Topic: Iyanden: Attacked Kraken, or were attacked by?...

[Ashman]

I was reading through the BGB as I do occasionally (i.e. when I'm supposed to be revising) and I was reading about the Tyrannic Wars (pg 164). It says in there that:

Only the intervention and virtual destruction of the nearby Eldar Craftworld of Iyanden saved the worlds in Kraken's path from total disaster...

Now this was news to me, as in the Craftworld Eldar supplement book on page 4, it reads:

it was an attack by a swarm of Tyrannids from Hive Fleet Kraken that may have rung the death knell for Iyanden Craftworld.

Now these two pieces of fluff are contradictory! The first tells us that the Iyanden Craftworlders attacked the Hive Fleet; sacrificed themselves to save some planets, and the second tells us that the Craftworld was attacked by the Hive Fleet.
So my question is, which is 'true'? Also, any other background on Iyanden (or any other Craftworlds) would be much appreciated as I only got into the hobby in 2000 and I was a nipper (12/13 - I can't remember/be bothered to work it out) back then so I didn't care about fluff.
Cheers.

CM

[-The Reaper-]

I would be more inclined to say that Iyanden attacked the hivefleet not vice versa, as i would expect the seers to have seen the coming fleet and to have got the hell out of the way.. Why would they even attack them unless the fleet would land apon some maiden worlds or something. otherwise the Eldar would have been better off to let the hive fleet continue into imperial space.

[Dinendal]

An intervention isn't always an attack... maybe they only tried to defend the worlds by staying in the way of the hive fleet...and then were attacked...

Playing with the words

Dinendal

[Arun]

Does a Craftworld have engines?

[-The Reaper-]

yes, they are gigantic space ships that have become more worldlike in the past 10,000 years as neccesities require.

I just always found it strange, unless Iyanden was defending something then the nids should not have even seen them.

[Major Arah]

I just always found it strange, unless Iyanden was defending something then the nids should not have even seen them.

Maybe they were sabotaged by someone? I think the fall of Iyanden board game thing should have more fluff on this

[-The Reaper-]

Sabotaged by whom? who would be able to get on board a craftworld to sabotage it?

[-V-]

the most commonly accepted piece is that of iyanden being attacked by tyranids, and that yes the seers were all to aware of the threat but if they had avoided the threat then other worlds and civilisations would fall and it was in their best interest to fight.  so it was a case that Iyanden were willingly attacked, invaded, were prepared for it but did not start the assault considering it was on their own craftworld... surley the battle would have been elsewhere had they initiated the attack

[Major Arah]

Sabotaged by whom? who would be able to get on board a craftworld to sabotage it?

OK Ok my bad

the most commonly accepted piece is that of iyanden being attacked by tyranids, and that yes the seers were all to aware of the threat but if they had avoided the threat then other worlds and civilisations would fall and it was in their best interest to fight.  so it was a case that Iyanden were willingly attacked, invaded, were prepared for it but did not start the assault considering it was on their own craftworld... surley the battle would have been elsewhere had they initiated the attack

Does it say anywhere what they actaully saved? Or was it just part of GW's attempt to make fluff that made no sense?

[Irandrura]

Why would Iyanden attack Kraken? Why intervene?

It's suicide, isn't it? Assuming the Eldar were smart enough to not want to fight Tyranids on the Craftworld, they would have had to have gone for a fleet engagement... even though they had no fleet at the time. Attacking Kraken would be blatantly self-destructive.

And it's not as if they care about the Imperium...

The original quote just says 'intervention'. It doesn't say whether it was willing or not. Iyanden's defeat of the Hive Fleet helped to save some Imperial world, but that doesn't mean the Eldar wanted it that way.

[Vlex]

What's kinda cool about the whole debacle is that the seers on Ulthwé saw the Hive Fleet before the the seers on Iyanden did. That's pretty hard core farsight.

[Ashman]

Why would Iyanden attack Kraken? Why intervene?

It's suicide, isn't it? Assuming the Eldar were smart enough to not want to fight Tyranids on the Craftworld, they would have had to have gone for a fleet engagement... even though they had no fleet at the time. Attacking Kraken would be blatantly self-destructive.

And it's not as if they care about the Imperium...

The original quote just says 'intervention'. It doesn't say whether it was willing or not. Iyanden's defeat of the Hive Fleet helped to save some Imperial world, but that doesn't mean the Eldar wanted it that way.

I agree. It makes no sense what-so-ever to me as to why they intervened (which to me implies that they attacked, so I think that GW has used the wrong word there). And if they were attacked, surely they would have forseen this and got out of the reigion of space?
It's just so frustrating that an Eldar Craftworld (which are uncommon as it is) doomed itself for no apparant reason according to the GW fluff I've seen.
Does anyone actually know why they made such a sacrifice? What was so important about the worlds that they saved?

CM

[sergeantbrother]

I definately don't think that the Eldar are in the practice of sacrificing themselves for humans. And Craft Worlds (and the Eldar who populate them) are about the most valuable thing that the Eldar have. I would imagine that a Craft World would avoid pretty much any danger unless it substancially overwhelmed it.

I think that by intervention, they mean the killed that the Eldar did in self defense more than a planned attack on the Tyranids.

As for why the Eldar didn't see it coming - good question. Then again, maybe they saw something bad coming but couldn't figure out what or how to avoid it until it was too late. Far Sight definately didn't prevent the fall of the Eldar or numerous other bad events for them they would have liked to avoid.  So obviously, Farseers have their limitations.

