Topic: EO Codex Exodites Project

[Von Lazuli]

Rhoanin, While your ideas are a starting point the Exodite Warriors just don't seem rounded, I mean 10 pts and you get a weapon like that? I am thinking that as a basic troop they would simply have older Eldar technology, cue Rasmus, what came before the Shurikat?

Scouts, these seem fine, except for one thing, CCW and a pistol, on top of the rifle? That seems a little over the top.

Dragonriders: These look good, but maybe move as cavaly and ignore difficult terrain?

Just my thoughts,

Lazuli

[TheMightyPikachu]

shurikens use precious wraithbone, the exodites would probably make due with lasers

on dragon knights

yeah, I think they should be troops

troops aren't just who's the most elite, but the most readily available for battle. For the exodites, the knights are those who defend their people, though they are 'elite' warriors, they are the standing army and most likely to be seen in battle.


8pts for a hellgun plus extra terrain dice wouldn't be a stretch
fieldcraft... hmm, it's a kroot thing mainly though
howabout just +1 to cover save in cover? (no sv in open terrain)



on the scouts... I was thinking that they would be a close combat unit/disrupter, not sniper

maybe a 0-1 elite choice for CWE rangers who have come to aid their terrestrian bretheren?

on the dragon riders...
don't think totally ignoring terrain is right, maybe that should be for an elite or fast attack unit
I like adding +1 attack though
they should probably have a laser lance and pistol though, not a power weapon (perhaps a squad leader could take a power sword?)
fieldcraft for a dragon seems too much though
maybe for a 'light' chameleon-ish dragon in the future...

[Rhòanin]

Um, I was thinking the scouts would be good all-around forward troopers.  Being more inclined to CC than their CWE counter-parts, but still utilizing a long range rifle too ...

So, v1.1:

------------------------------

Exodite Warrior:

Pts  WS  BS  S  T  W  I  At  Ld  Save
10     3    3   3  3   1  4  1   9     5+

Squad: 5-20
Weapons: Ring-rifle -> (S3 AP5 Rng 24" Rapid Fire)
Special: FoF, two dice for Difficult terrain

------------------------------

Exodite Scout/Ranger:

Pts  WS  BS  S  T  W  I    At  Ld  Save
18     3    4   3  3   1  5  1/2   9     5+

Squad: 3-10
Weapons: Eldar Long Rifle (see CW 'dex), Ring-pistol & CCW -> (S3 AP5 Rng 12" Pistol)
Special: FoF, two dice for Difficult

------------------------------

Exodite Dragonriders:

Pts  WS  BS    S    T    W  I    At    Ld  Save
25     4    4   3/5  3/4  1   5  2/4*   9     4+
+5     5    5   3/5  3/4  1   5  2/4*   9     4+

Squad: 5-10
Weapons: Ring-pistol & Laser Lance -> (S3 AP5 Rng 12" Pistol) & (see CW 'dex, may be used with additional CCW)
Options: 1 model may be upgraded to a groupleader.  He may exchange his Lance for a Powerweapon for +5pts. 
Special: FoF, two dice for Difficult, Dragonrider

Dragonrider: move 6" assault 6" in any direction.  Allowed to make 1 extra attack in CC using the rider's statline.

Hows that?  Im sure theres other options we could give the groupleader, like exarchpower equivalents or grenades or such ... ? 

Is Ld9 for the basic troop too much?  I cant decide.

I uped the points for the dragonknights - as they're quasi-modelled off of CWE SSs.  This will obviously need a lot of playtesting before we come up with more solid points costs.

So what else?  Lets get the Troops down well enough before we move on to the other FOC sections.

Oh, and I think this project has warranted a sticky now.

[Rasmus]

Drop to LD 8 and give the scouts infiltrate.

[Rhòanin]

Drop each to Ld8? or just the warriors?

And yes, infiltration for the scouts at ... 20 points a piece now?

[TheMightyPikachu]

ws/bs5 seems too much for a group leader

just an extra attack would be fine
the scouts and warriors would be fine with ld8, dragon knights should keep ld9]

i still don't think the scouts should be using sniper rifles though.

