Topic: 1,500 Semi-Mechanized Battle Sisters

[Kitsune Tsuki]

Yah!  More armylists.  This time a mechanized (mounted) Sisters of Battle army.


HQ
Adepta Sororitas Heroine-266
-Cannoness
-Bolt Pistol
-Master-Crafted Power Weapon
-Rosarius
-Celestian Retinue
--4 Celestians & 1 Sister Superior
--2 Storm Bolters
--Frag & Krak Grenades
--Immolater
---Twin-Linked Heavy Bolters
---Holy Icon
---Blessed Ammunition

Troops
Battle Sister Squad-144
-9 Battle Sisters & 1 Veteran Sister Superior
-2 Storm Bolters
-Veteran Sister Superior
--Power Weapon

Battle Sister Squad-144
-9 Battle Sisters & 1 Veteran Sister Superior
-2 Storm Bolters
-Veteran Sister Superior
--Power Weapon

Battle Sister Squad-144
-9 Battle Sisters & 1 Veteran Sister Superior
-2 Storm Bolters
-Veteran Sister Superior
--Power Weapon

Fast Attack
Seraphim Squad-150
-4 Seraphim & 1 Veteran Sister Superior
-Meltabombs
-Veteran Sister Superior
--Simulacrum Imperialus
--Power Weapon

Dominion Squad-224
-4 Dominions & 1 Veteran Sister Superior
-4 Meltaguns
-Veteran sister Superior
--Power Weapon
-Immolater
--Twin-linked heavy Bolter
--Holy Icon
--Blessed Ammunition

Dominion Squad-224
-4 Dominions & 1 Sister Superior
-4 Meltaguns
-Veteran sister Superior
--Power Weapon
-Immolater
--Twin-linked heavy Bolter
--Holy Icon
--Blessed Ammunition

Heavy Support
Exorcist-135

Total Points:  1431
Total Models:  54
Faith Points:  9

[Draza]

Definetly a few things I would fix

*Canoness, give her a blessed weapon. You get strength 5 for an extra 5pts. It is silly not to take the blessed weapon.
*Give her a Book of St.Lucius for the unmodified leadership .
*Also give her a cloak of St.Aspira for extra protection. Between SOTM, rosarius if your saving faith and a 2+ armour save, she should cause a problem for the enemy.

*Give the Celestian Veteran an eviscerator. Allows that retinue squad to destroy any target in assault.
*Make the Celestians an elite choice. They should only be bought as a retinue if your taking a banner or using the other elite choice for other units.
*Possibly drop the grenades. I'm not a fan of grenades for all troops unless they're given freely (aka Seraphim), up to you though

*Immolator, you should drop the holy icon. With the Canoness having a book, your army has the best leadership possible.


I'll stop right there and ask some questions.
(1) How is this army going to work. It is very unique. Most mechanized units take advantage of the Battle sisters ability to rapid fire at short range (with divine guidance) and their use of short ranged weapons. Meltaguns kill anything and flamers are just nasty. Flamers are great in mechanized lists because you can quickly get into a good position to use them. Your list is heavily storm bolter orientated. One of the few weapons that doesn't fit in well into the whole mechanized list. It doesn't help at short ranged. It is a long ranged weapon, used to advance and hold your ground. It does allow you to shoot out of a rhino when advancing, but the benefits stop there. If your playing a stationary army to make the full use out of the mass bolters, what are the rhinos for? Portable terrain and expensive bolters
(2) The Dominions make little sense as well. If they have meltaguns, you have to get close to use them. You'll want to rush forward and blast away tanks (easier said than done I have to admit). If your using the HB bolters, then your not using the meltaguns (your moving very slowly towards intented targets). If your moving fast, then your not using the meltaguns. Both the tank and squad are expensive, so you want to make good use out of both of them.

Those are my main points about the army. A bit of feedback about how this army works would be great

[Kitsune Tsuki]

Are we looking at the same list?  I dropped all the rhinos, as well as the grenades on the basic battle sisters.

As for dropping the holy icon on the immolater, I presume you only mean on the cannoness' immolater?