I wonder what effect the Tyranid Warp Shadow might have had. I always kinda assumed that Craft Worlds were ready to inter the webway in case of danger. I suppose that the Warp Shadow can prevent entry into the webway as easily as entry into the normal part of the Warp. Perhaps the Warp Shadow also negatively affects Farseer's ability to see the future, creating an effective dark spot in the future associated with the Tyranids.

[Aesir Yggdrasil]

After the a certain fleet admiral went rouge with a large cunk of Iyandens warships, the craftworld wasw floating alone inbetween jump points (Webway not being continous). The Farseers figured out the nid threat while the craftworld was stranded well outside any jump location, so in an effort to spare as many eldar lives as possible they attacked first, in waves. Worked well, except there where to many damn bugs...

[Irandrura]

You know it's Yriel, right Yggdrasil? It's hard to tell what's sarcastic and what's not in writing.

What's kinda cool about the whole debacle is that the seers on Ulthwé saw the Hive Fleet before the the seers on Iyanden did.

... or so they claim. There are limits to foresight after all, and it could just be more Ulthwé arrogance.

Incidentally, what's the source on Ulthwé predicting it? I know I've heard it around, but mostly on websites and fan-produced fluff. There's that ranger quote in the Eldar codex, but as I always say, that ranger was tortured, in terrible pain, and raving incoherently. Does anyone else say it?

And if they were attacked, surely they would have forseen this and got out of the reigion of space?

As for why the Eldar didn't see it coming - good question.

Foresight isn't perfect. Farseers make mistakes, and they can't see the future with any sort of clarity. Eldar can and are caught by surprise. This is just one example of it.

[Ashman]

After the a certain fleet admiral went rouge with a large cunk of Iyandens warships, the craftworld wasw floating alone inbetween jump points (Webway not being continous). The Farseers figured out the nid threat while the craftworld was stranded well outside any jump location, so in an effort to spare as many eldar lives as possible they attacked first, in waves. Worked well, except there where to many damn bugs...

This admiral being this Yriel guy that's briefly mentioned in the Craftworld Eldar codex? And the same who is rumoured to become a special character in the new codex?

CM

[Irandrura]

Yriel is already a special character. At least, his flagship is, and that's quite enough.

After all, the guy is an admiral. They don't prance about on the battlefield with shiny wargear and fancy special rules - they've got fleets to command!

Yriel is pretty well-documented, and is my favourite Eldar character, bar none. The gist of it is that he used to the admiral of Iyanden's fleet, but he was exiled after an incident in which he almost let a Chaos fleet threaten the Craftworld. He became a pirate, taking his fleet with him and forming the Eldritch Raiders.. When Iyanden was threatened by the Tyranids, he put aside his differences with Iyanden and returned to save them all from certain death. After that, the Craftworld begged him to be their admiral again, and he agreed.

[Lonewolf]

Ok, first of all, no and i mean no Eldar would sacrifice his craftworld so save some monkeigh!

From the "Doom of the Eldar" Rulebook (yes Irandrura, i know you already love that one  ):

"The first warning the Eldar of Iyanden had of their fate was brought by the craftworlds far ranging scouts... Already a dozen Imperial planets had been consumed... and, although the Imperium was mounting furios counter attacks as and when it could, it would be months until a major Imperial taskforce could be mobilised to deal with the threat. By then Iyanden would have been overrun."

We learn, that farseers are not all knowing. Perhaps the warpshadow of the fleet did hide it as well from psykers. Craftworlds are vessels that can only travel the biggest of the webway tunnels and a slow otherwise. Its totally reasonable, that there was no escape route within reach.

Farseer Kelmon then called in the council, that proposed sevaral things:

- shilding the craftworld behind a powerful psychic shield, to avoid contact
- attacking the nids with the fleet before they reach the craftworld

"Both courses of action were deeply flawed however, because they took no account of the sheer size of the tyranid swarm. It took a powerful speech from the scout Irilith, who had seen the Hive Fleet at first hand and understood the terrible threat that it represented. For over an hour she drove home to all present, that the Hive Fleet was to large to hide from, or for the Eldar fleet to defeat of its own. It would take the combined efforts of every Eldar on Iyanden Craftworld to have any chance to turn back the Tyranids. Even then they might not succeed to defeat the alien menace."

So here we see, that the Eldar could obvisously not run, since that was not even proposed, hide, or let the fleet deal with it. It was a battle of sheer survival, that would have very gladly been avoided.

In the next lines the preparations of the Craftworld are described, recalling the entire fleet, arming every citizen, fortifiying the entire craftworld, awake the Avatar, and the most terrible: awake the ghostwarriors (wraithguards now) (Something they would have never ever done without dire need).

They could not run, so they had to fight. They would have sacreficed a thousand imperial worlds without a second thought to avoid this fight.

 

[Irandrura]

So here we see, that the Eldar could obvisously not run, since that was not even proposed, hide, or let the fleet deal with it.

Especially since they had no fleet, re: Yriel.

[Lonewolf]

Yriel took only a small band of followers withhim, 50 years before the attack, and built up his pirate band from there (still according to the book).
Its quit unlikley that the whole fleet leaves, only because they get a new high admiral...
I mean even Yriel broke his oath never to return, and the soldiers under his command had much less reason to be angry at the council. They also would have had to dessert their families (i dont think that Eldar ships can transport their crew + family + pets + supplies for all those) and friends, rather unlikley if you ask me.