[Flash_hound]

Hello, I found some fluff on the 40k Cantanica... or somthing like that...

Knights



The conditions on the Maiden Worlds called for an adaptation of the farming techniques employed by the Exodites. Armoured suits known generically as Knights were created to herd megalosaurs and other huge dangerous creatures.

Although almost no two knights are the same, there are three main types of Exodite Knights. The Fire Gale is the most common type of knight, tactically able to perform a great number of tasks. Towering Destroyers are a mobile firebase, dedicated to supporting infantry. Bright Stallions, easily recognisable by their four legs, have greater speed than any other Knight. Eldar Knight suits contain a spirit stone which supplies the personality for the machine. When linked to the lone Eldar pilot, this lends Eldar Knights a fluid grace lacked by Human Knights. The spirit stones in Eldar Knights are often ancient artefacts dating back to the time of the Fall and contain the souls of many long dead heroes. When an Eldar Knight links with his suit, he exchanges a portion of his consciousness with those in the stone. This makes Eldar Knights strange characters often speaking in archaic tongues and referring to past ages with unnerving familiarity.

Eldar clans frequently use a combination of two or three classes within the same detachment. The most common mix in Eldar detachments is Fire Gale and Towering Destroyer classes; if the detachment also includes Bright Stallion Knights, it means the Stallions can't make use of their superior speed (See also Exodites; Maiden Worlds; Spirit Stones).

-I would like to help join the project.  If that is O.K. with you guys. 

[Flash_hound]

Sorry that interupted the flow here is what I think it should be like going along with what you have said so far.  I think the warriors or basic guys should have I:5.  Think about it the have the natural Eldar speed plus they have spent their whole life working in fields and streams and hearding animals. O.K. well here is what my interprataion fluff wise would be.

Troops:

------------------------------

Exodite Warrior:

Pts  WS  BS  S  T  W  I  At  Ld  Save
10     3    3   3  3   1  5  1   8     5+

Squad: 5-20
Weapons: Ring-rifle -> (S3 AP5 Rng 24" Rapid Fire)
Special: FoF, two dice for Difficult terrain

------------------------------

Exodite Scout/Ranger:

Pts  WS  BS  S  T  W  I    At  Ld  Save
20     3    4   3  3   1  5  1/2   9     5+

Squad: 3-10
Weapons: Eldar Long Rifle (see CW 'dex), Ring-pistol & CCW -> (S3 AP5 Rng 12" Pistol)
Special: FoF, two dice for Difficult, Infilitrate

------------------------------

Exodite Dragonriders:

Pts  WS  BS    S    T    W  I    At    Ld  Save
20     4    4   3/5  3/4  1   5  2/4*   9     4+
+5     5    5   3/5  3/4  1   5  2/4*   9     4+

Squad: 5-10
Weapons: Ring-pistol & Laser Lance -> (S3 AP5 Rng 12" Pistol) & (see CW 'dex, may be used with additional CCW)
Options: 1 model may be upgraded to a groupleader.  He may exchange his Lance for a Powerweapon for +10pts. 
Special:FoF, two dice for Difficult, Dragonrider, You may choose the dragon they ride upon from the list bellow.

(Can't really keep but kept for convienence.)Dragonrider: move 6" assault 6" in any direction.  Allowed to make 1 extra attack in CC using the rider's statline.

Dragon 1 (Whatever Name)
Pts  WS  BS    S    T    W  I    At    Ld  Save
10      3    0     4    4    1  4    1      7     6+

Weapons: Teeth and Claw

Special Rules:
Dragons:  This is one of the mighty beasts the Dragon Riders ride upon.  The Dragon gets an attack in CC but does not get an extra attack for charging.

Cavalry:    For all intent and purposes a dragon is cavalry and gets the bonuses that a cavalry unit gets in the rule book.