As for function, my battle sisters, as well as the the exorcist are going to stand back, and shoot, slowly advancing, when neccesary.  Dominions, Cannoness (w/ celestians) and Seraphim are going to charge forward.  After I disembark (this mainly applies to the cannoness and her squad), the immolaters take out/weaken hordes and larger squads.  I think I may swap one storm bolter on the celestians for a flamer.

If your using the HB bolters, then your not using the meltaguns (your moving very slowly towards intented targets). If your moving fast, then your not using the meltaguns

I plan on moving as fast as possible, to simply get to the enemy tanks, then once get cloer, slowing down to get in maybe 1, or 2, more shots.  After the dominions have taken out the tanks, they disembark, tackling heavy infantry, like terminators, while immolater takesout hordes/light  infantry.

[Tynstar]

I agree with Draza. Several things I see potential difficulties with in your mechanized list. First off, its not fully mechanized. You will find that immolators look good on paper and work poorly in practice with out rhino screening.

Here is a look at things that you could drop to better use your points:

HQ
-Rosarious off the Canoness. Give her the cloak and she is 2+, Spirit of the martyr and she is 2++
-Blessed weapon is a powerweapon with more strength and is built in master crafted. The 5 points you save by getting a cloak will allow you to get a better weapon
-You are doing a disservice to your girls by taking storm bolters IMO. This is a mechanized unit. Jumping out and using a heavy flamer/flamer is far more effective.
-Frag/krak grenades will not be useful until the turn after debarking as you can't charge out of an immy

Immo
Twin-Linked Heavy Bolters
-Ok, you can go this route but remember you can't move 12" and fire with the HB and a HB is more of a stand off weapon than the twin HF. Are you going to charge up or sit back. If you are sitting back your HQ is a waste.
Holy Icon
-Really unnecessary. Give your VSS's and your canonesses books and they get unmodified leadership which is our version of nearly being fearless. The book on your canoness will give you the unmodified leadership.
Blessed Ammunition
-Ok I guess this could be usefull firing into cover. Remember your Immo is FA 11. Its not going to last too long.
Finally, no smoke or extra armor means you just cut down the longevity on your vehicle. Smoke gives you a very good chance to charge forward 12" and surviving the turn.

Troops
-You have 10 girl squads and they aren't in rhinos. They will never last to get into firing range. Your foot mounted girls have an effective shooting range of 18" . Yes you do have SB's but they are just 24" bolters. So you move 6" and then you can fire SB's? You will not see much damage.
-Power weapon on the VSS? Yes she will be able to kill a few marines but she is ws 3 and Str 3 so she is hitting and wounding on higher numbers. The squad has no book so it will break faster than you can make the power weapon of use.

Fast Attack

Seraphim

The squad is very small and it will have trouble moving forward. You can run them behind your Immos but I don't think your immos as configured will last beyond turn 2. I would dump the melta bombs and give one girl twin linked inferno pistols for tank hunting and the other girl hand flamers. I would dump the Simulacrum Imperialus because you already roll 3 dice for faith checks with the special ability of Seraphim VSS.

Dominions
I agree with Draza, they will not be effective. They have a 12" range with the MGs and their Immo has no smoke nor armor to last to get them into position. Everything above on the retinue Immo applies to these as well.

Heavy

Exorcists are a terrific tank. Unfortunately, this list has only one and three immolaters. Almost everyone fields S8 anti tank long range weapons. You have 4 vehicles for them to target so they can shoot a lot of anti-tank at your vehicles.

Please don't take this as harsh criticism. Go ahead and try out the list by proxy and see how it works for you. In my experience, if you go mechanized, you need to have most of your force mounted. 10 girl footsloggers don't last to march across the board.

[Kitsune Tsuki]

I'm sorry, I forgot to edit the title.  I originally had it with everyone in rhino's, but took advice from anopther site and dropped them.  I'll edit the title after this post.

For spirit of the Martyr, I'd feel more...secure with a rosarius.  The problem with spirit is that I may not, in a rare case, pass my faith test.  In addition, I'm losing faith points.  Not that that's the main problem.

I'll probably take a flamer in place of a storm bolter, on the celestians.  Should i do both?  I guess that's an opinion thing, but I want your opinion (obviously).  I'll drop the frag and krak as well.

