more movement, right? (I mean, I presume)

It's still a 3" bonus in movement, but that is minus the movement provided by the transport, which now can't move before you disembark. It's really only a 3" bump.

Edit: Space Marine preview up.

It seems like Centurions will be pretty good (though not necessarily the grav variety). Happy to hear the pred gets some love. Roboute sounds stupid good.

All good things for the SMurfs. Hardly a surprise.

The real point of interest isn't a boost in movement so much as vehicles with only a single access point (Eldar and Tau for example) essentially disembark as if they were open topped now. Again, this is assuming there aren't further section which detail more about vehicles/transports/access points.

Further leaks have surfaced showing the match play points for chaos marines. Just a big list as I thought. Most things are about the same costs, with vehicles being broadly more expensive. A lot of very odd point costs too (as in, they're nit even numbers).

Offline magenb

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #459 on: May 29, 2017, 05:58:43 PM »
All good things for the SMurfs. Hardly a surprise.

I just hope all the new units were play tested as well, SM are looking really rosie right now.

 


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