Special Dragon Cavalry:  This dragon has grown up with the dragon rider and they share a large bond.  In battle if they share LD using the higher of the two.  If shot at you may allocate the saves between the Dragon and the rider.  If the dragon dies the dragon rider falls off and is considered to become his own seprate unit.  If another person dragon dies too then they join the unit.  Although the dragon rider takes a S:5 hit.  He may FoF as above if off the dragon.  The rider may join any unit as if independent.

Dragon 2 (Whatever Name)
Pts  WS  BS    S    T    W  I    At    Ld  Save
15     4    0     4    5     1  3    1      7     5+

Weapons: Teeth and Claw

Special Rules:
Dragons:  This is one of the mighty beasts the Dragon Riders ride upon.  The Dragon gets an attack in CC but does not get an extra attack for charging.

Cavalry:    For all intent and purposes a dragon is cavalry and gets the bonuses that a cavalry unit gets in the rule book.

Special Dragon Cavalry:  This dragon has grown up with the dragon rider and they share a large bond.  In battle if they share LD using the higher of the two.  If shot at you may allocate the saves between the Dragon and the rider.  If the dragon dies the dragon rider falls off and is considered to become his own seprate unit.  If another person dragon dies too then they join the unit.  Although the dragon rider takes a S:5 wound.  He may FoF as above if off the dragon.  The rider may also join any unit as if independent.

Flying Dragon 1 (Whatever Name) 0-2
Pts  WS  BS    S    T    W  I    At    Ld  Save
16     4    0     3    3     1  5    2      7     5+

Weapons: Teeth and Claws

Special Rules:

Follows all special rules except for that of cavalry.  Here are the additional special rules.

Fly:  This dragon can fly above the ground at great speeds.  The model upon this dragon can move 15" and can charge 6" as normal.  Half the riders rounded down may opt to exchange their weapons for a long rifle at +5 pts. per model.

Falling O' NO:  If the riders mount is destroyed then the person takes S10 hit with no armor saves allowed.  This represents the great distance he falls.

Fast Attack:  If this dragon is chosen then the squad becomes fast attack.


So what do you think.  I know it is alot of rules to remember but there are millions of diffrent Geno's of dragons.  I think it would be cool if we made rules for a drong generater.  I would do it if you guys wanted.  Althoug I am not to sure what I would do I have an Idea.  It would kindof be like the tyranid monstrosity rules except a little diffrent.  Well hope you like my Idea.

[Rhòanin]

While it would be important to differentiate between dragon species, Im not convinced your way is the most effcient.   Why not simply have however many different kinds of dragon knights as there are different species - 'cause more than likely each genotype of dragon will be used for different things ...

One other thing: differentiating between the rider and mount will make things very very difficult.  Especially having the rider possibly survive if the mount is hit.  You would then quickly have a mixed squad of mounted and non-mounted and it could get messy IMO.

What do the others think?

[Dark Flame]

  I think that having a different statline for the rider and the mount is a bad idea.  Just make a rule that the Dragon gets an extra attack at WS - and S - and leave it at that, so when the rider dies, the Dragon runs off or dies as well.
  Also, the Exodite Warriors are to expensive.  They are the same pretty much as Dark Eldar Warriors, but with worse stats.  Either make them a bit better, or drop the price a bit.

[TheMightyPikachu]

or to make it even simpler, have dragons add +1 attack, plus their mode of movement (sprinting or flight)

though, something like... an extra ws3 s3-4 i3 attack each wouldn't be too hard to keep track of, would it?

On the exodite warriors...
i5... seems unessissary...
I think 8pts with guardian stats and DE guns,
plus an extra die for Diff. Terrain
PLUS +1 to cover sv when in cover (NONE in the open, this based on skill alone, not the skill+technology of rangers)
AND, always count as carrying plasma grenades (experts of combat in dense terrain, or they always carry plasma grenades, or they deftly move over any obstacles their foes hoped to have an advantage with)

so you've got 8pts for 'worse' warriors that are alot more mobile, and more survivable in dense ground.
mayhaps... make them get ccw & pistols for free by turning in their guns?

on the scouts... unit size like... 3-10
the scouts will infiltrate, have extra dice like the 'normal' exodites
plus they'll have chameleon cloaks, so they've got 6+ cover in the open.
but I don't think 'copying' rangers is what we'd want to do...
so, make them more hth oriented? ccw's/pistols, plus a few assault guns for upgrades?