Your suggesting swapping the heavy bolters for heavy flamers on all my immolaters then.  I can see why it would be practical to do so.  although, to be honest, I've always be skeptical the efficiancy of flamers.  i'll drop the Holy icons, and replace them all with smoke launchers & extra armour.  Would you suggest holy promethium?

I'll swap out the power swords for books on my VSS.  Should I still take Draza's advice and give my celestian VSS  an eviscerator? 

-You have 10 girl squads and they aren't in rhinos. They will never last to get into firing range. Your foot mounted girls have an effective shooting range of 18" . Yes you do have SB's but they are just 24" bolters. So you move 6" and then you can fire SB's? You will not see much damage.

So your suggesting dropping the SB all together, or what?

Lastly, for the seraphim, I mentioned the Simulacrum Imperialus because of the VSS ability.  I'm not giving her a second one. Sorry for the confusion.

[Tynstar]

For spirit of the Martyr, I'd feel more...secure with a rosarius.  The problem with spirit is that I may not, in a rare case, pass my faith test.  In addition, I'm losing faith points.  Not that that's the main problem.

The rosarius is more suited to an Inquisitor who has no other access to inv saves. The cloak will make your canoness a 2+ save. That right there is worth the price of admission. You are assuming you will have to take the AoF frequently. As she is in the retinue, you have celestians to soak up fire. When you need it will be in CC and only if the opposing unit has a power weapon. But you tell me, if your canoness is facing a chainfist which will insta-kill, do you want to roll for a 2+ invul save or do you want the auto 4+ inv save? The squad is very small so you have a very good chance succeeding your SoM. As I said, try it out and experience will show you what works well.

I'll probably take a flamer in place of a storm bolter, on the celestians.  Should i do both?  I guess that's an opinion thing, but I want your opinion (obviously).  I'll drop the frag and krak as well.

I generally take a melta/hf combo in my units. The MG for any targets of opportunity ala dreadnaughts or armor that happen to be near. I think that combo will work well for you because you have a very slim chance to roll under your squad size for DG. The heavy flamer is going to wound t4 on 3's which I favor over regular flamers with no access to DG because of small squad size. I think SB's are not a good weapon in a sister army but thats a personal belief. Some people will swear by them. Its a matter of oppinion.

Your suggesting swapping the heavy bolters for heavy flamers on all my immolaters then.  I can see why it would be practical to do so.  although, to be honest, I've always be skeptical the efficiency of flamers.  I'll drop the Holy icons, and replace them all with smoke launchers & extra armour.  Would you suggest holy promethium?

Its not just a flamer, its a twin linked heavy flamer. That is a whole nother breed of cat. Check out the special rule on that. And it can fire after moving 12" which just opened up your range. The first time you fry a devastator squad in cover will make you smile. I think the promethium is very fluffy and very marginal. They will probably be taking the 25% check when you hit them with the flamer already so its redundant.

I'll swap out the power swords for books on my VSS.  Should I still take Draza's advice and give my celestian VSS  an eviscerator?

I would. Celestians hit everything but monstrous creatures and IC's on 3's. And they have WS4. Its the best unit to take eviscerators IMO.

So your suggesting dropping the SB all together, or what?

I would. I don't think 2 stormbolters (albeit firing 4 shots) is all that hot. Yes you get to fire them and move but they are still just bolter strength. I think the biggest problem with this squad is you have 10 girls in it. They will not do well walking. Sisters are a short firing range army. We shine when we can rapid fire/MG/flame and use divine guidance. The basic SOB squad has no range on their guns. This is why the rhino is so valuable to a sister army. Its all about using your weapons at effective range. And that means 12" unless your girls don't move. If you are on foot, larger squads will help you survive to march across the board.

Lastly, for the seraphim, I mentioned the Simulacrum Imperialus because of the VSS ability.  I'm not giving her a second one. Sorry for the confusion.[/color]

Ah that makes more sense.

[Kitsune Tsuki]

Alright then, editting and updating the list.  I realise that by merging the third squad, I'm losing a faith point, but if it helps me get my sisters across the battle field, I guess it's worth it.