My Idea for the grunt trooper on foot...
Exodite Manse Guard
pts-8              ws bs s t w  i   a  ld  sv
                        3  3  3 3 1 4   1  8   5+
Brave+8pts      4  3  3 3 1 4   1  8   5+
armed with either eldar lasguns or eldar laspistols and ccw's

[Dark Flame]

  I think TMP has the best idea, but when you're a brain in a jar, that isn't hard.
  Now, we need HQs, Elites, and the like.
  How about this for an Elite choice:

  Terrain Masters (Another name should be found)
Points  Ws  Bs  S  T  W  I  A  Ld  Sv
  20       4    3   3  3   1  5  2   9   5+

Equipment:  Poisoned Knives

Options:  Models may throw their knives for +2 points per model.  Models may take stronger poisons in their knives for +2 points a model.


Special Rules:  Extra Dice in Difficult Terrian, +2 to all cover saves, Hidden Set up (As Tyranid Lictor/DE Mandrakes), Infiltrators.

  Poisoned Knives:  Using poisons taken from many native plants, knives can turn into deadly weapons, killing with a single prick.  In games terms, models equiped with them wound on a 3+ in close combat, or when throwing knives.

  Stronger Poison:  When equiped with stronger poison, attacks in hand to hand or from thrown knives wound on a 2+.

  Thrown Knives:  If a model can throw knives, they may throw two knives a turn in the shooting phase.  Choose and enemy squad up to 12" away, and roll to hit using the models Bs.  To wound rolls depend on the strength of the poison in the knife.  Under the TAR, thrown knives do not make you lose your charge bonus, but if you charge, you must charge the squad your knives were thrown at.

EDIT:  Add in some kind of unit Champion aswell.

[Flash_hound]

What I was saying was just an example of the many ways we could get diffrent types of flying or normal dragons.  I just thought it would be cool not to have a very stricked list considering the fact that everyone lives on diffrent bases on thousands of planets.

Here is an Idea for a HQ

0-1 King (or whatever you want to call it)

Points  WS  BS  S  T  W  I  A  LD  SV
 150      5     5   4  3  3  6  3  10  3+

Weapons: Choose out of Armory, Tontoory Flaming Sword

Options: May opt to take a royal bodyguard.

Special Rules:

Independent Charactor:  Follows all the rules for an independent Charactor

Tontoory Flaming Sword:  A very rare sword that is granted to kings.  It sets aflame in combat burning through an opponents whole force.  It is powered by the world spirit itself and can never be destroyed unless the world spirit is destroyed with it.  In game terms it is a power weapon that gives +2 str.  It may also shoot a spout of flame once per combat.  Here are the flames statistics.  It shoots two jets of flame.

Range: Flame Str: 5 AP: 3 Assault 2


Royal bodyguard
Points  Ws  Bs  S  T  W  I  A  Ld  Sv
  15       5    4    3  3  1  5  2  10  3+

?
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?
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?

[Rhòanin]

So, in an effort to keep our project semi-organized, heres what we have so far:

------------------------------

Exodite Warrior:

Pts  WS  BS  S  T  W   I  At  Ld  Save
8      3    3    3  3   1   4  1   8     5+

Squad: 5-20
Weapons: Ring-rifle, plasma grenades
Options: the entire squad may exchange their Ring-rifles for a Ring-pistol & CCW.
Special: FoF, two dice for Difficult terrain, +1 to any coversave (no benefit in the open)

------------------------------

Exodite Scout/Ranger:

Pts  WS  BS  S  T  W  I     At     Ld  Save
20     4    3   3  3   1  5   2/3*   9     5+