HQ
Adepta Sororitas Heroine-295
-Cannoness
-Bolt Pistol
-Blessed Weapon
-Cloak of St. Aspira
-Book of St. Lucius
-Celestian Retinue
--4 Celestians & 1 Veteran Sister Superior
--1 Flamer & 1 Meltagun
--Veteran Sister Superior
---Eviscerator
---Book of St. Lucius
--Immolater
---Twin-Linked Heavy Flamers
--- Extra Armour
--- Smoke Launchers

Troops
Battle Sister Squad-202
-14 Battle Sisters & 1 Veteran Sister Superior
-1 Meltagun & 1 Heavy Flamer
-Veteran Sister Superior
--Book of St. Lucius

Battle Sister Squad-202
-14 Battle Sisters & 1 Veteran Sister Superior
-1 Meltagun & 1 Heavy Flamer
-Veteran Sister Superior
--Book of St. Lucius

Fast Attack
Seraphim Squad-218
-7 Seraphim & 1 Veteran Sister Superior
-1 Twin-Linked Inferno Pistols & 1 Dual Hand Flamers
-Veteran Sister Superior
--Simulacrum Imperialus
--Power Weapon

Dominion Squad-207
-4 Dominions & 1 Veteran Sister Superior
-4 Meltaguns
-Veteran sister Superior
--Power Weapon
-Immolater
--Twin Heavy Flamers
--Extra Armour
--Smoke Launchers

Dominion Squad-207
-4 Dominions & 1 Veteran Sister Superior
-4 Meltaguns
-Veteran sister Superior
--Power Weapon
-Immolater
--Twin Heavy Flamers
--Extra Armour
--Smoke Launchers

Heavy Support
Exorcist-135

Total Points:  1344
Total Models:  58
Faith Points:  8

Not sure what i should spend my last 150 points on.  I was considering a second exorcist.  Any suggestions?

[Draza]

Are we looking at the same list?  I dropped all the rhinos, as well as the grenades on the basic battle sisters.

oops, sorry about that. Tiredness + misleading title = making full of oneself.
-Grenades was only referring to Celestians however.


New list looks good. Firstly:
-Drop the book off the Celestian Veteran. Save yourself the ten points, the Canoness they're with already has one.
-Also make the squad an elite choice. Allows your Canoness to leave the squad
-Give the squad a heavy flamer instead of a flamer

*Troops look fine.

*Seraphim, I'd give them 2 hand flamers. Two flamers are much better than one. Can use them much more effeciently
*Give a book to this squad as well. They're more than likely to get assaulted.

Not sure what i should spend my last 150 points on.  I was considering a second exorcist.  Any suggestions?

*For extra anti-tank, an Exorcist is higly recommended.
*For extra numbers and faith, a third Battle sister squad can be bought for 150pts. It would be roughly 11 girls with 2 SB's though.

Yes you do have SB's but they are just 24" bolters. So you move 6" and then you can fire SB's? You will not see much

Disagree on the analysis of the storm bolters. If you have enough, they can cause plenty of damage. Being able to move and shoot is helpful, definetly against fast moving enemies and guardians etc. I prefer to use SB for shooting over 16" and standing their ground.

[Tynstar]

*Seraphim, I'd give them 2 hand flamers. Two flamers are much better than one. Can use them much more efficiently

Thats a matter of oppinion. On his first list when I answered his post, he was very light on anti-tank. And he had melta bombs on the Sera squad which only had five girls. IP's are a far better buy and far more effective. at tank hunting.Hand flamers aren't all that effective against Meq's unless you can get a DG off. His original 5 girl squad wasn't the best bet to pass that AoF. Is his list against all comers tourney style or is it going to be tailored when he knows what force he is going to play?

Disagree on the analysis of the storm bolters. If you have enough, they can cause plenty of damage. Being able to move and shoot is helpful, definetly against fast moving enemies and guardians etc. I prefer to use SB for shooting over 16" and standing their ground.

Who is worried about 4-6 SB shots? Six because thats the max you will get in a sob squad if the VSS brings one(not worth the points IMO). Those are just bolter strength weapons. You won't be burning faith unless you can bring all the shots to bear.