Squad: 3-8
Weapons: Ring-pistol & CCW, plasma grenades
Options:
One model in the squad may exchange their Ring-pistol & CCW for each of the following: Ring-pistol & Powerweapon +5 pts, Plasma-pistol & CCW +5 pts, Eldar Long-rifle +0 pts (any number of scouts may purchase the Long-rifle)
The entire squad may be given Haywire grenades for +2 pts per model
Special: FoF, two dice for Difficult terrain, +1 to any coversave (no benefit in the open), Infiltrate

------------------------------

Exodite Dragonriders:

Pts  WS  BS   S     T     W  I    At     Ld  Save
24     4    4   3/5  3/4   1   5  2/4*   9     4+
+4     4    4   3/5  3/4   2   5  2/4*   9     4+

Squad: 5-10
Weapons: Laser Lance & CCW, plasma grenades
Options: One model in a squad may be upgraded to a groupleader.  She may exchange her Lance for a Powerweapon for +10 pts. 
Special: FoF, two dice for Difficult terrain, +1 to any coversave (no benefit in the open), Dragonriders

Dragonrider: move 6" assault 6" in any direction. +1 T.  Allowed to make 1 extra attack in CC using the rider's statline (included in the profile above).

------------------------------

Armoury:

Ring-rifle: S3 AP5 Rng 24" Rapid Fire
Ring-pistol: S3 AP5 Rng 12" Pistol
Plasma-pistol: S7 AP2 Rng 12" Pistol  NO OVERHEAT
Eldar Long-rifle: see CW codex
Laser Lance: see CW codex

So, we've got the basics down?  It looks good from here - I cant wait to try out those dragon knights, 6 attacks on the charge with S5? should be impressive.  But balanced Id say.

So we're on to the fun stuff ... Elites and HQ.  I fear we will quickly see CC mostrosities and ranged demi-gods appear in these sections.  Try to keep the stuff toned down mates, its better to have someone say "you need to beef them up, or tone down their points" than to have a super-eldar fighting machine.

That, and please go read/reread the Fluff that Rasmus and Lomendil provided; lets stay as close as we can to how GW may end up designing an Exodite codex someday.

   - Rhòanin

[Colonel Tangerine]

I'd like to help guys, if it's okay with you

I like Dark Flames idea for the elites, gives the army a bit more character

However, I think they're a bit powerfull for their point cost. I would propose their armour save be brought down to 5+, as terrain master surely couldn't have bulkier armour then their Warrior bretheren? Maybe there should be a slight points decrease to acount for this

Squad size 3-10, and maybe limit them to one of the knife upgrades listed

Unit Champion:

+1 BS, +1A, +7 points, acess to armoury

Overall, a nice unit. Fragile, but deadly when used effectivly

Also, a possible Armoury entry:

Scion of the World Spirt: Part of the world spirt is transfered to a jeweled necklace worn around the neck of the bearer, and gives to whole group a great desire to defend their home. The unit may re-roll all failed leadership, morale, and pinning tests

[Rhòanin]

You're welcome to join us, Lateralus.

I love the Armoury entry.  I suppose we should start collecting armoury ideas, for HQs and squad leaders.  What do the others think of the Scion of the World Spirit?

[Dark Flame]

  Well, in the sake of game balance, the points cost for my entry has gone up, and the armour save lowered to 5+.  Anyone have any more comments on them?
  The troops choices all look good as they are, though I think that there should be some sort of choice for the Dragon type, but then again, there will probably be some in Fast Attack as well.

[Colonel Tangerine]

Where did the points costs for the Terrain Masters go up?

Also I was thinking, would 10 points be good for the Scion? Or should it be higher?

[Rhòanin]

Yeh, I figure the Elites, FA and HS could each have a different dragon type if we wanted to have that many different species.

But lets not get too far ahead of ourselves.   

[Dark Flame]

Where did the points costs for the Terrain Masters go up?

Also I was thinking, would 10 points be good for the Scion? Or should it be higher?

  I am going to assume you mean why.  I uped the cost because the numerous special abilities made them fairly overpowered, even when the armour save is 5+.  If more people think they should go down though...
  I think 10 points sounds about right for the Scion.