I would take SB's if they were S5 Asslt 3 or even S4 asslt4 like splinter canons. I would take them if the whole squad could use them. Then they would have some teeth. Honestly,  I would lick my chops to be facing 14 sisters on foot armed with only 2-3 SB's with any of my armies. My mechanized Sisters would chew up the foot sloggers. The AP4 isnt going to do a whole lot against FA/SA 11. 

At 1500 points don't you think he is going to be seeing a dread or a demon prince or a fex? How about if he comes up against necron destroyers? How effective will the SB's really be?

[Draza]

Who is worried about 4-6 SB shots? Six because thats the max you will get in a sob squad if the VSS brings one(not worth the points IMO). Those are just bolter strength weapons. You won't be burning faith unless you can bring all the shots to bear.

I would take SB's if they were S5 Asslt 3 or even S4 asslt4 like splinter canons. I would take them if the whole squad could use them. Then they would have some teeth. Honestly,  I would lick my chops to be facing 14 sisters on foot armed with only 2-3 SB's with any of my armies. My mechanized Sisters would chew up the foot sloggers. The AP4 isnt going to do a whole lot against FA/SA 11. 

At 1500 points don't you think he is going to be seeing a dread or a demon prince or a fex? How about if he comes up against necron destroyers? How effective will the SB's really be?

Against Necron destroyers, SB would be more effective than meltaguns or flamers. You'll never get those weapons in range.
SB give me extra shots when I'm advancing. When I do decide to stand back and shoot, they provide extra shots which are always nice. Meltaguns and flamers are nice, but you have to get into range. SB are perfect for a big squad to stand back and shoot away. 6 SB shots can kill an enemy or two. Those shots combined with Retributor heavy bolters have been the determing factor of a squad running away (or the very least running away). Standing back and shooting 18 shots is still effective, DG can still be used.
As for your armies facing the Storm girls. I've used the storm girls enough times to see how effective they can be. Sometimes they are the best performing squad I use. If they didn't work, I would've dropped them. In a Mech list I wouldn't use SB, as they lose their value. S4 won't touch rhinos, but I do have other squads you know.
Dreadnoughts are Exorcist fodder, simple. If a dreadnought comes I may evern ignore it, If I have another squad armed with an eviscerator nearby. Against demon princes and Carnifexs, those bolter shells can still be DG. The only effective weapon in this case would be meltaguns.
Yes he will face either of those units, it's guaranteed. He still has other units in his army though. You cannot just give everyone meltaguns because of demon princes and carnifexs.

Thats a matter of oppinion. On his first list when I answered his post, he was very light on anti-tank. And he had melta bombs on the Sera squad which only had five girls. IP's are a far better buy and far more effective. at tank hunting.Hand flamers aren't all that effective against Meq's unless you can get a DG off. His original 5 girl squad wasn't the best bet to pass that AoF. Is his list against all comers tourney style or is it going to be tailored when he knows what force he is going to play?

My comment wasn't directed at his first list. In my first reply, I didn't even mention the Seraphim squad. It was quite clear what he was using the squad for.
My comments were for the second list. Here he has mixed weapons. I believe it's a better idea to use two flamers, especially considering the size of the unit. He is very likely to get DG off. Even without DG two flamers can wipe out squads of non-meqs (and kill 1-2 marines. DG is needed in those situations to seriously hurt a squad). If your going to take inferno pistols, you should take two and prererably have a smaller squad size. In a take on all comers list, I'd still take flamers over inferno pistols.

VSS brings one(not worth the points IMO).

Have to agree. My main beef with SB is the fact you get one in every blister pack. Honestly, for most people it's the equivalent of paying $15 for one model. I'd much prefer flamers being in every blister pack

[NidFood]

I agree with Tynstar on the stormbolters.  True, they will, on occasion, win you the game or be a deciding factor.  Just like, it's very true a Guardsman can solo a hive tyrant.  I wouldn't count on either.  With some practice, it isn't hard to have your footsloggers get into position to use their flamers, and with DG, they roast whatever was there.

On to the army list:
Those Dominions are hugely expensive and not overly durable.  I would strongly consider dropping them and grabbing another exorcist and some other goodies, such as most sisters.

Consider a MC eviscerator on your Canoness so she can instakill T4 HQs.  Always a nice option to have.